Your Clean Bulk Gains

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
^ Agree 100%. I was just hoping since this site seems to be filled with people who are concerned with their abs that maybe there’d be a couple people who kept their coveted six pack and gained muscle. Not because thats how I want to do it, but because I’m curious as to what kinds of gains these guys are actually making. But as already been stated, the lack of response shows otherwise. I don’t know why people are trying to lecture me regarding eating a surplus of calories to get big tho. I’ve already stated that for my body I know I need to do a real bulk to gain any sort of mass, been there done that. The point of this thread wasn’t to learn how I can stay lean and build muscle, it was to better understand the body and know what is possible in regards to gaining muscle while keeping lean (which is relative, but I was really hoping to hear from the people who advocate not over eating or gaining fat to get big). I guess I assumed there were more people on this site with that mentality then there really are.[/quote]

No, you assumed that people worried about abs are actually making good progress. Most of them aren’t. the rest won’t even post pictures. So, when you ask who has stayed under 10% body fat while gaining a ton of muscle, the point to take home is that the largest and strongest on this site DID NOT. The small guys who never stand out have.

There are likely TONS of guys here worried about abs and afraid to eat to grow. The thing is, that is the exact environment that LIMITS any further progress.

[/quote]

No, I did not assume those people were making good progress. Had you actually read my posts you’d see that I made statements like, “if someone had asked me if they could gain 30lbs of muscle without gaining fat, I would’ve said no” or “I know for me I cannot gain mass without going on a serious bulk” or “I did think it was impressive that this kid put on 30lbs of muscle with little fat gain”. These statements indicate the contrary, that I do NOT believe people staying lean are making good progress. But you and others on this site are so fkn quick to flame anyone who even mentions the word abs or lean in these forums despite the fact that the I’ve made it clear that like you I think the best way to make progress is thru a real bulk.

What amazes me X is that you ask the same damn question that I asked in my original post “I wonder how much progress these guys are actually making”, yet when you say it it’s not assumed that you believe these guys are making good progress, but when I ask the question I MUST believe that these guys are making good progress.

Allow me to reiterate! The OP was not asking what the best way to build muscle is, the OP was for the guys who do their best not to gain fat and keep their 6 pack all year round, how much progress are you making on average.

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[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
^ Agree 100%. I was just hoping since this site seems to be filled with people who are concerned with their abs that maybe there’d be a couple people who kept their coveted six pack and gained muscle. Not because thats how I want to do it, but because I’m curious as to what kinds of gains these guys are actually making. But as already been stated, the lack of response shows otherwise. I don’t know why people are trying to lecture me regarding eating a surplus of calories to get big tho. I’ve already stated that for my body I know I need to do a real bulk to gain any sort of mass, been there done that. The point of this thread wasn’t to learn how I can stay lean and build muscle, it was to better understand the body and know what is possible in regards to gaining muscle while keeping lean (which is relative, but I was really hoping to hear from the people who advocate not over eating or gaining fat to get big). I guess I assumed there were more people on this site with that mentality then there really are.[/quote]

No, you assumed that people worried about abs are actually making good progress. Most of them aren’t. the rest won’t even post pictures. So, when you ask who has stayed under 10% body fat while gaining a ton of muscle, the point to take home is that the largest and strongest on this site DID NOT. The small guys who never stand out have.

There are likely TONS of guys here worried about abs and afraid to eat to grow. The thing is, that is the exact environment that LIMITS any further progress.

[/quote]

No, I did not assume those people were making good progress. Had you actually read my posts you’d see that I made statements like, “if someone had asked me if they could gain 30lbs of muscle without gaining fat, I would’ve said no” or “I know for me I cannot gain mass without going on a serious bulk” or “I did think it was impressive that this kid put on 30lbs of muscle with little fat gain”. These statements indicate the contrary, that I do NOT believe people staying lean are making good progress. But you and others on this site are so fkn quick to flame anyone who even mentions the word abs or lean in these forums despite the fact that the I’ve made it clear that like you I think the best way to make progress is thru a real bulk.

What amazes me X is that you ask the same damn question that I asked in my original post “I wonder how much progress these guys are actually making”, yet when you say it it’s not assumed that you believe these guys are making good progress, but when I ask the question I MUST believe that these guys are making good progress.

Allow me to reiterate! The OP was not asking what the best way to build muscle is, the OP was for the guys who do their best not to gain fat and keep their 6 pack all year round, how much progress are you making on average. [/quote]

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!!

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it should be mandatory for people to keep actual pics of themselves in their profile. With an updated pic ever two months of so… that way people could see if the “interweb expertz” know what they’re talking about or are actually progressing and it would probably end a bunch of these threads. Thats what I think… well maybe not exactly that but something similar to that

.greg.

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[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

Allow me to reiterate! The OP was not asking what the best way to build muscle is, the OP was for the guys who do their best not to gain fat and keep their 6 pack all year round, how much progress are you making on average. [/quote]

It has already been answered. KingBeef is the only person who has stepped forward as saying he makes progress at a low fat percentage. Aside from him, it would seem that the people who are trying to keep a six-pack all year 'round aren’t making any progress!

So, rare exceptions aside, the progress they are making on average = 0 (or damn close to it)

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[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
^ Agree 100%. I was just hoping since this site seems to be filled with people who are concerned with their abs that maybe there’d be a couple people who kept their coveted six pack and gained muscle. Not because thats how I want to do it, but because I’m curious as to what kinds of gains these guys are actually making. But as already been stated, the lack of response shows otherwise. I don’t know why people are trying to lecture me regarding eating a surplus of calories to get big tho. I’ve already stated that for my body I know I need to do a real bulk to gain any sort of mass, been there done that. The point of this thread wasn’t to learn how I can stay lean and build muscle, it was to better understand the body and know what is possible in regards to gaining muscle while keeping lean (which is relative, but I was really hoping to hear from the people who advocate not over eating or gaining fat to get big). I guess I assumed there were more people on this site with that mentality then there really are.[/quote]

No, you assumed that people worried about abs are actually making good progress. Most of them aren’t. the rest won’t even post pictures. So, when you ask who has stayed under 10% body fat while gaining a ton of muscle, the point to take home is that the largest and strongest on this site DID NOT. The small guys who never stand out have.

There are likely TONS of guys here worried about abs and afraid to eat to grow. The thing is, that is the exact environment that LIMITS any further progress.

[/quote]

No, I did not assume those people were making good progress. Had you actually read my posts you’d see that I made statements like, “if someone had asked me if they could gain 30lbs of muscle without gaining fat, I would’ve said no” or “I know for me I cannot gain mass without going on a serious bulk” or “I did think it was impressive that this kid put on 30lbs of muscle with little fat gain”. These statements indicate the contrary, that I do NOT believe people staying lean are making good progress. But you and others on this site are so fkn quick to flame anyone who even mentions the word abs or lean in these forums despite the fact that the I’ve made it clear that like you I think the best way to make progress is thru a real bulk.

What amazes me X is that you ask the same damn question that I asked in my original post “I wonder how much progress these guys are actually making”, yet when you say it it’s not assumed that you believe these guys are making good progress, but when I ask the question I MUST believe that these guys are making good progress.

Allow me to reiterate! The OP was not asking what the best way to build muscle is, the OP was for the guys who do their best not to gain fat and keep their 6 pack all year round, how much progress are you making on average. [/quote]

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

people in glass houses cant throw stones :wink:

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[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looks at Celtics Avi again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh geez, I needed a good laugh. Please find something heavy bro, and pick it up. Your physique is no where even in the same vicinity as someone who has the right to talk down to anyone!

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

Allow me to reiterate! The OP was not asking what the best way to build muscle is, the OP was for the guys who do their best not to gain fat and keep their 6 pack all year round, how much progress are you making on average. [/quote]

It has already been answered. KingBeef is the only person who has stepped forward as saying he makes progress at a low fat percentage. Aside from him, it would seem that the people who are trying to keep a six-pack all year 'round aren’t making any progress!

So, rare exceptions aside, the progress they are making on average = 0 (or damn close to it)[/quote]

I apologize, I was not asking the question again, I was simply clarifying the original question to X, he seemed to misinterprate my question as meaning that was my stance on muscle growth. I appreciate kingbeefs post and realize that he is probably one of a very select few on this site who managed to accomplish what I originally asked. I know that I for one cannot and give props to KingBeef and anyone with the discipline and genetics to accomplish their goals while staying lean. Hats off to you kingbeef!

127

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I’ve been training for more then a year now, and I managed to go from 140 to about 210 now, while maintaining my abs the whole time. Now, I did get some many “love handles” and my abs weren’t as defined and deep as they were when i was skinny cross country runner, but i definatly kept a full 6-pack through out. Am I big? noway. I’m 6’3", so 210 doesnt look massove on my lanky frame. but by getting about 1.5 grams per lbs of protein, and keeping carbs in early in the day and around workouts, i think I did as clean a bulk I could have done, even though it wasn’t my intention[/quote]

Guy, at 6’3", you should be EASILY walking around at over 220lbs with minimal effort assuming you actually eat enough to support it.

Look, it amazes me that people are still this confused on this issue. Your goal in the gym is to work ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN GENETICS AND RESULTS, not anyone else’s. I doubt even two other people on this forum have the genetics to match kingbeef as far as being able to gain muscle while staying that lean (further, he may eventually find that to get much bigger than he is will require him to allow more fat gain as well because reaching 200-210 is NOTHING like reaching upwards of 225-230). You would have to be a freaking idiot to keep eating focusing only on how lean you are instead of focusing on whether eating that way is actually allowing you to make gains well above average.

That means, once again, that the goal is not to win some contest as far as who ate the cleanest. the goal is to work in whatever way your genetics dictate that allows you to make the most muscle gains while keeping body fat under some sort of control.

That means yes, the average newbie who jumps into this assuming everyone needs to try to stay under “10% body fat” as they gain is FLAT OUT FUCKING WRONG. Some can get away with that. It doesn’t mean YOU can.

Further, if you are still skinny or are so tall that you “200lbs” still leaves you looking malnourished…please stop responding to posts like this thread as if you already got big based on body weight alone.[/quote]

Thank you. I have noticed a lot of guys throw around “I am 200”, “I am 220”, “I am 240” etc.; like just WEIGHING that much means something. Depending upon your frame and proportions, you can look VERY different than a guy who weighs the same. I’m not even 5’8" and the lowest I would EVER go in bodyweight if I seriously cut was 220 and I actually prefer to stay in the 255 to 265 range (and have actually been up to 280), because, FOR ME, that is the size and stage at which I look most powerful and massive and am still able to do what I want to do athletically and physically.[/quote]

The thing is, even if these guys had the genetics, most will never get to that level where they can carry 250+lbs and look relatively lean while doing it because they literally FEAR any extra fat gain more than they have the MOTIVATION to gain that level of muscle mass.

You already know how heavy I’ve been before and I seriously doubt I want to be much under 250 again unless I am doing a show or something. That wouldn’t have happened eating like these guys do…yet they keep arguing…even though I haven’t seen any carrying that level of size yet.

I mean, just to ask…are ANY of the “must eat clean” guys carrying the size that Lewhitehurst is? Anywhere close?

Anyone matching Waylander by completely ignoring his advice?

I mean, every “must eat clean” guy in this thread with arms OVER 18" where you can actually see the biceps, please make yourselves known.

I just want to know what level you all are actually getting to.[/quote]

We have had this argument before, but I keep my abs year round. I PERSONALLY find it to be what works best for me. I don’t like having to diet down a ton and lose more size than I need to, (inevitably you lose some). Is it more difficult, time consuming, and annoying to do it? Yes, absolutely but when I am eating better or “more clean” I feel better, make better gains, and have much less to lose when I diet down for a contest. Would I recommend it for everyone? Obviously not, each person is different…I know guys who can eat fast food for half of their meals and put on lean tissue and guys who have to keep carbs almost non existent to lose fat.

Everyone has to deal with their own genetics…no one is advocating eating pizza for every meal but i do think its important to limit things with empty calories and limit fast food as much as possible.

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[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looks at Celtics Avi again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh geez, I needed a good laugh. Please find something heavy bro, and pick it up. Your physique is no where even in the same vicinity as someone who has the right to talk down to anyone!

[/quote]

Ok I have said it before but I cannot update my avatar. I actually document my progress with pictures, measurements, weigh ins and video to look for weaknesses.

Like I said before, just shut the fuck up and train. Pic is me now vs me in late 2009 and in january 2010. Looking to gain 50 lbs still

129

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looks at Celtics Avi again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh geez, I needed a good laugh. Please find something heavy bro, and pick it up. Your physique is no where even in the same vicinity as someone who has the right to talk down to anyone!
[/quote]

Lol…Celtics avatar is old; he has made considerable progress since then according to his thread in Performance Photos.

You on the other hand, make ridiculous threads and are only 190 pounds after three years lifting?!
ha!

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[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looks at Celtics Avi again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh geez, I needed a good laugh. Please find something heavy bro, and pick it up. Your physique is no where even in the same vicinity as someone who has the right to talk down to anyone!

[/quote]

Ok I have said it before but I cannot update my avatar. I actually document my progress with pictures, measurements, weigh ins and video to look for weaknesses.

Like I said before, just shut the fuck up and train. Pic is me now vs me in 2009 and in january 2010. Looking to gain 50 lbs still
[/quote]

Great progress man, obviously it’s only your back but you definitely added a ton of size and may have even got a bit leaner too, congrats

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[quote]jb99 wrote:

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looks at Celtics Avi again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh geez, I needed a good laugh. Please find something heavy bro, and pick it up. Your physique is no where even in the same vicinity as someone who has the right to talk down to anyone!

[/quote]

Ok I have said it before but I cannot update my avatar. I actually document my progress with pictures, measurements, weigh ins and video to look for weaknesses.

Like I said before, just shut the fuck up and train. Pic is me now vs me in 2009 and in january 2010. Looking to gain 50 lbs still
[/quote]

Great progress man, obviously it’s only your back but you definitely added a ton of size and may have even got a bit leaner too, congrats[/quote]

Thanks man.

132

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:
[

Great progress man, obviously it’s only your back but you definitely added a ton of size and may have even got a bit leaner too, congrats[/quote]

Thanks man.
[/quote]

yeah man you’re definitely looking bigger and leaner. Keep it up!

.greg.

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[quote]Ritter wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looks at Celtics Avi again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh geez, I needed a good laugh. Please find something heavy bro, and pick it up. Your physique is no where even in the same vicinity as someone who has the right to talk down to anyone!
[/quote]

Lol…Celtics avatar is old; he has made considerable progress since then according to his thread in Performance Photos.

You on the other hand, make ridiculous threads and are only 190 pounds after three years lifting?!
ha!

[/quote]

Asking if anyone is able to make progress while remaining lean is a ridiculous thread?? I guess only discussing bulks in the traditional sense is all thats allowed!

I’m actually a lean 180 lbs now. Thanks for the interest, I’m a boxer with an interest in BBing. I’ve gone from 122lbs to 180 lbs lean. Maybe not a great BB but, I’ve seen very few boxers make the progress I have while still winning bouts. Could I gain more, sure if I wanna fight as a fkn heavy weight, but til then I think I’m happy where I’m at douche.

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[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:

[quote]celtics2022 wrote:

Dear God just shut the fuck up and train! You’re fucking pathetic!!![/quote]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Looks at Celtics Avi again

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh geez, I needed a good laugh. Please find something heavy bro, and pick it up. Your physique is no where even in the same vicinity as someone who has the right to talk down to anyone!

[/quote]

Ok I have said it before but I cannot update my avatar. I actually document my progress with pictures, measurements, weigh ins and video to look for weaknesses.

Like I said before, just shut the fuck up and train. Pic is me now vs me in late 2009 and in january 2010. Looking to gain 50 lbs still
[/quote]
Congrats you made gains in a short amount of time, nice work, but once again you are no where near the size I’d expect from someone with as big a mouth as you’ve got!

Unfortunately I don’t have any recent pics, because BB is not my passion, boxing is. I do have pics in my profile of when I first began to train, most recent picture is from 2007. My goal from the get go was to be boxing at 180 and here I am boxing at 180. I box and lift which is not quite as easy to gain mass, so don’t come here and try and lecture me regarding my training when I probably spend equal if not more time training then you. The post was not in regards to myself, but a BBing question in general. So take your self righteous attitude and fuck off. A question regarding gaining mass in general is not a reflection of how I train jackass.

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Hey it’s ok, I’m 180lbs too…but a 32 year old 5’5’ ex distance runner…:wink:

Anyway. I think people just lack a proper context as to what in the flaming hell anyone else is talking about. Bulk, Clean Bulk, Lean Bulk, Dirty Bulk…to each his own.

Clean Bulk: Eating ‘clean’ foods. As long as calories are in a surplus this is probably the best way to gain size while not getting really really fat. Takes more mental effort though.

Dirty Bulk: Eating McDonalds everyday! Yummy. Easiest way to “put on size”. But you’re going to gain a lot of water and fat with this way as well. This is how most people first put on a lot of size because it’s easiest. But they meet a cruel reality when they start to cut…mahahahah!

Lean Bulk: No such thing. This is trying to gain muscle mass while staying very lean. This is possible only if you’re a newb, on AAS/prohormones, or a teenager. Mental mindfucking for a couple pounds here and there.

Alan

136

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Clean Bulk: Eating ‘clean’ foods. As long as calories are in a surplus this is probably the best way to gain size while not getting really really fat. Takes more mental effort though.

[/quote]
Oof… more intestinal elasticity, too. Getting 4500 Cal from fast food, twinkies, and sody-pop is effortless. You have to cram for it when eating totally clean.

I think most of us strike a balance somewhere in the middle, eventually.

137

[quote]Professor X wrote:

We are only making an issue about height because some of these newbs see “200lbs” and think they have accomplished the same as the rest of us even though they are like 6’6". Me at 200lbs is NOTHING like some guy who is that tall at 200lbs.
Someone 6’5" or taller won’t even look filled out until they get over 250. I mean, shit, we’ve done the whole thread in the past where we listed tall guys in football and basketball at certain weights. NONE of them looked really muscular until they got well over 250lbs.[/quote]

Anyone remember what this thread was called? Cant seem to find it searching.

Also being one of the guys who has gone from ‘Auschwitz’ to normal and wants to see my progress continue, it just takes a while to realise what this extra food in your diet really equates to.

And X, in relation to guys posting when they it 200lbs (that’s something i did), its just excitement at hitting a little milestone and in my opinion certainly not a “I’m awesome, let me lecture you on what i did moment.”

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[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Clean Bulk: Eating ‘clean’ foods. As long as calories are in a surplus this is probably the best way to gain size while not getting really really fat. Takes more mental effort though.

[/quote]
Oof… more intestinal elasticity, too. Getting 4500 Cal from fast food, twinkies, and sody-pop is effortless. You have to cram for it when eating totally clean.

I think most of us strike a balance somewhere in the middle, eventually.[/quote]

Agreed… Getting in a ton of cals from rice and chicken breasts etc means that I have to eat some 8 or more times per day because I can’t consume nearly the same amount of cals/protein in one sitting as compared to the way I normally eat… And it’s not nice on digestion either in my case, even with extra fiber…
Plus even if I could stomach it, there’s still the issue of taste etc… A lot of clean food is just so bland… Seasoning only takes me so far and while I’m not worried about consuming too much salt or anything, using it on everything I eat is a little weird.
So yeah, striking a balance helps.

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I know its not impressive but iv been bulking for the past 5 and 1/2 months, gone up from 150lbs to 180lbs… decided to get stronger and bigger, was doing jiu jitsu as a sport for nationals then gotta a torn spinal disc, had to give time off from training and decided that gym was what i initially loved and it was time for my body to show testament to that, but yeah just been eating alot, i dont even know the caloric intake… its weird to think like once you start forcing yourself to gain weight and eat, you actually enjoy it, i mean the weights go up in the gym, you feel better and just changes your opinion on things in life and gym. :slight_smile: