Man! Congratulations! Move forward to next level now! Great Job!
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
There’s a good bit of hitching/ramping going on towards the end of the set. Surprised no one has brought that up yet.[/quote]
You mean, on the last rep?
[quote]cbocchese wrote:
Man! Congratulations! Move forward to next level now! Great Job![/quote]
Obrigado, cara! Everyone needs to stop patting me on the back, though, or I’ll get complacent and not improve further! 
[quote]patricio2626 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
There’s a good bit of hitching/ramping going on towards the end of the set. Surprised no one has brought that up yet.
You mean, on the last rep?[/quote]
There was some hitching going on with the later reps in the set, but the last rep was very blatant.
TO OTHER POSTERS!
The OP specifically mentioned he was worried about lower back health. Take that into consideration when commenting. If some of you wouldnt offer constructive criticism on these deadlifts what would he have to do for you to speak up. He didnt ask, “Do you think Im strong”? He asked for real constructive advice. With that being said, this is what I think.
Your very strong, thats for sure. As far as good form, its not great. If you were a powerlifter, and understood you had a very good chance of getting hurt sooner or later when pushing yourself, I would say just keep going for it. But to me it looks like your hamstrings and or glutes need more stretching. You manhandled that weight while your back wasnt in its strongest postion.
If you get the flexibility to lock your back you will be even stronger. Now there is a point when pushing your max you will have deadlifts that look as if you dont have the flexibility just because of the weight you are lifting. But I dont think you are at that point yet.
If you want to do very strong, safe deadlifts, you should have the flexibility of an Olympic lifter, because essentially, its the same flexibility required to initiate the clean, snatch, or deadlift.
If you added a video of yourself deadlifting 315 for 5, we could really get an idea of what you need to work on because that weight is light enough for you that it shouldnt, in and of itself, cause form problems. I bet there will be problems even with 315 because your first few reps here had issues.
If you are really concerned about lower back health, I would not keep doing deadlifts with this form. Strongmen type competitors would have nothing wrong with that form, but its not a good technical aka SAFE deadlift.
Some of the other posters mentioned upper back strength, and that may need work as well, but unless you work on your hamstrings and or glutes, your pelvis will not be able to rotate so you can lock your back. This will effect the whole chain right up to the upper back.
If I were you I would make sure I was capable of deadlifting say 225-315 with excellent form. If you cant deadlift those weights with pristine form, being that far from your max, then they are inefficient enough to keep you from reaching your full potential. Once you have the flexibility, its really your deciscion to push the weight to the point where you cannot maintain good form keeping your back in mind.
Shadow: Thanks for the spot-on recognition of my concern; this is along the lines of what I was wanting to know. I know how to get stronger, etc., but am new to deadlifting and am aware that the risk of injury is higher than that of other movements. I hope you’re really experienced enough to correct my technique. Now, as far as ham flexibility, I’m well beyond that of most men, as I did TKD for many years (I can put my palms flat on the ground with my legs locked). What exactly do you mean by ‘lock my back’? Also, I can post a video of 315 x 5 if that will help.
Much like a jump shot in basketball and a swing in baseball, when you really nail a deadlift, it has a characteristic look to it. Now like I said, you can have the capability to do that great deadlift, but be using a weight so heavy that you get pulled out of proper form so to speak.
When you hit the deadlift well, there is that look of hip extension, and even more importantly the back looks like a rigid lever as it begins to take the weight the picture I added below demonstrates this. This is unmistakable once you know what to look for. Also, when you feel the back take the weight in a locked position, it is quite a different feel.
There are a few things that can make this difficult if not impossible to do.
#1- You lack sufficient flexibility in your Glutes and or hamstrings. (Hip Flexors, most notably TFL can cause issues at times, but these are less common, an easier fix, and less of a problem most times)
#2- You arent actively pushing holding your pelvis in that anterior tilt. Even if you have the flexibility, you have to lock your pelvis in position so you can get into your hamstrings and glutes.
#3- Once you gain the flexibility and the know how to push into those muscles, you need to start with a bit of a lighter weight so your body learns the new position and is strengthens itself a bit before you bump the weight up again.
Look at this picture below. Now the bar is just breaking the floor, but she is basically at the beginning of a deadlift. Her butt is sticking out held in that anterior tilt, which means the back is in a solid, neutral position, and just as important, the glutes and hamstrings are being stretched as a result of the hips being held in that position. Now she has access to those muscles. Sure she is very compact and very short I imagine, but you still want to be able to get into this position to some degree.
The first rep you did was pretty good, it had a bit of that characteristic look. It seems you have a bit of a problem replicating your form after the first rep. This could be because your body doesnt feel like it has enough tension on the posterior chain unless it keeps the hips high, this indicates inflexibility, if it isnt the hamstrings it could be the glutes. Now as I said before, it could be that the weight is too heavy for you to keep that form, that could be… but your back seemed to hold up pretty strong over the set, which makes me think the problem is with the glutes or hammies. Post a video of you doing 315 for 5 and we will see what they look like, if you cant develop the tension to squeeze your self out of the hole with that weight then you need some flexibility work. Also, try to see if you can get a camera angle directly from the side.
Alot of this boils down to not having the ability, for one reason or another, to squeeze the weight off the floor. Your body obviously has the strength, but it cant develop the force at the joint angles the deadlift starts with, thus it immediately goes to where it can generate the force.
OK, I’ll do that. I know the angle was a little off, and it was becaue of the placement of the equipment at the Golds I go to. I’ll get another video with lighter weight at Anytime Fitness and report back in a few days (lower back still sore right now).
I thought it was good, maybe just cut down on the amount of reps add more weight that way you will get stronger.(my experience people tend to get hernias from exhaustion not somuch of weight)
If I was going to give any advice just keep your back straight or arched-in(I had no concerns with your form on this)and as the bar passes the knee;focus on just pushing your hips out instead of lifting and keep the abs tight.
I am impressed good work.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
patricio2626 wrote:
Update: Went barefoot today and made more of an effort to lean back and get more drive with my legs, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot. I just scraped my shins and made it a little more akward for myself, but I did get 405 x 10 with a clean 10th rep this time.
I wouldn’t do anything too drastic to your stance or technique. Your form was fine in your first video and it got you to 405x10. Now that’s not world class, but it’s fairly strong and good enough to show that you know how to lift and make gains.
If anything, I would just make slight tweaks here and there and learn what helps and what doesn’t.[/quote]
I agree with this guy. Your deadlift does not need to be messed with much, if at all. You lift a lot of weight in that position and your early reps weren’t bad at all.
I think your form will be cleaned up by good assistance work. Just hit the glute-ham raise hard and often and maybe throw in a few back extensions for good measure.
LB position seemed decent except for the last rep, usually it is better to set those down then do them with crappy form because they don’t really count anyway. I would suggest using a closed grip (thumb opposite fingers) with the straps as that will transfer better to when you don’t wear straps.
But biggest thing is you are getting into the habit of hitching the weight the last inch or two. I think you hitched from rep 4 on. It starts as minor and then gets worse. Try to pull through smoothly, the bar should be sliding up your thighs. I think if you keep doing this it will become a major habit and you will hitch all of your heavy deads. I don’t think your hips need to be much lower, but keep your chest up and scapula retracted/depressed better. I think you are hitching because you have to get your chest/shoulders/upper back into locked position because it isn’t quite there on the way up.
Nice effort, 405x10 is a good accomplishment.
on the first rep you have your elbow bent and you straighten the arm on the way up. This is a good way to tear a bicep. It looks like your other reps are ok but it is because you do not reset between.
I fear that if you start to reset like some mentioned (and you should) you will do this on every rep.
Have the arm straight before you start.
*edit: i should add, it looked good, i just happened to see that.
[quote]patricio2626 wrote:
Update: Went barefoot today and made more of an effort to lean back and get more drive with my legs, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot. I just scraped my shins and made it a little more akward for myself, but I did get 405 x 10 with a clean 10th rep this time. [/quote]
seems like improvement to me, bro.
[quote]CDQAR24 wrote:
patricio2626 wrote:
Update: Went barefoot today and made more of an effort to lean back and get more drive with my legs, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot. I just scraped my shins and made it a little more akward for myself, but I did get 405 x 10 with a clean 10th rep this time.
seems like improvement to me, bro.[/quote]
Yeah, but not enought of an improvement that I can pin it on the change in technique for sure.
[quote]patricio2626 wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
patricio2626 wrote:
Update: Went barefoot today and made more of an effort to lean back and get more drive with my legs, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot. I just scraped my shins and made it a little more akward for myself, but I did get 405 x 10 with a clean 10th rep this time.
seems like improvement to me, bro.
Yeah, but not enought of an improvement that I can pin it on the change in technique for sure. [/quote]
Perhaps not, but like so many of the coaches have said before…improvement IS improvement. Whether it be same effort in less time, more overall volume, etc.
Now I’m not as strong as you are, but I’m really anjoying the Olys these days and I have to totally concur with Shadow. Biomechanics accounted for, I really think you should try to emulate the start position he showed you in that picture. I have to agree with the part of you probably need to work on your hip mobility.
My .02 would be to lighten your load (for now), dedicate some time to learning the power clean, power snatch and develop a love for the front squat. These three movements (more than anything else I’ve used) have really improved my hip mobility (I’m 37) and I feel have given me a “better” DL. Sure when I was younger I was able to rake 565, but my form sucked and my body was able to recover WAAYYY faster. These days I’m happy getting singles at 405 with my best version of proper form (again, see picture).
Shadow has it right when he says that the lift will FEEL so different when done correctly. For me, its a glute/ham with a little bit of upper quad thing where my upper body just sort of folds backward and upright with almost a ‘pop’ when I lock out. More of a ‘one smooth motion’ than a series of movements to get fully upright. Does any of that makes sense? Hope its helpful.
**edit–I just remembered this article. If you haven’t read it, please check it out.
[quote]CDQAR24 wrote:
patricio2626 wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
patricio2626 wrote:
Update: Went barefoot today and made more of an effort to lean back and get more drive with my legs, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot. I just scraped my shins and made it a little more akward for myself, but I did get 405 x 10 with a clean 10th rep this time.
seems like improvement to me, bro.
Yeah, but not enought of an improvement that I can pin it on the change in technique for sure.
Perhaps not, but like so many of the coaches have said before…improvement IS improvement. Whether it be same effort in less time, more overall volume, etc.
Now I’m not as strong as you are, but I’m really anjoying the Olys these days and I have to totally concur with Shadow. Biomechanics accounted for, I really think you should try to emulate the start position he showed you in that picture. I have to agree with the part of you probably need to work on your hip mobility.
My .02 would be to lighten your load (for now), dedicate some time to learning the power clean, power snatch and develop a love for the front squat. These three movements (more than anything else I’ve used) have really improved my hip mobility (I’m 37) and I feel have given me a “better” DL. Sure when I was younger I was able to rake 565, but my form sucked and my body was able to recover WAAYYY faster. These days I’m happy getting singles at 405 with my best version of proper form (again, see picture).
Shadow has it right when he says that the lift will FEEL so different when done correctly. For me, its a glute/ham with a little bit of upper quad thing where my upper body just sort of folds backward and upright with almost a ‘pop’ when I lock out. More of a ‘one smooth motion’ than a series of movements to get fully upright. Does any of that makes sense? Hope its helpful.
**edit–I just remembered this article. If you haven’t read it, please check it out.
[/quote]
I can’t do clean or snatch due to a torn rotator cuff. I’d like to think that my hip mobility is better than that of most males, due to TKD, but maybe I’ve tightened up in the last year or so; I don’t know. I’ll check the article out; thanks! BTW, if this helps: it definitely feels like the way I’m doing DL’s is mainly using my lower back. My glutes are barely sore the next day, legs feel next to nothing, and my lower back is what really takes the brunt. I didn’t know if that was normal, or if it means that I’m possibly compressing vertebrae, etc.
[quote]patricio2626 wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
patricio2626 wrote:
CDQAR24 wrote:
patricio2626 wrote:
Update: Went barefoot today and made more of an effort to lean back and get more drive with my legs, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot. I just scraped my shins and made it a little more akward for myself, but I did get 405 x 10 with a clean 10th rep this time.
seems like improvement to me, bro.
Yeah, but not enought of an improvement that I can pin it on the change in technique for sure.
Perhaps not, but like so many of the coaches have said before…improvement IS improvement. Whether it be same effort in less time, more overall volume, etc.
Now I’m not as strong as you are, but I’m really anjoying the Olys these days and I have to totally concur with Shadow. Biomechanics accounted for, I really think you should try to emulate the start position he showed you in that picture. I have to agree with the part of you probably need to work on your hip mobility.
My .02 would be to lighten your load (for now), dedicate some time to learning the power clean, power snatch and develop a love for the front squat. These three movements (more than anything else I’ve used) have really improved my hip mobility (I’m 37) and I feel have given me a “better” DL. Sure when I was younger I was able to rake 565, but my form sucked and my body was able to recover WAAYYY faster. These days I’m happy getting singles at 405 with my best version of proper form (again, see picture).
Shadow has it right when he says that the lift will FEEL so different when done correctly. For me, its a glute/ham with a little bit of upper quad thing where my upper body just sort of folds backward and upright with almost a ‘pop’ when I lock out. More of a ‘one smooth motion’ than a series of movements to get fully upright. Does any of that makes sense? Hope its helpful.
**edit–I just remembered this article. If you haven’t read it, please check it out.
I can’t do clean or snatch due to a torn rotator cuff. I’d like to think that my hip mobility is better than that of most males, due to TKD, but maybe I’ve tightened up in the last year or so; I don’t know. I’ll check the article out; thanks! BTW, if this helps: it definitely feels like the way I’m doing DL’s is mainly using my lower back. My glutes are barely sore the next day, legs feel next to nothing, and my lower back is what really takes the brunt. I didn’t know if that was normal, or if it means that I’m possibly compressing vertebrae, etc. [/quote]
“it definitely feels like the way I’m doing DL’s is mainly using my lower back” is where the previous comments about you might as well just do RDLs is coming from. Just keep in mind that a proper RDL is you pushing your hips back, stretching your hams. Not bending forward, straining your back. And thrusting your hips forward to an upright position, kinda like grudge f**king. lol
Personally I feel ‘sore’ more in my glutes, calves and hammies. A little in my lower back, but that could be more attributed to the hypers I do to warm up my lumbar before going heavy. Guess I should note here that I do DLs on my quad/calf day and sumos on my hammie/calf days and I use a lot of cleans and snatches throughout the week. i.e. when doing OH press I always start (rep 1) with a PC. I like the way I get set up (foot spacing, shoulder pinch, core lock, etc.). Like a clean and jerk, but a press instead.
When you say “TKD”, is that Tae Kwon Do? Its been years for me, but I used to fight full contact TKD when I was in my early teens. Good stuff! Gotta admit, never had such tear drop quads since! But the front squats are helping to remedy that.
IME I’d say it means, you’d better be careful. And even if you’re not able to using the clean r snatch, I’d still recommend developing an understanding of them as I believe it’ll help you understand the technique for a proper deadlift that much more.
The way I understand it, a power snatch is basically all of these movements combined in one smooth/explosive effort:
the deadlift
the high pull
the overhead squat
Regardless, the technique for the deadlift is the same.
BTW, if you don’t already have one, invest in some heating pads to speed up the recovery cycle for those heavy days. More targeted blood flow = quicker recovery. Just a thought.
Good luck and great lifting!
I dont understand why so many people are reluctant to mention stretching when critiquing a lift. IMO deadlifts, as with most other lifts, take a certain degree of skill and know how. After that its all about whether or not you can get yourself into the optimal position to pull. You mention that you feel your flexibility is better than most males. I am the same way. I maintain the flexibility to put my hands flat on the floor.
However, this only demonstrates that your hamstrings arent extremely tight, not that they are very flexible since the majority of that distance can be made up by spinal flexion. It takes alot to have the hamstring flexibility that will allow the pelvis to stay neutral at the beginning of a deadlift, especially at your height. I am 6’4" myself, you look pretty tall too, so it does take a bit. When you feel recovered, I would put up that 315 x 5 that will be very telling. Also, how long do you take between your deadlift days?
I’m not that tall, 6’0", with probably a 31" inseam or so (32" length dress pants, but 30" is usually OK for baggy jeans). I did DL again last night, and I’ll post the vid later today/tomorrow of 275 x 7 that I did as a warm-up. The angle sucked, and I had to use a mirror, but hopefully it’ll be clear enough. I’ve been doing a 3-day split with 2 off days, so that makes for 4 days off between deadlift days.
One thing I would say about that is with my experience, your body needs more rest between deadlift days than any other exercise. With the people I train, I will usually go about 9 days rest between deadlift days, we may do some technique work, but as far as actually pushing strength levels, 9 days seems to work about right most times.