[quote]apwsearch wrote:
OK, so let’s try to salvage this thread.
[/quote]
Can you please post videos of your lifts, because your arrogant attitude is really annoying.
Sure, you may have a good total, but, your communication skills are terrible.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]crashcrew56 wrote:
3x BW deadlift doesn’t seem like that crazy of a feat, I have been powerlifting for less than a year and I am only 55lbs away from it at 220lbs, and I rarely did deadlifts before I started powerlifting.
[/quote]
Well, those might be the most difficult 55#'s you have ever gained. To me, 55#'s is a loooong way away so I don’t even consider this a valid reference point.
In particular if you are a 3 lift competitor and want to maximize performance in all 3 lifts.[/quote]
I know what you are saying, but where my strength levels are at right now, I am not too worried about those 55lbs. I just need to bring up my bottom end strength, I can hit 660 in straight weight, just not off the floor. I am still fairly new to powerlifting training so my strength gains are still coming fairly quick.
[quote]Mr. Zero wrote:
[quote]crashcrew56 wrote:
3x BW deadlift doesn’t seem like that crazy of a feat, I have been powerlifting for less than a year and I am only 55lbs away from it at 220lbs, and I rarely did deadlifts before I started powerlifting. He’s some advice for it, don’t be a pussy and train hard.
I don’t know anyone that pulls 3x BW and does isometrics, not saying it doesn’t work, but I don’t know anyone that does it. I do train with guys that can pull over 3x
After some thinking about this, I would say the biggest thing is to train your weaknesses.
And to Zero, why would you compete in the ADPF meet, there real competition will be at the Il state meet.[/quote]
Do you know when or where that will be?
Thanks.[/quote]
March 21st at Bolingbrook Highschool, it’s an APF/AAPF meet. They have the meet listed on www.chicagopowerlifting.com
[quote]ALA wrote:
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
OK, so let’s try to salvage this thread.
[/quote]
Can you please post videos of your lifts, because your arrogant attitude is really annoying.
Sure, you may have a good total, but, your communication skills are terrible.[/quote]
I agree, he has no social skills, people are not going to listen you apwsearch if you keep giving them abuse.
[quote]crashcrew56 wrote:
I know what you are saying, but where my strength levels are at right now, I am not too worried about those 55lbs. I just need to bring up my bottom end strength, I can hit 660 in straight weight, just not off the floor. I am still fairly new to powerlifting training so my strength gains are still coming fairly quick.[/quote]
Cool. What do you weigh currently?
[quote]ALA wrote:
Can you please post videos of your lifts, because your arrogant attitude is really annoying.
[/quote]
[quote]ALA wrote:
Ummm, no. Who the fuck are you, pal?
If you want to have conversation off line about meet results, etc. send me a PM. Otherwise, piss off Chaka.
[quote]ALA wrote:
Sure, you may have a good total, but, your communication skills are terrible.[/quote]
You give me way more credit than I deserve. Haven’t you heard, I actually don’t even train. My whole posting persona is a carefully designed ruse to pump up my severely lacking self-esteem.
This site has become a great place for me to prey on the weak and unedumacated.
[quote]aaron_lohan wrote:
I agree, he has no social skills, people are not going to listen you apwsearch if you keep giving them abuse.[/quote]
I don’t care if people listen to me. I just call things the way I see 'em.
There is not a person on this site whom really wants help that I don’t do the best I can for them. I just have a low tolerance for BS.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]crashcrew56 wrote:
I know what you are saying, but where my strength levels are at right now, I am not too worried about those 55lbs. I just need to bring up my bottom end strength, I can hit 660 in straight weight, just not off the floor. I am still fairly new to powerlifting training so my strength gains are still coming fairly quick.[/quote]
Cool. What do you weigh currently? [/quote]
I’m sitting right at 220 right now
[quote]Mr. Zero wrote:
True. A similar thing happened to one of the lifters at my gym. But I don’t understand what this has to do with the thread. [/quote]
In my mind, it is the essence of this thread. They way you achieve progression in your lifts is complete training cycles, monitor progress and repeat. The problem is most beginner/intermediate lifters do not know how to structure a solid training cycle so they become internet lemmings jumping from routine to routine never sitting still long enough to figure out what worked and what didnt. I will speak to this more when I address your isometrics response.
[quote] I know a lot of successful bodybuilders that do not eat salmon. That does not mean salmon is of no benefit. There are many aspects of strength including isometric strength, concentric strength, eccentric strength, speed-strength, and so on. Why just focus on concentric strength?
First, let us define isometrics as it pertains to training. An isometric contraction is a contraction in which no actual shortening or lengthening of the muscle occurs. The type of isometrics my training partners and I use are isometrics in which you attempt to move an immovable load.
For example, benching or deadlifting against pins in a power rack. We use various positions held for certain amounts of time. Functional ismetrics can also be used. One of the benefits and reasons I RECOMMENDED isometrics is beacuase isometrics lead to the greatest motor unit recruitment.
The lifter is ‘priming’ (or ‘activation’ or whatever term you use) the muscle for lifting. Research studies show that a maximal isometric contraction recruits more motor units than a maximal concentric contraction or maximal eccentric contraction. I have also found combining isometrics and actual lifting to be very effective.
Another reasons I advocate isometrics is because a lifter can pin point where he is a weak in a lift and target that weak point. For example if one had a training partner or client that was weak in the deadlift right below his knees you can target that. One must understand that strength training is joint angle specific.
As with the example aforementioned, one can set up the pins in a power rack to the specific angle and develop limit strength AT that point. Furthermore, there would be a carryover of about 15 degrees at the angle. So the person would also get stronger a little below the knee and at the knee.
FURTHERMORE, I could tell as soon as i read the OP’s post that he was a beginner. The problem with many beginners is that they can not produce maximal intramuscular tension during a concentric. Isometrics can ‘teach’ the lifter to produce that tension. As it does not require the same level of form, motorskills, technique, associated with a full range of motion lift.
The lifters at the gym and I have had great progress incorporating isometrics. My training partner (Tyler Meeks) benched 350 at 165 in his last meet, raw and drug free. I pulled 3x BW - I am 19 years old and I started lifting at 17. Isometrics work for us. [/quote]
This whole response reads like something written by kid who just completed his first year of college as a physiology/exercise science major. I don’t need you to define terms for me and you over speak the entire topic.
The reality of things is with only 2 years training under your belt you are still in the stage where “everything works.” I think you are hard pressed to assert isos have contributed that much to your training.
Additionally, body type, muscle recruitment, blah blah blah aside, the reality of things is a new lifter is going to get way more bang for their buck training with someone who can reinforce proper form, lead them in the direction of accesory movements that will help with both the execution of the lift and ability to hold body position during the lift than anything else. Also, they need help cycling their training so that they achieve their goals over a broader period of time as opposed to session to session. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
The concept of compensatory acceleration is as old as dirt. We have applied plenty of fancy terms around it in the last 10 years but the reality of things is this is nothing new.
[quote]
I did not say accessory movements are of no benefit. I was simply implying that they are more valuable to some lifters than others. For example, two people who both deadlift 200 and want to get to 400. One is built for the deadlift and gains the 200 pounds in 4 months WITH NO accessory work.
The other may deadlift AND bust his ass on the accessory work yet also gains 200 in the same period. The latter may have not been built for the deadlift. Simply, leverage (body type) plays significant roles. However, more advanced lifters WILL require accessory work in order to progress. Fact of the matter is, OP is nowhere near advanced so he COULD get away with no accessory work. [/quote]
American lifters, as opposed to their Eastern block counterparts tend to be terribly underconditoned.
That is the primary reason we look at their training cycles, or for that matter someone like Siders training cycles and think they must be on gas and that the volume exceeds anything a reasonable person would want to entertain.
The point often missed is these lifters progressed to this level of volume over a significant period of time and have also had cycles for them which masterfully manipulated volume and intensity.
For example, if I take on a new lifter and write them a meet prep cycle, I fully expect it to take at least 3-4 cycles until we get things right and can accurately predict meet performance based on completion of the cycle. It can be differ widely among lifters.
Additionally, accesory work, whether it be pushing a sled, barbell movements, whatever increase conditioning, support increases in muscle mass and raise work capacity which contributes to optimal performance of the core lift.
For these couple of points alone, I think it is really silly to discount accesory work as a contributor to performance in the core lift. In particular for the beginner to intermediate lifter.
Lastly, for a 3 lift competitor it becomes a chicken or the egg thing around wether squatting contributes to DL performance or vice versa but nobody in their right mind would assert the two don’t compliment each other. A great example of this is Gillingham’s (who has pulled 800+ in more full meets than anybody in the history of the sport so I think it is fair to say he is a gifted puller) assertion that the beltless 5x5 squat training and his focus on heavy racks and a recurring use of the Russian front squat program has contributed the most to his deadlift. If you are familiar with Jackal’s base 16 week squat and deadlift program you know that very little time is spent pulling from the floor.
[quote]Matsa wrote:
Man, that guy was pretty well put together for deadlifting…[/quote]
Dude also had really severe scoliosis. Very inspirational.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
[quote]Wild_Iron_Gym wrote:
[quote]Hanley wrote:
[quote]Wild_Iron_Gym wrote:
You just deadlift and keep getting better at it. I’ve done it at 220 and I’m close at 242. It’s honestly easier the lighter you are. There’s not to many 275 guys that can do it. Once you’re above 275 there’s not a single lifter that can do it.[/quote]
O RLY?
Konsti can afford to gain at least 18lb and still do it.[/quote]
Maybe. At a certain point gaining weight makes your deadlift decrease. The best deadlift by a 308 in the last year was Chuck Fought’s 900. There’s only a few that have done over 800. Compare that to how many 148-198 lifters can do it. It’s definitely much more difficult as you get heavier.
[/quote]
You’re kidding me? Could you be clutching at straws any more? You’ve absolutely NO basis for saying his DL would go down. Do you even know the theory as to WHY the DL is supposed to go down as your weight goes up?? It’s cause you become a fat fucker with a huge gut and can’t get into position. Are you seriously saying Konsti’s running that risk?
I lose more faith in this forum every day.[/quote]
Me and my roommate discussed this the other night, and I agree that the post you replied to is partially shenanigans, but I would have to say that as you do get heavier the harder it is to pull a 3x bodyweight pull. An example, in the PLUSA top 100 that I made(I can give the issue number and date if need be, but don’t have the magazine on me right now), the minumum deadlift to make it was I think 515lbs for the 165lb class. So that is 100 people in the 165lb class in one year that acheived a 3+bw pull. Well on the powerliftingwatch powerlifting records, there has only been 13 people to ever achieve a 900lb deadlift regardless of weight. In fact only 4 of those people were over a 3x bodyweight pull, there were two 275lb lifters, one 308lb lifter and Ed Coan was in the 220lb class haha crazy. But anyway, that is officially only one person that weighs about 300lbs to pull 3x bodyweight, compared to the 100 165lb lifters in one year that acheived a 3x bodyweight pull. U have to look at the absolute value of the weight and take that into account, not just say that they all become fat fucks as they go up in weight classes, just like the highest coefficient totals are done by the lighter weight classes. Look at the powerliftingwatch records for 12xbx totals.
^^Absolutely 100% agree that pulling (hell lifting) multiples of bodyweight is harder as you get heavier. Law of diminishing returns and all that. I was just calling BS in Konsti’s case!!
Bodyweight becomes an issue if you are heavy and aren’t elite. I know plenty of blokes under 170 who deadlift 3xBW and one whose done 4x, another whose on the verge of it. The 220’s and 242’s sees the numbers thin out dramatically.
I was some 20lbs off it when I was a 220, but now I’m a 242 its a bit further away.
In any case, I think it’s worth listening to apwsearch as he has not only lifted but by all accounts has coached plenty of lifters to a high level; from experience you learn a hell of a lot from teaching, and theres plenty of stuff that works for me but not for everyone else.
You may not like the delivery, but that doesn’t mean the message is wrong.
Personally I’m somewhat sceptical of the benefit of isometrics in the deadlift, as I’d view the start of the lift as having a similar effect once you are technically proficient enough to use a challenging weight. You can be straining and initially the bar does not move. Multiply that by however many reps you do from a dead stop an it adds up to a fair amount of time.
In between elevating the lifter or the bar you can work any weak spot or target section of the lift, so I don’t see a real “gap” for isometrics to fill.
I’m also hesitant to encourage anything where you set up the same way as a competition lift then don’t complete it; I feel it teaches you to get in a good position for wherever the movement stops instead of the best position for a successful lift.
I’m not a fan of Sheiko’s deadlifts to the knees for this very reason.
I shouldn’t comment in this thread since I’ve never accomplished anything, ever, but I have known four guys that pulled at least 3X bodyweight and I may know a fifth, he was kind of a big deal in the early 80’s. I’m just saying that yes it is a big deal but maybe not that rare. I’ve known a total of maybe 10 powerlifters in my life and four of them could pull 3x bodyweight. One of my five wasn’t a powerlifter just a gym rat.
Gym rat guy’s name was Kory something, he competed in the body for life thing in the late 90’s. He wasn’t a finalist even, however Mike Mentzer went to bat for him with that Bill Phillips guy but to no avail. This guy was a buck thirty and pulled a 535# gym max with a belt and straps. He took great joy in traveling from gym to gym and deadlifting to show off.
He became a personal trainer but swore he’d make every little old lady he had for a client do farmer’s walks. He kind of creeped me a out a little because he always asked me to flex for him. He liked me because I could curl 100 pound dumbbells for reps even though I didn’t curl.
The 80’s guy was Mark Winquist, maybe some of the “older” lifters on here know him. If I am correct he was an AAU national champ and competed in the world’s of some fed at least once. I believe that he did based on memory. He competed at meets where Kazmeier competed and also Fred Hatfield.
Interesting stuff, he said he watched Kazmeier tear a pec or biceps on a bench attempt and still finish the lift. He also said he saw Hatfield warm up for squats by jump squatting 315# to full depth. This is just what he said I have no pictures or videos to confirm. He does have a nice set of photos and trophies on his collegiate alma maters wall of fame. He also told me that Kaz wanted to have his tendons and / or ligaments replaced with those of a gorilla so who knows.
One guy was a 132#, he was actually in the high 120’s, and pulled in the low 500’s, I remember this was a big deal when he did it. It made the local news because it was an American record. This could have been 4X bw I couldn’t find it on the internet today. He benched in the low 300’s as well.
If anyone gets bored or cares his name is Josh Smith and this would have been in the early to mid 90’s. He is from South Dakota but was in the army when he did this. This guy was always a strong dude and looked much bigger than his weight and very very cut all the time, he had a hot sister too! She was strong as shit as well.
One guy was a 198# and 18 years old, he pulled 639.25 at a USAPL junior national meet. He was a fast sprinter too not that it matters. He basically bombed his squat and bench at the meet and used his anger to pull the big pr. I don’t recall how he did at worlds that year. He graduated high school and never really had the same results as he did when he was young.
In a newspaper interview he credited Mark Winquist and myself as his main powerlfting influences. I was named as an influence along with a an actual big hitting powerlifter, hahahaha. I was more of a huge waste of skills looking back. Ed Wendel.
Another 198# is a guy that has been at it for years. He finally decided to stop squatting due to back problems and his deadlift has gone upward since then. He still does push pulls and does well. This guy is Jeff Blindauer. I’m guessing that some of the USAPL folks on here would know of him.
Four out of five of these guys were young when they hit the big weights and all of them were in lighter weight classes. From observations I would say that it takes big nuts to pull 3X bodyweight, for guys and girls. I don’t think that 3X bw deadlifts are that rare simply because the peop’s I mentioned are all from the same corner of the low populace state that I grew up in.
There are more but I don’t personally know them. In fact there is a woman who was from my corner of the world who did quite well at Worlds many times, as in winning stuff, and may still be going at it. I met her dad at a cheese factory and he started telling me about how his daughter was kind of a big deal. I beleive that she is in the D.C area now.
I can tell you how not to deadlift 3X-
Never pull heavy 1’s 2’s or 3’s, you may be strong enough to pull 3X but you will never know.
Pull your hamstrings during sprint workouts at least annually, but keep sprinting and pulling hammys 'cause its good for you and you like it.
Resting one to two years in between workouts.
Not caring too much if you do 3X or not.
How to-
Big nuts.
Train.
Be built right-I know a 650# bencher with a 620# deadlift.
Want to do it really badly.
Caffeine?
I thought I should throw some names in with my claims to somewhat substantiate my theory that a 3X bw deadlift isn’t as rare or as daunting of a challenge as some other people want it to be. I haven’t been to a gym for years but if I had I may have more names to name. Did I mention that I like deadlifting threads?
Edit: To clarify, I am saying that a 3X bw deadlift at lighter weight classes is not a rare feat. I know you can’t count the gymrats/non-pl’ers but if you could I think you’d find a high number of big deadlifters.
The best way to reach a 3x bdwt pull - have huge desire to reach that weight, AKA big f’n balls (no offense to the ladies of course).
I can tell you how not to deadlift 3X-
Never pull heavy 1’s 2’s or 3’s, you may be strong enough to pull 3X but you will never know.
Pull your hamstrings during sprint workouts at least annually, but keep sprinting and pulling hammys 'cause its good for you and you like it.
Resting one to two years in between workouts.
Not caring too much if you do 3X or not.
This is exactly what I do.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I can tell you how not to deadlift 3X-
Never pull heavy 1’s 2’s or 3’s, you may be strong enough to pull 3X but you will never know.
Pull your hamstrings during sprint workouts at least annually, but keep sprinting and pulling hammys 'cause its good for you and you like it.
Resting one to two years in between workouts.
Not caring too much if you do 3X or not.
This is exactly what I do.[/quote]
Me too! Judging by your lifts it must work for you though. You must rest longer between workouts or something.?.?
FWIW I hit a 3x bw deadlift today, hence my ressurecting this thread. 605 sumo pull, belt and chalk only, at 200 lbs bodyweight. Yeah me.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
FWIW I hit a 3x bw deadlift today, hence my ressurecting this thread. 605 sumo pull, belt and chalk only, at 200 lbs bodyweight. Yeah me. [/quote]
Great job h4m, sumo ftw.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
FWIW I hit a 3x bw deadlift today, hence my ressurecting this thread. 605 sumo pull, belt and chalk only, at 200 lbs bodyweight. Yeah me. [/quote]
wow, very nice