18 Months Progress. Too Little or About Right?

Training
1

I have been consistenly training now for close to 2 years. I used to go to the gym sporadically but followed no useful training program or diet advice and thus any gains were realtively sporadic and short term.

I started at 154lbs 15% Body Fat and am now at 168lbs 15% Body Fat.

I have followed some of the suggested programs on T nation e.g. Anti BBH and I have just finished a 3 month cycle of Jim Wendlers 5/3/1

My diet has been relatively consistent and currently looks like this:

Bfast: 75g Porridge / 4 eggs
Post workout: Protein Shake (60g protein / 400ml milk) / Bannana
Lunch 1: 100g Chicken Breast / Avocado / Bannana / Apple
Lunch 2: 200g Tuna / tbsp Olive Oil / Lettuce / Bannana / Apple
Dinner: Varies - usually consists portion of protein / 100g Carb (Rice / Pasta / Potatoes) / Small amounts of Veg

Non - training days I have Protein Shake inbetween Lunch 1 + 2

I train 4 days a week and in addition to resistance I do about 5 - 10 mins treadmill hill sprints

On top of this I play football about twice a week for about 40 - 90mins

My 1RM are currently:

BP - 165lb
Front Squat - 176lb
Deadlift - 242lb
Mil Press - 143 lb
Pull ups - Can do approx 7 - 10 (in one go) from 0 at start of training

Is this progress decent or sub par?

If so does anyone have any reccommendations for improvements?

Cheers

Adam

2

I’d try and throw another meal in (before bed) if you can.
Dumb question, but is football, football or soccer?

3

Soccer

BTW forgot to mention - my main goal is to add muscle mass and try to get close to 192lbs

4

Why front squats and not just squats?

5

Its atleast progress and if you want faster progress then eat more.

Just keep at it and stick with 5/3/1 and you will keep progressing. Rome wasnt buildt in one day etc blah blah…

6

Your progress is way too slow.

I hit the 225 bench / 405 deadlift marker in under 6 months of training , and seeing how you have been doing this 3x the amount of that with much lower numbers, it’s indicating something very wrong.

You are way too much of a newb to be on 5/3/1. Don’t make the mistake everybody else makes. For some reason they have program A.D.D and cant just use a damn simple 5x5/3x5 program 3x a week (It just bewilders me…as it has been shown time and time again consistently that they get crap results compared to what they could have if they just followed it…).

OP. To put it into perspective, I started with 45 pounds on the bar for Squats, and didn’t have one single stall until 200x3x5…and the next session I did 200x3x5 no problem,then 205x3x5,then 210x3x5 and had no stalls until 225 or something; and then it just keeps going…

I would say look into Starting Strength, but I despise that program with a passion because it produces 300-400 squats/deadlifts with crap 165-185 twig benchers that have zero upper body.

My better suggestion is to look into REGPARKS 5x5; I have put on slabs of muscle and strength with this program - it is essentially the SAME as Starting Strength, except there are MORE EXERCISES eventually and you don’t ALTERNATE WORKOUTS. You Bench…Press…Row…Deadlift…Bicep Curl,etc. EVERY WORKOUT…Monday,Wednesday,Friday.

Look it up; it’s on T-Nation or just google search "Reg Parks 5x5 ".

I would start with Phase2 because you’ve already trained so long.

If the man got to a 500 bench , 600+squat, and 700+ deadlift using it; surely you can achieve at least a 2/3/4plate before deciding to go to whatever you want to do…

7

Don’t worry OP, Ethan7X tells everyone to do 5x5.

Follow KingBeef’s ideas if you are aiming for mass at the moment: Do This Routine Instead of That Dumb One - Competitive Bodybuilding - Forums - T Nation.

And eat more. Much more. Some carbs wouldn’t kill you :wink:

Edit: you’ve made some progress, but I would expect more from two years of training.

8

for 18 months progress that isn’t impressive at all. That’s only going off your weight increase. It’s progress, but it’s not anywhere near what you probably could have accomplished. I don’t know how, but your military is pretty high compared to your other lifts, but it is not exactly jaw dropping. That said, all your lifts are very low, especially for 18 months training. You gained less then a pound a month, that’s not exactly quick.

Push yourself way way WAY harder in the weight room. Regparks isn’t the only solution, but for someone who clearly does not know about pushing themselves and setting up progression it might be a better option for you then 5/3/1. Might be the first and only time I’ll ever suggest a 3x a week routine to someone, but im with Ethan that Starting Strength isn’t ideal for people who want a balanced physique.

The ONLY reason I’d even suggest Regparks is because of how low your lifts are for how long you’ve been lifting. You need to be adding weight to your lifts every week at your level of development. Even eating maintaince calories you should be lifting more then that just from your body learning the movements. Again, learn what it means to actually push yourself, both in the weight room and kitchen.

9

In no way am I suggesting that’s the only solution or anything like that.

Whatever 5x5 or 3x5 program he chooses is fine!!! I just stated the name of one that doesn’t yield crap upper body results , like Starting Strength which has just been a complete utter failure in helping people develop their upper body.

It’s not like any of these 3x5 or 5x5 programs are magic - they’re just damn simple and straight to the point!! Just get on ANY of them and train each lift with high frequency adding weight!!!

THAT’S IT !!!

And like they also said, your progress is literally like 30% of where it should/could be.

You need to get stronger and bigger,push yourself harder, and most likely eat more!!

10

Height and age plz?
Especially age.

Ignore posters that joined the site 2 weeks ago and think they know it all at 21 years old, and begin their posts with “I did this and this happened, so you should be exactly the same”.

Too many variables, and assumedly different starting points for comparison. 5/3/1 is just fine for a beginner. It keeps things simple/focused.

That being said, it doesn’t look like you’re eating enough to really gain muscle, especially since you’re playing soccer. Up the calories.

Good luck!

11

I don’t see why he should continue doing something that everybody has agreed gave him piss poor progress in comparison to what he could have had.

Everybody in the right mind would NEVER SUGGEST 5/3/1 to a complete amateur newb who is deadlifting less than the local crossfit girls.

Please think before you type,and no I’m not trying to be arrogant or a Jerk by any means.I was only trying to be helpful and informative giving out basic regurgitated information that anybody who is remotely experienced at all would give.

How could you even fathom to tell him to keep doing what has failed him;do you even think before you talk, or are you just trying to Worship Wendler’s program or something? Wendler himself probably wouldn’t give this man his program to use, he would tell him to train hard, train more, and eat more. Not run a specialized program designed for top lifters or at least high intermediate/remotely advanced people to squelch out 5-10pounds a month on lifts. This is mind boggling to me.

Yes~~~ let’s all tell a beginner to add 5-10 pounds to his deadlift a month when some random chick I have as a facebook friend who is a 105pound girl that has barely trained for a few months is adding 10pounds to her deadlift a WEEK at the same DL Weight(nvm,actually more) than OP is at after 18 months.

Also:
@The person posting above me, I don’t mean to be a jerk,but since you’re being one to me… I am a beginner and already bigger and leaner than you. You literally look like all your measurements are at least 1.5-2 inches less than mine while carrying more bodyfat. No offense.

Once again, I was only looking out for the BEST INTEREST of OP. I didn’t care about anything else, and whether it’s Mark Rippetoe, Bill Starr, Arnold, Reg Park, Ronnie Coleman, Franco Columbo, or about 90% of people from bodybuilding.com forums, or T-Nation forums, or hell…even people in THIS THREAD SUGGESTING HIM THE SAME THING… it’s not really like I suggested something out of this world. All of those people would/did/do suggest the same. I suggested something guaranteed to benefit him, like it did for me, and every single other person who did/does it in beginning their training career and foundation.

/rant

(EDIT: Just to show I wasn’t lying or joking. http://www.facebook.com/rachael.freia . Some random girl I added that I am friends with on facebook because she’s mutual friends with somebody else I know.I have literally seen her upload a 225 then 235 then 245 then 255 video week after week consecutively; but I suppose the MALE OP who weighs 50 pounds more and has 1.5+ years more experience is incapable.Clearly.)

12

Eat more and watch your numbers magically go up. I ate in 2 meals what you eat through out the day when I was 150 pounds.

And to all the people that keep saying he should have made a lot more progress in 18 months, clearly the OP stated he has gone to the gym without any goal nor any knowledge of what to do. Knowing that, along with soccer practice and a nonexistent diet, how is someone suppose to make gains in those 18 months? He’s learned and is now on a third cycle of 5/3/1, which if you didn’t know is three months. His progress isn’t amazing and his lifts aren’t amazing, but it’s progress, no? Running the 5x5’s and 3x5’s, in my experience DO NOT work with other sports involved.

I played an hour or so of american football on sunday, before a monday, a heavy day on madcow. I was not able to complete the reps, my body was just too sore. 5x5 ramped up or even 5x5 across on a volume day of the Texas Method is gruesome.

I started wrestling practice while on SS as well. I couldn’t get the first set by myself in an entire week’s session. Being burnt out and having to reset is painful when you’re doing it every week or two. Why not just progress from month to month and feel refreshed after every month?

I’m not bashing these programs, I have run them myself and I’ve seen great success. They were what pulled me into powerlifting. But if you play sports, like the OP does, these programs get increasingly harder and will interfere with your outside activities.

Consistency is king.

13

Are you sure they don’t work,because it’s basically what every single professional NFL team’s coaches has their players run for their Cleans,Power Cleans,Jerks,Squats,Benches,Presses,Snatches,etc., and I know at least a dozen Rugby/football college players running that as the staple of their programs because that’s what the coaches prescribe? OP, by all means continue running 5/3/1 with a 240 deadlift, if you are happy with that then just be happy. If you feel like hitting a 405 by 2 months or less from now, then feel free to actually do what essentially everybody else would suggest.

14

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I don’t see why he should continue doing something that everybody has agreed gave him piss poor progress in comparison to what he could have had.

Everybody in the right mind would NEVER SUGGEST 5/3/1 to a complete amateur newb who is deadlifting less than the local crossfit girls.

Please think before you type,and no I’m not trying to be arrogant or a Jerk by any means.I was only trying to be helpful and informative giving out basic regurgitated information that anybody who is remotely experienced at all would give.

How could you even fathom to tell him to keep doing what has failed him;do you even think before you talk, or are you just trying to Worship Wendler’s program or something? Wendler himself probably wouldn’t give this man his program to use, he would tell him to train hard, train more, and eat more. Not run a specialized program designed for top lifters or at least high intermediate/remotely advanced people to squelch out 5-10pounds a month on lifts. This is mind boggling to me.

Yes~~~ let’s all tell a beginner to add 5-10 pounds to his deadlift a month when some random chick I have as a facebook friend who is a 105pound girl that has barely trained for a few months is adding 10pounds to her deadlift a WEEK at the same DL Weight(nvm,actually more) than OP is at after 18 months.

Also:
@The person posting above me, I don’t mean to be a jerk,but since you’re being one to me… I am a beginner and already bigger and leaner than you. You literally look like all your measurements are at least 1.5-2 inches less than mine while carrying more bodyfat. No offense.

[/quote]

I said 5/3/1 doesn’t seem to be the problem, diet does. We also still don’t know how old this guy is anyway. Makes a difference if he’s 15 or 50, right?

5/3/1 is absolutely a good beginner program, I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be. For you (as a beginner yourself) to say “no one in their right mind would suggest it” is a bit silly. You don’t know that. I don’t think you really understand what 5/3/1 actually is. 5/3/1 is NOT a program for high level lifters, it’s pretty much the opposite. Wendler created the template when he was pressing about 100lbs, coming off injuries and a lay off from the gym, from what I recall. He did NOT use this when he was an elite lifter.

You sure you’re bigger than me? I’ve taped my arms at 17, and I’m not exactly a fatty (and if you look at my before picture, you can see that’s about a 5" gain from where I started.). Regardless, my stats are immaterial to the conversation. This is about programming, and determining where the OP is falling short. I think we agree on the food thing, he’s lacking proper caloric intake given his activity level.

15

Please explain this to me, looking at these 2 following possibilities.

  1. Program A adds ~10 pounds to a lift at his level in ~30 days

  2. Program B adds ~10 pounds to a lift at his level in 4 days

Program A takes 7X + longer to increase the same poundage.

Why shouldn’t he do B and just short himself instead?

?

16

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Please explain this to me, looking at these 2 following possibilities.

  1. Program A adds ~10 pounds to a lift at his level in ~30 days

  2. Program B adds ~10 pounds to a lift at his level in 4 days

Program A takes 7X + longer to increase the same poundage.

Why shouldn’t he do B and just short himself instead?

?[/quote]

Because a) it’s not like those gains are guaranteed.
b) the 10 lbs in 5/3/1 you’re talking about are training maxes. Have you even read the program? On the last set of each workout, you the 5,3,or 1 reps are MINIMUMS. You do more reps than that, so you’re working to your own capacity. Just because your training max only goes up 10 lbs from one month to the next, does NOT mean your ACTUAL max has only gone up 10 lbs. If my training max on squat is 200 the first month, and 210 the second month, but I hit 200x5 the first and 210 for 8 the second, wouldn’t that indicate to you that ACTUAL max has gone up more than 10 lbs. Of course. And the scenario I just described is absolutely realistic. You end up putting enough work into each lift to gain a lot of strength quickly, and if you do the big but boring assistance work, you’re adding 5 more sets of 10 to each major lift.

17

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Are you sure they don’t work,because it’s basically what every single professional NFL team’s coaches has their players run for their Cleans,Power Cleans,Jerks,Squats,Benches,Presses,Snatches,etc., and I know at least a dozen Rugby/football college players running that as the staple of their programs because that’s what the coaches prescribe? OP, by all means continue running 5/3/1 with a 240 deadlift, if you are happy with that then just be happy. If you feel like hitting a 405 by 2 months or less from now, then feel free to actually do what essentially everybody else would suggest.[/quote]

basically what every single professional NFL team run compound movements. lol, You know how they train how? And of course there will be compound movements like the ones you mentioned. I don’t see your point. I don’t know ANY coaches or teams running SS or TM to their athletes. I’ve seen them run WS4SB, Joe Defranco being one of them. I know a few friends during lacrosse season running 2-day splits of 5/3/1. I’m pretty sure there are people that run 3x5s or 5x5s but I don’t know any

18

Flipcollar, I would actually be willing to lay down a $100 bet that OP could add 10-20 pounds in 1 week. At his level, I would actually be willing to wager that since it is & has been shown,proven,and demonstrated over and over to be time and time guaranteed(please feel free to look at Starting Strength forums or something to see people’s results), and if a 105pound girl with a few months training experience is still doing it, I’m sure he can too. lol.

19

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Flipcollar, I would actually be willing to lay down a $100 bet that OP could add 10-20 pounds in 1 week. At his level, I would actually be willing to wager that since it is & has been shown,proven,and demonstrated over and over to be time and time guaranteed(please feel free to look at Starting Strength forums or something to see people’s results), and if a 105pound girl with a few months training experience is still doing it, I’m sure he can too. lol.
[/quote]

Again, we don’t know his age, and that makes a difference.
That being said, I would agree with you. Nothing in my last post contradicts that. Did you even read what I said? TRAINING MAXES ARE NOT ACTUAL MAXES IN 5 3 1. Holy fuckballz, catch up!
I’ve had months running 5 3 1 where I’ve gained more on my actual max than 10 lbs, and I’m lifting a lot more weight than he is. Hell, I hit a 10 lb pr on OHP and 20 on squat in the last week. That doesn’t mean my training maxes had to go up by that amount.

EDIT: No need to respond to me, I put you on ignore

20

Can somebody please bump Blind leading the Blind for Ethan7X’s sake…