On a previous post discussing ZMA I asked if anyone had tried both ZMA and Melatonin as I am currently on Melatonin and was thinking of switching. Well no seems to be but everyone seems to rave about ZMA so I bought some today. Tonight will be the first time I use them. I will try and post about my thoughts on these pills vs. Melatonin.
Hopefully tomorrow, after week one and again after the bottle is finished. Guess I should get ready for some twisted dreams.
I’ve tried both but at seperate times. The ZMA had no effects for me, no fancy dreams either. I couldn’t tell any difference with melatonin as well. I’ve tried the bottle’s recommended dose and even tripled it (both zma and melatonin.
I’ve yet to try Z12. I get really restful sleep on days that I take Spike though.
Oh here’s some another viewpoint for melatonin:
[quote]A word about melatonin. Melatonin was first discovered because it blanches the skin of frogs. Footnote - click to read. Next it was learned that in small animals, melatonin can make the gonads atrophy Footnote - click to read. Indeed, there is evidence that melatonin interferes with gonadal functions in humans, so it is probably risky for sex and fertility. In some mammals, melatonin whitens the fur or promotes obesity Footnote - click to read. Considerable evidence indicates that melatonin might cause depression. Melatonin causes headache and nightmares. In animals, melatonin constricts brain blood vessels and affects the arteries of the heart. In humans, melatonin affects blood pressure. Melatonin is a hormone of darkness.
It has been claimed that melatonin is useful for treatment of insomnia. In most studies, the sleep benefit is very weak or completely absent. Some meta-analyses have concluded that melatonin is ineffective as a sleeping pill.[/quote]
By Daniel F. Kripke, M.D.
I used melatonin every night for 4 years, then switched to ZMA, but I still use melatonin as needed. I don’t know why it needs to be one or the other, you can use both.
Z-12 didn’t really do anything for me. Working on reducing stress, keeping my bedroom dark, other simple stuff did a lot more.
As far as I know supplementing with Melatonin for the purpose of better sleep only works if you are deficient in that mineral. Most people are so it works for quite some time, once you are back to optimal levels though supposedly it stops being effective. That’s where ZMA comes in.
I use ZMA. It helps me sleep. I will warn you that you will experience more vivid dreams (some good and some not so good). You will also wake up feeling slightly groggy.
i have never experienced any level of grogginess while taking ZMA. in fact, i wake up feeling noticeably more refreshed the morning after ZMA compared to a morning after nothing.
I would not recommend using melatonin on a regular basis w/out a doctor’s order
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
As far as I know supplementing with Melatonin for the purpose of better sleep only works if you are deficient in that mineral. Most people are so it works for quite some time, once you are back to optimal levels though supposedly it stops being effective. That’s where ZMA comes in.[/quote]
I think you’re mixing up melatonin and ZMA.
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
As far as I know supplementing with Melatonin for the purpose of better sleep only works if you are deficient in that mineral. Most people are so it works for quite some time, once you are back to optimal levels though supposedly it stops being effective. That’s where ZMA comes in.[/quote]
I think you’re mixing up melatonin and ZMA.[/quote]
No, Waylanderxx is correct. Melatonin is a naturally secreted compound, however, some individuals do not produce enough to maintain sound sleep, and that is why supplementation works so well in some cases.
As with any other naturally produced compounds, it should be noted that using melatonin on a consistent basis will que your body to make even less, thus those that already produce low amounts or have trouble sleeping should consider cycling it, so as not to worsen their already existent problem.
Yeah, what waylander said. As melatonin never did dick for me, I must’ve never been deficient.
Eventually I stumbled upon any otc sleep aid + Z-12 and problem solved. I’ve also been using Biotest’s ELITEPRO for the past few months.
[quote]Mouldsie wrote:
I would not recommend using melatonin on a regular basis w/out a doctor’s order[/quote]
Why?
You shouldn’t regularly take melatonin because if you do, your body will stop naturally producing it.
[quote]MrZsasz wrote:
[quote]Mouldsie wrote:
I would not recommend using melatonin on a regular basis w/out a doctor’s order[/quote]
Why?[/quote]
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with this doctor, but here’s some stuff to make you think about melatonin:
[quote]
A word about melatonin. Melatonin was first discovered because it blanches the skin of frogs. Footnote - click to read. Next it was learned that in small animals, melatonin can make the gonads atrophy Footnote - click to read. Indeed, there is evidence that melatonin interferes with gonadal functions in humans, so it is probably risky for sex and fertility. In some mammals, melatonin whitens the fur or promotes obesity Footnote - click to read. Considerable evidence indicates that melatonin might cause depression. Melatonin causes headache and nightmares. In animals, melatonin constricts brain blood vessels and affects the arteries of the heart. In humans, melatonin affects blood pressure. Melatonin is a hormone of darkness.
It has been claimed that melatonin is useful for treatment of insomnia. In most studies, the sleep benefit is very weak or completely absent. Some meta-analyses have concluded that melatonin is ineffective as a sleeping pill.[/quote]
from Daniel F. Kripke, M.D.
From: The Dark Side of Sleeping Pills: Mortality and Cancer Risks, Which Pills to Avoid & Better Alternatives
Daniel F. Kripke, M.D.
[quote]A word about melatonin. Melatonin was first discovered because it blanches the skin of frogs. Footnote - click to read. Next it was learned that in small animals, melatonin can make the gonads atrophy Footnote - click to read. Indeed, there is evidence that melatonin interferes with gonadal functions in humans, so it is probably risky for sex and fertility. In some mammals, melatonin whitens the fur or promotes obesity Footnote - click to read. Considerable evidence indicates that melatonin might cause depression. Melatonin causes headache and nightmares. In animals, melatonin constricts brain blood vessels and affects the arteries of the heart. In humans, melatonin affects blood pressure. Melatonin is a hormone of darkness.
It has been claimed that melatonin is useful for treatment of insomnia. In most studies, the sleep benefit is very weak or completely absent. Some meta-analyses have concluded that melatonin is ineffective as a sleeping pill.[/quote]
Last year I was hospitalized for two weeks and had access to all the sleeping pills they provided. Everything the doc above mentioned regarding sleeping pills, I experienced (my sleep was worse when on sleeping pills). So I’ll assume he “might” be right regarding melatonin.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
As far as I know supplementing with Melatonin for the purpose of better sleep only works if you are deficient in that mineral. Most people are so it works for quite some time, once you are back to optimal levels though supposedly it stops being effective. That’s where ZMA comes in.[/quote]
I think you’re mixing up melatonin and ZMA.[/quote]
No, Waylanderxx is correct. Melatonin is a naturally secreted compound, however, some individuals do not produce enough to maintain sound sleep, and that is why supplementation works so well in some cases.
As with any other naturally produced compounds, it should be noted that using melatonin on a consistent basis will que your body to make even less, thus those that already produce low amounts or have trouble sleeping should consider cycling it, so as not to worsen their already existent problem.[/quote]
Melatonin is a hormone. Magnesium is a mineral. Magnesium is the one that’s effective only if you’re deficent. Melatonin is the one that becomes less effective over time.
Well I’ve done the ZMA for two nights and I must say that at first I was not impressed. The first night it took me forever to fall asleep so by the time my alarm went off I didn’t even get 7 1/2 hrs of sleep, so i can’t judge it on that alone. Last night I seemed to fall asleep a little easier but still a struggle, which it has been for years even before melatonin.
I can’t make a judgment yet; I do wake up groggy but I seem to be getting through the days a bit better then before. Dream wise last night I had some weird ones, but I’ve always had weird dreams.
Melatonin seemed to help me fall asleep a bit better but after two years I want to give it a break. Once my body resets I may go back on it sporadically and stay on ZMA if I find it works over time.
Will keep the post updated.
On a side note I was on melatonin on a doctors orders as I said I wanted to come off prescription sleeping pills as they were too strong and I had missed work because of them (alarm would go off and I would turn it off without realizing it); he never said anything about cycling them, but it makes sense.
Melatonin
For me, melatonin forces sleep. E.g. people use it to combat jet lag and re-adjust their internal clocks. I took a healthy dose one night flying out of Miami… and woke up 10 ours when we were landing in Rio. It is not as good as getting a full night’s sleep outright - but it will help you get to sleep and stay asleep if/when needed
ZMA
Don’t like it. B6 will impact my dreams, usually in a good way. But for some reason the cocktail in ZMA always results in edgy/bad dreams and a fitful night of sleep.
Z12
Puts me quickly into a solid state of sleep and I won’t wake up for 8 hours. Impressive. Still not as good as a “clean” 8 hours of sleep, but better than not getting 8 hours for some reason.
Melatonin always makes me feel super groggy, where with ZMA I awake feeling more refreshed. I get a similar, although more probounced effect from Elitepro Minerals. Good stuff.
However, Z-12 is the absolute best when I need to either catch up on sleep or make sure I get a solid night of rest before an important day.
Z-12 is a little pricey for me to use everyday. As far as the groggy-ness I think it may have to do a bit with the fact that even with the ZMA I wake up before my alarm and need to fall back asleep, or else i wouldn’t even get 7hrs.
Can’t melatonin become habit forming? I use it when all else fails for helping me to go to sleep, and setting up a new sleeping schedule such as when starting classes or a new job. I won’t take it for more than 3 nights in a row.
I just take the Mg+Zn supp I can find at walmart because it’s cheap. It also works wonders for me. Without it, I’ll never get to sleep if I did a workout in the evening and it seems to help recovery a lot. It’ll knock me out if I double dose on it.
Now if I’m feeling sick and the symptoms won’t let me sleep (as in a cold or flu) or if I’m retardedly wired from severe emotional stress I’ll take 4 benadryl over the course of an hour and down half a bottle of robitussin and let my head meet my pillow when I start to see black and colored spots in my field of vision. Don’t do it if you have obligations the next morning because in my experience, I didn’t want to wake up till 14 hours later.