2 Week Bulk, 1 Week Cut Repeat?

buildsomemuscle · July 5, 2013, 10:47pm

have this kind of short term bulk and cut cycle alternation given results? and what kinds of results compared to slow steady long term bulk followed by cut?

What i would do nutrition wise, is, with my maintenance at rest days at approximately( can never be sure) 2800, i would eat around 3150( again can never be sure about the right amount), trying to stay around 200-250 calories above maintenance. Which is enough to make great progress for me.
i would do this for 2 weeks, while hitting the gym super hard, 2+ hour session drops sets, forced reps, whatever to put in work. i train 5 times a week. then when the cutting week comes i would drop my calories to 900 below maintenance keeping protein high, and cut volume in the gym to around 50% while keeping the weights the same.

My goal is strength and size while dropping fat over the long term to 10%.

I think this can work, i remember hearing about the body hormones and processes in relation to building muscle and fat oxidation takes around 5-7 days to respond significantly to calorie reduction and increase. so you stop your cut at the 7 day mark and keep the bulk going for longer than 7 days. anyone pitch in with whatever you have please.

Gambit_Lost · July 6, 2013, 12:56am

Truthfully, it sounds like an absolutely horrible idea to me.
My 2 cents

ryanbCXG · July 6, 2013, 1:00am

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Truthfully, it sounds like an absolutely horrible idea to me.
My 2 cents[/quote]

This

buildsomemuscle · July 6, 2013, 9:30am

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Truthfully, it sounds like an absolutely horrible idea to me.
My 2 cents[/quote]

Why? If this would work it would be the holy grail of lifting for me, i hate long cuts and it always makes me lose muscles in the long term.

in the short therm i have actually gained muscle while cutting, put on 5 kg on my bench press in a little over a month cutting earlier this year, was eating 2300-2400, down from usually eating 3300+ and gaining weight on that. but the gains stopped and actually reversed the longer i cut. i went from being able to lift 105 kg for 3 reps to 90 for 3 reps. This is why i was thinking a short term cut might work, its not long enough to have any detrimental effect physically and mentally.

i quickly rebounded tough now i am bulking and just did 2 with 102.5 but still got a way to go to regain all of it. so long cuts pretty much ruin training in general for me as a fun activity and makes me lose strength/size on top of it.

ryanbCXG · July 6, 2013, 12:18pm

If you are gaining weight you aren’t cutting.

Muscle gains take much longer than 2 weeks. And fat loss takes longer than 1 week. You basically just made a recipe to spin your wheels

cally · July 6, 2013, 1:20pm

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
If you are gaining weight you aren’t cutting.

Muscle gains take much longer than 2 weeks. And fat loss takes longer than 1 week. You basically just made a recipe to spin your wheels [/quote]

This

Gambit_Lost · July 6, 2013, 1:25pm

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Truthfully, it sounds like an absolutely horrible idea to me.
My 2 cents[/quote]

Why? If this would work… [/quote]

Pretty big “if”. I don’t think it would work. I could be wrong, but for most people that would end up (as said above) in spinning your wheels. Have you found anyone, anywhere who has done this successfully? Perhaps you could google it and see if anyone agrees with you?

Why don’t you just eat clean and limit cals a little more on your bulk? If you feel you are getting “too soft” add in a HIIT session or go for some long walks?

buildsomemuscle · July 6, 2013, 1:39pm

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
If you are gaining weight you aren’t cutting.

Muscle gains take much longer than 2 weeks. And fat loss takes longer than 1 week. You basically just made a recipe to spin your wheels [/quote]

well, 14 days with 225 calorie increase equals a total of 3150 calorie surplus, while 900 calorie deficit for 7 days equals 6300 calorie deficit which totals to a fat loss of 3150 over the course of 3 weeks while hopefully gaining muscle strength and size as well.

Yes significant muscle gain takes longer than 2 weeks, but immediate muscle gain following exercise is more debated how long it takes. we have the olympic athletes training multiple times a day saying how a muscle can recover withing 5 hours or so if you just keep your training under a certain timeframe, while we have the majority saying 48-72 hours and then the hardcore bodybuilders saying it takes a week. lets say it takes 48 to 72 hours, following that logic the muscles you trained on friday you should have recovered before you eat a calorie deficit on monday and you should keep the gains you made trough that week.

That is of course if you dont make any gains during your fat loss week. it might entiry be possible you will make some gain when taking into account the supercompensation effect that can occur following the 50% reduction in volume and that 7 days might not be long enough for the body to downregulate the anabolic envirement in your body. you are suppose to hit your muscles really hard during the 2 weeks you bulk.

as far as fat loss takes longer than 1 week, that is not true. the body is constantly taking out calories from you fat cells and replacing them with calories from food, all the time. whether you are on a deficit or not. fat loss is just the results of more calories being taken from fat cells than coming inn from food to replace the emptied fat cells.

it has to be repeated of course that i dont have anything against the normal bulk/cut thing IF you can mentally and physically handle it. but i cant, i have no problem sticking to a diet and getting my macros, but loosing strength and seeing my buddies go past my lifts, and having other people see me not getting stronger just sucks all the fun out of lifting for me and makes me hate going to gym which results in even more muscles loss and the end product is just me spinning my wheels .

so i look for other alternatives and this makes a lot of sense to me, i count calories pretty accurately and i personally have no problem with a lifestyle like this.

buildsomemuscle · July 6, 2013, 1:43pm

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Truthfully, it sounds like an absolutely horrible idea to me.
My 2 cents[/quote]

Why? If this would work… [/quote]

Pretty big “if”. I don’t think it would work. I could be wrong, but for most people that would end up (as said above) in spinning your wheels. Have you found anyone, anywhere who has done this successfully? Perhaps you could google it and see if anyone agrees with you?

Why don’t you just eat clean and limit cals a little more on your bulk? If you feel you are getting “too soft” add in a HIIT session or go for some long walks?

[/quote]

sure, i googled and searched and read all i found but it was pretty limited. most people ask and experiment with exactly what you are describing, which is a very slight calorie deficit all day every day. and i think that the body needs surplus calories to create the anabolic environment needed to make the body prioritize muscle growth, the question is of course when you create that environment during your bulk how long does it take to make it change to a catabolic environment( lower testosterone for example) and i think the answer is around 5-7 days based on stuff i have read around the nett, so my logic is keep the bulking going for longer than 7 days and keep the cut for no longer than 7 days so you dont give the body time to change into a catabolic envirement

ryanbCXG · July 6, 2013, 2:09pm

You do know a catabolic environment is needed to catabolize or use fat right?

buildsomemuscle · July 6, 2013, 2:18pm

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
You do know a catabolic environment is needed to catabolize or use fat right?[/quote]

not really, as i said the body is constantly using fat between meals triglycerides are always in your blood, but when you run a deficit, the fat used is not replaced. What i mean when i say a catabolic environment, is that for example muscle building hormones like testosterone are downregulated, giving the body signals to reduce muscle mass

ryanbCXG · July 6, 2013, 2:30pm

Muscle loss while dieting is complete shit IMO unless the cut is terribly laid out or dieting to contest levels. You are really majoring in the minors and are setting yourself up for no progress

buildsomemuscle · July 6, 2013, 2:46pm

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Muscle loss while dieting is complete shit IMO unless the cut is terribly laid out or dieting to contest levels. You are really majoring in the minors and are setting yourself up for no progress[/quote]

No it isn’t, it happends and it makes no fucking sense why. i kept basically the diet the same doing everything right, supplementing vitamin D, fish oil and creatine. getting 0.5 grams of fats per pound of bodyweigth for for proper hormone production, 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, not going over a 25% deficit. in the gym i trained every muscle twice a week not too much volume as i was on a deficit, and focused on progressive overload. i made good progress in the beginning but as the cut went on i stalled, from then i lost strength. i went from 105 kg on the bench for 3 to 90 for three, then i quit. and basically spun my wheel, i had not reached my designated bodyfat precentage of 10 yet and still weak. went from 22% bodyfat to 13/14 from january to june, which is where i am today.

i do rebound quickly tough, i went from 903 on the bench and 115 for 8 on the deadlift to 1003 and 135*12 in 4 weeks. currently on my deload week, which people say is important for consistent progress so i am trying it out.

ryanbCXG · July 6, 2013, 2:55pm

Common losing strength does not mean losing muscle. Dropping that much fat changes leverages.

ryanbCXG · July 6, 2013, 2:56pm

So you aren’t really asking for opinions you just gonna do this? I am now not understanding the op

RATTLEHEAD · July 6, 2013, 2:58pm

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
So you aren’t really asking for opinions you just gonna do this? I am now not understanding the op[/quote]

^This.

Why even ask the validity of such an idea when you just get butthurt when people shut it down for its obvious flaws?

buildsomemuscle · July 6, 2013, 3:07pm

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
So you aren’t really asking for opinions you just gonna do this? I am now not understanding the op[/quote]

^This.

Why even ask the validity of such an idea when you just get butthurt when people shut it down for its obvious flaws?[/quote] how the fuck am i butthurt? this is a discussion thread, i like this this idea because to me it makes a lot of sense. so i make this thread to listen to counter arguments and personal experiences. if someone says it sucks without giving a reason i am not going to listen to them, if someone says it sucks with a reason i am going to debate that reason to the best of my knowledge and if that person is right of course i am going to change my view what the fuck would be point of making this thread if i didn’t debate and of course didn’t change my view??

Professor_X · July 6, 2013, 3:17pm

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
So you aren’t really asking for opinions you just gonna do this? I am now not understanding the op[/quote]

^This.

Why even ask the validity of such an idea when you just get butthurt when people shut it down for its obvious flaws?[/quote] how the fuck am i butthurt? this is a discussion thread, i like this this idea because to me it makes a lot of sense. so i make this thread to listen to counter arguments and personal experiences. if someone says it sucks without giving a reason i am not going to listen to them, if someone says it sucks with a reason i am going to debate that reason to the best of my knowledge and if that person is right of course i am going to change my view what the fuck would be point of making this thread if i didn’t debate and of course didn’t change my view?? [/quote]

Well, your “new idea” has been done before. That is basically what that original “ABCDE” diet was where you “gain” for two weeks and then “cut” for two weeks.

That led to people running circles…not massive muscle gains and great fat loss.

Look, to make real progress, you choose a goal and go after it alone. You work on gaining muscle or losing fat…not both at the same time. Leave that to people who have been training long enough to know within very narrow perameters their usual caloric needs and training needs.

To gain real muscle you had better be down for this way longer than a couple of weeks at a time.

buildsomemuscle · July 6, 2013, 4:14pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
So you aren’t really asking for opinions you just gonna do this? I am now not understanding the op[/quote]

^This.

Why even ask the validity of such an idea when you just get butthurt when people shut it down for its obvious flaws?[/quote] how the fuck am i butthurt? this is a discussion thread, i like this this idea because to me it makes a lot of sense. so i make this thread to listen to counter arguments and personal experiences. if someone says it sucks without giving a reason i am not going to listen to them, if someone says it sucks with a reason i am going to debate that reason to the best of my knowledge and if that person is right of course i am going to change my view what the fuck would be point of making this thread if i didn’t debate and of course didn’t change my view?? [/quote]

Well, your “new idea” has been done before. That is basically what that original “ABCDE” diet was where you “gain” for two weeks and then “cut” for two weeks.

That led to people running circles…not massive muscle gains and great fat loss.

Look, to make real progress, you choose a goal and go after it alone. You work on gaining muscle or losing fat…not both at the same time. Leave that to people who have been training long enough to know within very narrow perameters their usual caloric needs and training needs.

To gain real muscle you had better be down for this way longer than a couple of weeks at a time.[/quote]

hmm i will have to read up on this abcde diet to see how it differentiates from my idea. i agree that its wise to chase one goal at a time, but for me personally the long cutting phases really just make me spin my wheels. usually after 1-2 months i start stalling and quickly start losing strength after that. this results in me spinning my wheels, which is why i am looking for different alternatives.

i did notice during my last cut that within the first month and a half i could make progress and i put 5 kg on my bench max, while being in what i thought to be a 25% deficit( can never be 100% sure of course)

so my thougth process was that maybe i could make progress during these short cuts of 7 days as well? as long as i dont make them any longer than that and reduce volume during the period. have you ever tried it yourself?

i will ask around on other forums as well, and keeping looking for information on if this would work, if i decide to try it i will surely report back to this thread for people wondering about this as well.

Professor_X · July 6, 2013, 4:19pm