I am really unsure why it works so well for me. I remember reading in Bodyopus or Lyle’s book, can’t remember which, that in the first few hours of a refeed, higher fat might not be stored as fat, even in the presence of insulin, b/c your body is adapted to burning the fat off as fuel…so, in an eight hour refeed, could it be possible that my body is still using the fat as energy and also storing the carbs as glycogen?
I’m seriously losing now around .75lb per refeed, and my abdominal skinfold is dropping accordingly. I am on tren/equipoise/anavar, so I am doubtful that I’m losing much, if any, LBM. Then again, the assistance kind of throws everything off, doesn’t it…lol.
I tell you what, those hot pockets, chocolate milk/Isopure shakes, and Little Debbies sure were good. mmm mmm
Guys, Im pretty new to the refeed idea, but thanks to Groove I got the copy of Joels “Overfeed to Succeed” article and have a few questions.
First of all, Ive been cutting for all of march using TAP style calculations with macro ratios of (33%,33%,33%) and a caloric deficit of 750 kcals. I was 118 kg and dropped to 115 kg, mostly in the first 2.5 weeks, - this plateau led me to believe that I need to incorporate refeeds. I dont have access to precise BF% measurements, but estimates were 18% before and now down to 16%.
I have now switched to JBs “Dont Diet” approach with 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight (now 114.5 kg) which put me at the following daily numbers for diet:
I already dropped another half kg since switching the diets. Since the diet is not too restrictive or extremely low carb, I plan to use a once a week (sunday) 16 hour refeed.
My question is the following: Do I use the maintenance kcals from the above calculations or "15LBM" to calculate the calories for my refeed ?? The difference is substantial: With 15LBM (estimated 209 lbs) I get 3135 kcals, - more than 1000 kcals lower than the maintenance number from the “Dont Diet” calculations.
Most have found the equations that Berardi uses yield a maintenance caloric intake that is much too high. I recommend 15xLBM for maintenance, but again, maintenance intake is all about trial and error. Still even for individuals with very fast metabolisms, rarely have I seen this number go above 18-19xLBM.
Anyway, if know through trial and error what your LBM multiplier is, then by all means, use that number as opposed to 15. 15 is just an estimate that I have found to well for “most” individuals.
Joel, - it appears to me that the main difference between JBs calculation and what I used before (TAP) is that he adds an extra 500 kcals to 22*bodyweight(in kg). Maybe this is where the difference comes in…
Well I recalculated after modifying JBs Dont Diet calculation to end up at my old (tested) maintenance of a bit less than 3900 kcals, so now my intake is
Protein: 327 g
Carbs: 250 g
Fat: 109 g
This maintenance still puts at a higher LBM multiplier than 15, more like 18. I will have my first refeed on sunday, - am planning how to get almost 800 g of carbs bought and eaten
Awesome thread, full of insight and ideas. I love it. This is my first post on this thread. I have a couple questions.
I’m 6’0" 174lb right now @ 7-8 bodyfat.
My maintenance is roughly 2400 kcals
Question #1
As far as Leptin levels go, is it the raising of calories that affects it, or the raising of carbs? Which one is more important? Are both required to be raised periodically?
Question #2
Is it the calorie defecit that affects Leptin or the low carbs?
I am consuming about 80g of carbs on “off” days and 130g on workout days (this is with the addition of Post-workout carbs in shake).
I’ve lowered my daily caloric level to 2100 to create a 300 kcal deficit from my maintenance. Are bi-weekly refeeds in line from someone with my diet and those stats?
First off new to the thread - some great info. There have been a few refferences to artilces written by Joel and others- I have found “Cheaters Diet” but can someone post or PM me links to some of the others?
Second - There were a few questions earlier in the thread about fixing a “shot” metabolism (due to prolonged dieting) but I did not see any replys. Any thoughts on that?
HUGE: Welcome! A ‘shot’ metabolism may come from a) loss of LBM or b) a drop in certain hormones, such as leptin and thyroid. I’m sure others can chip in with other causes.
LBM loss is reversed and prevented by heavy weight training (5x5 or similar).
Leptin levels are restored when you start taking in maintenance+ calories (as in the Cheater’s Diet).
Thyroid levels likewise. A supplements I’ve used successfully are Metabolic Thyrolean by TwinLab (see Will Brink’s article on T-Mag) and, presently, HotRox by BioTest.
IHateGymMorons: Question #1: Both. Increasing calories tells your body that it isn’t starving, and it’s okay to drop more weight. Leptin and insulin levels are correlated, so an insulin spike will provoke a rise in leptin.
Question #2: It’s the calorie deficit. Joel says something like “your leptin levels will still drop if you’re eating 1000kcal a day of carbs.”
Just wanted to chime in here about JMB’s caloric recommendations:
When eating “normally” (i.e., non-ME style), my calories were at Joel’s 18x LBM figure - about 2700-2800. (Even at age 40 I still have a very fast metabolism - sigh…) When I changed to the meal combining plan that goes with ME (P&F or P&C), I was able to eat about 3400 without gaining any weight.
Based on my own experience, I would say that there is a substantial difference in how much you eat as “maintenance” depending on whether you combine carbs and fat in your meals or not. And JMB’s recommendations, while high, do seem to pan out IF you’re doing the ME protocol. Otherwise, however, I would agree that they are much too high.
hhmmm…so that still put me in a bit of a dilemma: Since I assume your experiences are for bulking, does anyone have experiences whether the calorie-level for “Dont Diet” is too high or right ??
I think the best indicator of what your calories should be set at is the Harris-Benedict…then, take a solid average of your overall activity factor (including weight training, but not cardio) and multiply that factor by your BMR…add cardio calories burned then to get your mntc.
you can use excel or any stat software nicely
On the “The Issue of De Novo” thread you told someone that "at 10%, your leptin levels should be “o.k.” What about someone at 13%? Are you saying that even at a restricted caloric intake that I wouldn’t have a drop in my leptin levels?
