Machine, and we look forward to hearing how this approach treats you.
Machine: Same thing here. Body temp stays high, but in terms of focus, appetite, and icy fingers, it was definitely time for a refeed. Looking at a couple months of data, it seems to be about a day early, though I’ve kept carbs at 100g. I’m moving to lower carbs now, extrapolating from Bill Robert’s advice. From what you’re saying, timing may change again just from that; thanks for the post.
Ive been on a three weeks break from the T-Dawg Diet, but from as today Im back on. Having read this huge thread made me decide to swap the cheat meal for a more scientifically approached “refeed”.
However, I still have some questions about it. I know the refeed should consist of high-GI carbs, minimum fat and moderate protein, but what caloric intake should I have?
When you say 1.3-1.4 times maintanence, is this the energy intake for the whole day, or merely for the reefed-period? And what number should I use for maintanance? There are lots of ways to calculate “maintanance”, and they all differ in result, especially Berardi`s. When Im on T-Dawg I consume about 2000-2200 a day.
SquatMan: I’ll post some info later today when I have access to my documents to help clear things up.
Here is an excerpt from an article I wrote a while ago; hopefully this clears things up. If going with approach number one, just precede the overfeed with your regular diet:
"Approach #1: Two, eight-hour weekly overfeeds. Each overfeed should be equal to .625 times your maintenance caloric intake and two to three days should separate each session; an example of this would be to overfeed on Wednesday and Sunday of each week. If you are uncertain as to what your maintenance caloric intake is, multiply your lean body mass (body weight ? fat mass) by 15 to obtain a rough estimate. Should you choose this approach, simply stick to your fat loss dietary regimen prior to the overfeeding period. Also, give your diet at least a week to “set in” before your first session.
Approach #2: One, sixteen-hour weekly overfeed. The overfeed should be equal to 1.25 times your maintenance caloric intake and should be conducted once per week. An example of this would be to overfeed every Sunday, as most people are awake for 16 hours each day.
In case you didn’t notice, the two approaches are equal from a weekly caloric perspective. The first approach is simply half the length and caloric value of the second, but performed twice weekly as opposed to only once. Is one approach better than the other? In terms of restoring fallen leptin levels and accelerating fat loss, probably not; however, individuals who tend to lose control with longer overfeeding sessions may prefer the twice-weekly approach. Others may say that they prefer the longer overfeed to the shorter as it causes them to feel more satiated. Each method has its benefits and drawbacks, so choose the one that best suits your needs."
Take care,
Joel
Thanks for the help!
I will probably do the once-a-week version, as it fits nicely into the rest of T-Dawg scheme.
I went from about 15% BF to below 10 on the T-Dawg Diet, and as my progress was so good I took a couple of weeks break from it, as it didnt seem it would be a problem to reach my goal by the summer. The cheat-sessions have gone a bit overboard a couple of times though, and a couple of times I got put back a week or two when I really overkilled on fatty foods. So Im looking forward to following a more rigid plan.
Im curious if beer is a good carb-refeed. Its cleary high GI, with no fat, so in theory it should be excellent, shouldnt it?
Squatman- In moderation; alcohol certainly isn’t something you want to be taking in excessive amounts of, as it is pretty detrimental to T-levels. And since it’s never been studied (that I know of), who knows what kind of effect alcohol will have on a refeed/overfeed from both a leptin and glycogen replenishment standpoint.
Alcohol will slow the metabolism and inhibit fat burning…it also causes an atagonistic between ketones and insulin in the bloodstream
I want to elaborate but I don’t have time…at work
Vain
I know that a couple of fellow grad students are doing some work with alcohol and endurance training, so they’ve got a good background in this.
In addition to the points Vizzy made, I do think that alcohol is both detrimental to glycogen synthesis and gluconeogenesis (the latter doesn’t matter in this particular instance, per se), but I’ll have to verify that.
Speaking of endurance training, I found an interesting study on leptin and endurance exercise if anyone would like me to post it…
Alcohol in moderation, noted.
I have one final pondering though. Isnt this refeed supposed to be a slight overfeeding? But my maintainance caloric intake is per definiton the energy I spend just staying in bed for 24 hours, right?
Im certain that even if I go 1.25 times that number my energy output will be greater than my energy intake…
Machine - yeah definitely post that study. I’ve been trying to get more info on leptin the past few weeks
-Hogan-
Squatman, no that’s your resting metabolic rate. Your maintenance rate is what you need to eat after figuring in activity levels, RMR, thermal effects of food, etc. A good point of reference for most trainers is 15cal/lb. Even if you use any of the calculations on T-mag, realize that they are just generalizations. Only you will truly know how much you should be eating. Taking a 7 day food log and monitoring your bodyweight will help you figure out a ballpark on your maintenance rate. It takes months, sometimes years (it has taken me years) to really get a grasp on how much or how little food intake you need. And, to make matters worse, it constantly changes due to uncontrollable factors such as stress, pollutants, sleep, workouts, even air pressure can affect your metabolism. Oh crap, I’m just rambling on…damn caffeine…
In any case, I would start with 14cal/lb for women and 15cals for men, unless you are doing cardio, then you may want to eat a little more. Then, keep a detailed food log and work it from there.
Something I’m noticing is that the leaner I get, the more of a need for me to crap-feed. What I mean is, that I need to eat as much as possible during my 8 hour refeeds. I eat twinkies, hot pockets, whatever, I just make sure to get a LOT of carbs, enough protein, and whatever in fat. I find that I feel better on this and also that I lose fat more consistently. I’m averaging about .5mm or more of abdominal skinfold loss per refeed, and I refeed on Wed and Sun mornings, before I work out. Anothr six refeeds and I should be at my goal of 4-5mm abdominal. I do suspect that it will slow down as I get closer to my goal, so it might take a few more weeks. Maybe extra sprints are in order, or a little T3?
I don’t think that’s pretty good.
Perro: You’re not the only one, bro. I have individuals who do better with all out binges (from a fat loss perspective), then they do with controlled carbohydrate refeeds; it’s an individual thing. Just recognize that this won’t work for everyone and you need to have a variety of sound approaches to offer when giving advice and/or working with clients.
Joel
"I don’t think that’s pretty good. "
And your reasoning?
Hey guys. I’m in the middle of my first refeed of my first fat loss diet today, and it’s going great so far. One quick question, how is un-buttered popcorn for refeeds?
P.S. I felt fine my first 6 days under 100g of carbs - until last night, when I tried to do homework (tried to use my brain). Meltdown’s been just fine, but thinking just exhausted me!
Perro, I don’t like to speak on behalf of anyone, for fear of mincing words, but I would imagine the comment stemmed from the fact that you mentioned that fat intake really doesn’t matter in your scenario. I guess that just flies in the face of what is often recommended.
However, it sounds like you’re making fantastic progress. So I say, keep going! JB has a rather insightful quote in his signature that says something about every once in a while you often need to step back and take a look at the results rather than just the strategy. Something to that effect. You have obviously proven this statement correct, as I know I have as well.
Not to sure on the fat-laden refeeds, but like JM says, it it works for you, go with it.
Also see the post on insulin sensitivity and Lyle McDonald on the T/N forum for more info on many of these same issues.
Vain