21 Y/O Male - Advice Needed

Off Topic
141

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I can see that talking to a stripper can build confidence (that’s kinda why they talk to you in the first place…), but I DON’T believe it teaches any useful skills regarding how to talk to a woman OUTSIDE of a strip club. If anything, it ingrains bad habits. You get zero feedback in terms of what actually works and what doesn’t. Strippers will laugh at your shitty jokes, pretend to pay attention when you talk about yourself too much, etc. None of this is good. It will make the OP feel worse when he realizes this in actual social settings. So when you say ‘the skills will translate to reality,’ I strongly disagree, unless the ONLY thing the OP is lacking in conversation is confidence. If content is a problem (it clearly is), then this could make things worse.[/quote]

I agree with this. I also believe it is a bad idea because the dancers are in positions of control. I believe the last thing needed by a guy who is down on his interaction and understanding of women is this sort of situation.

I believe one of the characteristics of our present day mess of confused, lonely, womanless men is a situation in which women are constantly being genuflected to. Many have taken advantage of this with social media, in which they post pics on social media so sex and companionship starved men can provides “likes” and follow in the thousands for each picture and account. Women (and GIRLS) also pick up on the inferior, desperate male position at a very young age these days and exploit it to the hilt by entertaining themselves with serial dating, endless picture posting, and favor- and resource-mongering.

Throw in some sleazy male-bashing talk shows like The View, and movies, sitcoms, and commercials in which men are depicted in extreme forms–either a bumbling dunce and pushover or a chauvinistic, slick, fast-talking “alpha” who bosses people around and makes plenty of money from doing very little (eg, Mr. Big)–and some impressionable, confused, and lonely men might indeed feel very lost because it is either “alpha” males or attractive women ruling the roost while they are left twiddling their thumbs.

I say stay away from this environment and avoid pornography as well. You need normal social interactions with average (gasp, did I say that word?!) women.
[/quote]

Exactly.

142

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

Exactly.[/quote]

Thanks.

143

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I agree with this. I also believe it is a bad idea because the dancers are in positions of control. I believe the last thing needed by a guy who is down on his interaction and understanding of women is this sort of situation.

I believe one of the characteristics of our present day mess of confused, lonely, womanless men is a situation in which women are constantly being genuflected to. Many have taken advantage of this with social media, in which they post pics on social media so sex and companionship starved men can provides “likes” and follow in the thousands for each picture and account. Women (and GIRLS) also pick up on the inferior, desperate male position at a very young age these days and exploit it to the hilt by entertaining themselves with serial dating, endless picture posting, and favor- and resource-mongering.

Throw in some sleazy male-bashing talk shows like The View, and movies, sitcoms, and commercials in which men are depicted in extreme forms–either a bumbling dunce and pushover or a chauvinistic, slick, fast-talking “alpha” who bosses people around and makes plenty of money from doing very little (eg, Mr. Big)–and some impressionable, confused, and lonely men might indeed feel very lost because it is either “alpha” males or attractive women ruling the roost while they are left twiddling their thumbs.
[/quote]
Oh no, Evil Woman is holding Man down, the world over.

Honestly, I mean no offense, but I have a hard time understanding where you’re going with this.

I guess, point by point. How do you see that the dancers in a position of control? By any stretch of the term, I can’t see it. It seems there’s a much stronger argument that the men/customers are in a position of control, given that a dancer’s livelihood (sometimes/frequently) depends on whether she makes any money. Most dancers are independent contractors and not employees, the core financial relationship is between the dancer and the customer, not the club and the dancer. So given that the customer has direct influence on the dancer’s earnings, and by extension, her livelihood, how is the dancer the one in the position of control?

Secondly, I think it’s very strange this concept that women, en-masse, are to somehow exploiting men. Certainly there’s been some engineering to ensure that women have a more significant media presence, at least in the media with controlled access (e.g., film and television), but in social media, neither men nor women have any advantage over the other. This preying and exploitation you mention, I’m just not seeing it. It’s not as if men are forced to follow some Instagram celebrity of the week; they voluntarily elect to be exposed to whatever they want. Freedom of choice, and all that.

Now as far as archetypes and stereotypes of males in entertainment, it’s not as if the bumbling dunce is a new thing, nor the chauvinistic alpha. Nearly every historical school of drama has featured both of those in one form or another. Wouldn’t it be fair to say that The View is an unfair portrayal of women, sticking primarily to the “outspoken nagging housewife” stereotype? Is that any more or less fair to women?

Maybe some of this stuff you just need to elaborate, because I’m really not following.

144

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
You need normal social interactions with average (gasp, did I say that word?!) women.
[/quote]
No objections here.

145

[quote]pushharder wrote:
But we did have a fun and interesting conversation. She was actually an intelligent woman, stripper or not.

I kid ye not.[/quote]
I believe it. Have a few stories of my own.

People conflate “who you are” with “what you do” way too often. She’s a dancer, so she must be […]. He works construction, so he must be […]. Sometimes the generalizations hold true, sometimes they don’t.

146

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Hi 21-year-old pothead. You should probably start spending more time in strip clubs.

Do you see how crazy that sounds? [/quote]

He didn’t say that and you know it. He’d be going there for an educational purpose, not for hanging out.

147

Wow, this is really turning into an interesting thread. Thanks to everyone for all the interesting commentary and suggestions. I’ll try to address mst of it in turn.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

Do you think weed use might be decreasing your motivation, drive, ambition?

[/quote]
Maybe to a certain extent, I spend a lot of time just chilling when I’m not working. But overall, for me the main benefit is that it tends to mellow me out and take the edge off the stress I experience on a daily basis. It also has a function of allowing me to forget things that cause me pain. For me, this is mainly my adolescent years (haha), I mean once I reach the age of 25 I will basically want to forget everything that happened between 15 and then. I have also ran while high, as dumb as that sounds, I ran a half marathon while stoned and it was one of the most amazing experiences I’ve ever had.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

Is there something you are interested in since you dislike your current job?

[/quote]
Anyone who knows me well knows me as the creative musical whiz kid. I wasn’t shooting b-ball on the court when I was 14, I was playing guitar and writing music. That is part of the reason for my inferiority complex, when I was younger I never was a jock or participated in the more â??masculineâ?? stuff that other boys were doing, like football etc. I believe I have to compensate for that now.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
But it might make for decent exercise for a young man who has trouble with conversation with the opposite sex.
[/quote]
I don’t really have a problem talking to the opposite sex, in terms of awkwardness or what not. The problem I see is really that I’m just too fuckin’ young, or at least I appear so, to try chatting up women like that. I just spent a summer getting informed that I look 16, it’s not as if I look like some hard brother or thug. It’s hard to get around the shallow external stuff in environments such as strip clubs, so I have 2 options - either wait, or just throw myself out there and see what the hell happens. I could fail miserably, or I could gain confidence. I’m leaning toward the former however, I tend to be realistic.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Why travel when there’s TV and Instagram and Facebook? Why meet a guy when there’s romance novels? Why meet a girl when there’s porn? When we can expose ourself to idealized, filtered versions of reality, why experience the real thing?

[/quote]
And that in a nutshell is the entire problem with my generation. We spend too much time on Facebook or dating apps instead of meeting real people and (gasp!) actually having real conversations. I want to pre-empt this before it becomes a real issue for me, and deal with people genuinely now.

148

[quote]LoRez wrote:

Oh no, Evil Woman is holding Man down, the world over.

Honestly, I mean no offense, but I have a hard time understanding where you’re going with this. [/quote]

I know you don’t mean offense and that you’re a good guy.

I don’t think women as a whole are evil or are conspiring to keep men down. The media masters are using some of the most influential and revered ones to denigrate men.

[quote]

I guess, point by point. How do you see that the dancers in a position of control? By any stretch of the term, I can’t see it. It seems there’s a much stronger argument that the men/customers are in a position of control, given that a dancer’s livelihood (sometimes/frequently) depends on whether she makes any money. Most dancers are independent contractors and not employees, the core financial relationship is between the dancer and the customer, not the club and the dancer. So given that the customer has direct influence on the dancer’s earnings, and by extension, her livelihood, how is the dancer the one in the position of control?

Secondly, I think it’s very strange this concept that women, en-masse, are to somehow exploiting men. Certainly there’s been some engineering to ensure that women have a more significant media presence, at least in the media with controlled access (e.g., film and television), but in social media, neither men nor women have any advantage over the other. This preying and exploitation you mention, I’m just not seeing it. It’s not as if men are forced to follow some Instagram celebrity of the week; they voluntarily elect to be exposed to whatever they want. Freedom of choice, and all that.

Now as far as archetypes and stereotypes of males in entertainment, it’s not as if the bumbling dunce is a new thing, nor the chauvinistic alpha. Nearly every historical school of drama has featured both of those in one form or another. Wouldn’t it be fair to say that The View is an unfair portrayal of women, sticking primarily to the “outspoken nagging housewife” stereotype? Is that any more or less fair to women?

Maybe some of this stuff you just need to elaborate, because I’m really not following.[/quote]

I should have elaborated. The issue with posting on a forum like this–and T-Nation is really the only forum I like, because of the intelligent and lucid group of people here, which is a gem for internet forums–is that it is done for leisure and I do not have the appropriate amount of time to fully explain all of my thoughts and reasoning behind them.

My views are admittedly strongly biased and shaped by my personal experiences and observations. I will likely be back later to explain much more.

149

Go to a yoga class.

150

@ Strip clubs tangent -
LoRez, Nighthawk, Push - I get that you are taking a more nuanced view, and LoRez said he probably wouldn’t have recommended it if he’d had the luxury of reading the whole thread first. I came to this late, after a lot of other factors were discussed. I’m still not buying the strip club = training wheels argument, but hey, I’m a chick and I have a son who’s turning 20 soon. You wouldn’t expect to hear me think it’s a great idea, right?

dave670 - I will respond to your comment when I have some time later. I wasn’t sure how often you were smoking. It just occurred to me that some of the personality traits associated with high T are sort of the polar opposite of mellow. Your 20’s should be one of the most productive decades in terms of growing and challenging yourself, in all parts of your life.

151

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
dave670 - I will respond to your comment when I have some time later. I wasn’t sure how often you were smoking. It just occurred to me that some of the personality traits associated with high T are sort of the polar opposite of mellow. Your 20’s should be one of the most productive decades in terms of growing and challenging yourself, in all parts of your life. [/quote]
To some extent, I am shooting in the dark. The truth is that I have no idea what my testosterone is, whether it’s high, low, etc. I only had it tested once, over a year ago, and it was 400 ng/dl. It could be higher now, who knows. If that is the case, whether I know it or not, cannabis could be self-medicating myself to counteract the aggressive feelings my own hormones produce. I get stressed out more times than I can count every day, i’m sure stress hormones are firing off all over the place, and there are times I internally get enraged to the point that I feel like hurting my aggressors.

It’s a difficult thing, the very hormone that makes a man a man can also make your emotional state shit in a lot of ways.

All I can do is look for other signs of T, which are certainly there. Even though I’m light, I don’t have a 12 year old’s musculature, and I do have a sex drive once in awhile, when I’m not too stressed out or depressed to have one that is.

The adolescent boy inferiority complex is a constant thing for me, and it makes me extremely angry. I’ve worked among high school-age kids at approaching 22 years old, only to be told about how young I look. This is not to even mention the crap I get working among grown men - I don’t even want to go there. I feel like there is an adult’s soul and spirit that is screaming to bust through the prison of my skin and out into the world.

152

You mentioned “when you reach 25, you want to basically forget everything that happened between 15 and then.” What do you picture yourself doing when you’re 25? In what ways would life be different 4 years from now?

Do you see music as something you could make a living at? A side-gig? An enjoyable hobby?

Is there something you are interested in as a career? Did you declare a major in college? If so, what derailed that?

A lot of the men have given some really thoughtful responses on this thread.

At 21, working full-time at a physically demanding job, even though you don’t enjoy it, shows a certain amount of mental fortitude. Honestly, I have more respect for that than for people your age who are goofing around taking a few classes, partying and living off their parents. It sounds like you have been an endurance athlete in the past, at least running half-marathons. Being down on yourself or depressed isn’t good, but on the other hand you don’t sound like an arrogant jerk either. I don’t think you look younger than you are in the face, from the pic you put up. If people are telling you that you look 16, putting on some lean muscle would help, and that’s completely achievable. Sometimes buzzing your hair will make young men look older too. If weed use is daily, and it is a way to anesthetize yourself in a situation that you should be motivated to change, then it’s not healthy. Sometimes pain- emotional or physical - is there to motivate us to action.

edited

153

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

My views are admittedly strongly biased and shaped by my personal experiences and observations. I will likely be back later to explain much more. [/quote]

Although the men in a strip club are customers and have control in the sense that they are the ones who will make decision to buy a lap dance and tip, the same way someone would pay for other forms of entertainment or tip someone for service.

However, I was not talking about a seller-buyer relationship. There is another issue going on here, and he as a customer at a strip club is not buying a typical service like car repair or medical practice. He would be buying a service that involves a problem he has, hence the recommendation for visiting a strip club.

I don’t know about the details of other mens’ issues on here regarding women, low-self esteem, and depression. I’ve several times shared mine. I’m usually private with some thing on forums, but this is one of the areas of life that I do not mind sharing. I am not ashamed of it. When I was young and wanting a woman and had problems in landing one (largely and in nearly every case because of self-sabotage and warped thinking from depression and a sheltered life) I would not look at myself as some customer with “purchasing power” or control when in a strip club.

I was lonely and wanted attention and intimacy and love (gasp!) from a woman. To see pretty, nude, and most importantly unattainable women using their attractiveness and seductiveness to capitalize on the man’s need for female attention was extremely agitating to me. I was not some young guy who had a woman back home and was there merely to amuse myself and get tipsy with my buddies, though I was sometimes with men who had their own women. I was a man with a PROBLEM! I was not some guy who went home with some blue balls that could be cured with masturbation who then shortly fell asleep. I was a guy who just saw pretty, seductive women using these qualities to get attention and money from work that is easy and could get a date and male attention… AT WILL. I went home alone with no attention and no woman to usually wake up to a crumby part-time job so common amongst college or high school students: buttering bagels, folding clothes, cleaning and waiting on tables, etc.

Womanless men, men with no few connections, men with poor self-esteem, they have little or no control.

I don’t think some people can relate to the anger or sadness experienced by some womanless men. A man who thinks he will NEVER find a woman will never feel in control with much in life. It’s really not as simple as him not getting his rocks off. And as one gets older those feelings only intensify. Every other dam night going to bed sad and tearing. It’s terrible. Thank god I am married now and have some great friends and family members in my life. THIS is why I am biased and sensitive towards this topic and why I usually get involved in these threads. Men who always had women can’t relate. Which is why some will be overly harsh and think getting over a problem like this will just be a matter of toughening up. It doesn’t work like that.

Low self esteem and this situation can even stick with someone residually. I love, LOVE my wife and my in-laws and have NO interest in silly self-entertaining flirtations with people. But even in some situations in which there are many women, I have this odd, deja-vu-style, low sense of feeling out of place. Even one time when my wife relayed a compliment from one of her co-workers at the salon, “Your husband is handsome and fit,” I responded in an unsure, surprised tone, “Oh… uh… really? Thanks.” My wife responded, “Why, you don’t think some people think that? Can’t believe it?” This problem can be deep.

What also is worth mentioning is that my view and experience is likely warped because of where I grew up. Even men I know closely who did not have major issues with women and dating have an especially dim view of the girls and women and people we grew up with generally and also the social structure we grew up in. I can go into more detail. I really wouldn’t mind doing so, but the discussion will become politically incorrect, and people who simply WRITE or SAY non-PC things these days are up for crucifixion. If people are cool with it and not turn it into some bleeding heart debacle, I will share.

154

^

Brick, that was a really nice post. Thanks for putting that up.

When you mentioned in an earlier post that you learned to look for “real women”, talking about how young men sometimes dismiss the average, nice girl because they’re fixated on some beauty ideal that may not be attainable, or even that important. It’s much better to find a girl who’s beautiful on the inside, and compatible with you as a friend. That is so wise, but it’s particularly nice considering you married this really attractive, very feminine, curvy blond. You guys look like “the beautiful people” so it would surprise anyone to hear that advice from you, and also that it was such a lonely, long and winding road getting there. So much is about our perceptions, and our attitude. Stop looking for something, and it shows up. :slight_smile: Cue Ironic by Alanis Morissette.

Some of what you said reminded me of this - “Recently, a young filmmaker said he felt he was part of a ‘generation of prodigals’ a generation ‘looking for hope and joy and fulfillment, but looking in all the wrong places and in the wrong ways.’”

I see that all the time.

edited

155

[quote]dave670 wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Developing real guts, instead, requires the ability to think objectively and not be controlled by emotions. [/quote]
Does it take guts to be a 5’6" 110 lb man and not be an absolute, pathetic beta? [/quote]

No.

The following will be my last bit of advice.

Weed suppresses testosterone levels. Stop smoking that shit. Go sort your life out.

157

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
^

Brick, that was a really nice post. Thanks for putting that up.

When you mentioned in an earlier post that you learned to look for “real women”, talking about how young men sometimes dismiss the average, nice girl because they’re fixated on some beauty ideal that may not be attainable, or even that important. It’s much better to find a girl who’s beautiful on the inside, and compatible with you as a friend. That is so wise, but it’s particularly nice considering you married this really attractive, very feminine, curvy blond. You guys look like “the beautiful people” so it would surprise anyone to hear that advice from you, and also that it was such a lonely, long and winding road getting there. So much is about our perceptions, and our attitude. Stop looking for something, and it shows up. :slight_smile: Cue Ironic by Alanis Morissette.

Some of what you said reminded me of this - “Recently, a young filmmaker said he felt he was part of a ‘generation of prodigals’ a generation ‘looking for hope and joy and fulfillment, but looking in all the wrong places and in the wrong ways.’”

I see that all the time.

edited [/quote]

Thanks for the compliments!

I think it’s very important for men to just exactly who they are. When some say, “Women do not like me” or “I have to do ______ for women to like me,” I feel like asking, “What women? Are you telling me there are millions of women who have stated, ‘we don’t like you,’ or, until you do _____ or become ______, we won’t go on a date with you.”

And perhaps these men, including the OP, can answer, "What sort of women will not go out with you? A woman from a powerful family? Gorgeous women? Thrill-seeking women? A tall woman? A short woman? A fat woman? A fit woman? An ordinary woman?

“And who are you? What are you made of? What characteristics describe you? Are you an ordinary guy? Rich? Handsome? Do you have many connections?”

Perhaps if they took such questions into consideration, they will realize who they are a fit for and who they are NOT a fit for and who will likely dismiss them or who will accept them. And in answering this, there is no reason to feel ashamed for any of the answers. It’s simply keeping in tune with who one is and who they can attract and hopefully get along with, and then one… (gasp), possibly marry and have a family with.

Then there’s the whole notion of dating “outside one’s league”, the notion that a guy with enough balls and confidence can attract a woman who society PERCEIVES is a notch up from him, which really means, more physically attractive as a woman than is a man. When some men have been encouraged to become realistic and in tune with who they are and who they are, some will respond with, “Yeah, but is this woman gonna be hot?” To which I would like to answer, “Are you hot?” Just what makes some ordinary guy entitled to a hot woman or that he must have one?

Besides, what exactly is wrong or shortcoming about dating someone who fits someone else? I’ve sometimes gotten digs on here for speaking of men dating women who match them (eg, I think I even perhaps somewhat callously said,
if you are a five, go for a five).

The same goes for socioeconomic preferences. I can take my second cousin for an example, who waited quite some time until she found a man she wanted to marry and have a family with. My uncle and mother recall that she wanted ONLY a man who makes an upper-class income AND with upper education. She waned BOTH attributes. No “game” or balls was going to change her direction. A man could have a successful business with a hefty salary but no higher education or be a tradesman with his own company (eg, a plumber) and earn a nice living–she wouldn’t proceed. She finally married a dentist.

I can go on and on here, but people catch my drift.

158

[quote]dave670 wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
dave670 - I will respond to your comment when I have some time later. I wasn’t sure how often you were smoking. It just occurred to me that some of the personality traits associated with high T are sort of the polar opposite of mellow. Your 20’s should be one of the most productive decades in terms of growing and challenging yourself, in all parts of your life. [/quote]
To some extent, I am shooting in the dark. The truth is that I have no idea what my testosterone is, whether it’s high, low, etc. I only had it tested once, over a year ago, and it was 400 ng/dl. It could be higher now, who knows. If that is the case, whether I know it or not, cannabis could be self-medicating myself to counteract the aggressive feelings my own hormones produce. I get stressed out more times than I can count every day, i’m sure stress hormones are firing off all over the place, and there are times I internally get enraged to the point that I feel like hurting my aggressors.

It’s a difficult thing, the very hormone that makes a man a man can also make your emotional state shit in a lot of ways.

All I can do is look for other signs of T, which are certainly there. Even though I’m light, I don’t have a 12 year old’s musculature, and I do have a sex drive once in awhile, when I’m not too stressed out or depressed to have one that is.

The adolescent boy inferiority complex is a constant thing for me, and it makes me extremely angry. I’ve worked among high school-age kids at approaching 22 years old, only to be told about how young I look. This is not to even mention the crap I get working among grown men - I don’t even want to go there. I feel like there is an adult’s soul and spirit that is screaming to bust through the prison of my skin and out into the world. [/quote]

Like I said before, if you are concerned about your T value, go to a urologist or endocrinologist who knows what they are doing with TRT.

Like others have said, stay away from a drug! Seriously, the last thing some lost and womanless guy is to rely on a chemical crutch rather than dealing with life with two feet on the ground.

You have every right as a grown man to stand up for yourself! Ever consider this?

With that said, can you give some examples of oppression and mistreatment. Perhaps you have stated something elsewhere, but all I got was that some yell at you. Excessive yelling IS abusive, but perhaps you can provide some examples of what they are yelling about? Are you slow on the job? Are the projects and surroundings stressful? You can simply say, “Stop… fucking… yelling at me! If you want to talk, I’ll talk. But if you’re gonna yell at me, I am not paying attention. So go screw yourself! I am not scared of you!” And show that you are COMMITTED to this stand-off!

Has that ever occurred to you? You are getting angrier and angrier because you are not standing up for yourself.

I don’t usually recommend simply toughening up, but you might have to do a bit of it. I had to myself.

And why can’t you accept how you look? Everyone has to at some point. Either that, or do what you’re doing: comparing oneself with others, disliking oneself, etc. Can’t you simply say to yourself, “I am baby faced. Some other people are too. If some don’t like my looks, then so be it.”

I have gotten more than a fair share of criticism for my ways and my facial expression. I can look very serious sometimes and for as long as I can remember, I have been asked, maybe a million times, “Why do you look so serious?” and because I can be what some describe as “cold” or “cool” sometimes. This can be very irritating. But then I realized that I cannot please everyone all the time, and if they can’t accept that I am not always on my best behavior, then f— them! Seriously.

Normal, sane people don’t dislike or disrespect others because of how they look! Bad people do. Some might not date or break bread with you because of your looks, but it does not mean they dislike you or want to mistreat you.

I strongly think you would not have near as much anger as you do if you had a nice woman and a robust social life. Then you would think of work as what it is: work. And you have a man’s job and work with your hands. I don’t know why you can’t embrace this.

159

Man, I don’t usually follow up just to give kudos but that was a fucking awesome post.

160

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
It’s much better to find a girl who’s beautiful on the inside, and compatible with you as a friend.[/quote]
Agreed.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
If you’re toking regularly for non-medical reasons you’re losing.[/quote]
Ok

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
What sort of women will not go out with you?[/quote]
Any â??womenâ??, period. Early high school girls are all I can mildly interest at this point.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Gorgeous women? [/quote]
Most certainly not, I’m a 4 fish at best, trying to swim among 10s

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
A tall woman? [/quote]
I would expect not.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And who are you…What characteristics describe you? Are you an ordinary guy? [/quote]
At present I am â??Daveâ?? who works for Joe Jerkoff & Sons Contracting. Definitely not ordinary on the inside, though.

$500 to my name at present

Reddit says no.

Not really, except from my friends.

This is just the beginning of stuff I will have to deal with, it is going to become a familiar scenario; being trapped in sucky position but unable to really backlash because I would lose my job. I’m numb to the abuse itself by now, what bothers me more is that I must give some sort of Caspar Milquetoast vibe, the impression that they can get away with it - â??Give little Dave all the shit you want, he’ll never fight back.â??

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Can’t you simply say to yourself, “I am baby faced. Some other people are too. If some don’t like my looks, then so be it.” [/quote]
It works at a subconscious level, I think. Baby face = low T, with signals to the opposite gender that I’m an inferior quality mate. The blow that that alone poses to my self esteem is huge. And looking childish to boot is just cruel insult to injury to an already painful situation. Obviously I don’t have enough T, if I did I would probably be able to grow a beard like Brian Blessed and thus circumvent the problem.