I gained roughly 40lbs of mostly muscle my first year (plus maybe a couple months). Recomped down to 12-ish %bf, experimented a bit, then went back to what worked and I’m gaining again.
Clean bulk? Not a chance. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not eating Dorito’s and candy bars while swigging sodas, but I MUST HAVE CARBS to gain, and a lot of 'em. My protein intake even takes a backseat to carbs.
[quote]Undertow wrote:
Ummm which ones Jacob… Nobody in that movie (previews I havn’t seen it) looked like they picked up a weight.[/quote]
The guy is by no means big, but I was reading an article about him in a magazine and basically in the first movie he was 140lbs, and a year later when they filmed the second one he was 170 lbs and had stood quite lean the entire time.
I’m going to have to agree with Prof X and say this is probably just newbie gains, I was just curious to see if there were any t-nationers who managed to stay lean while gaining past their newbie growth spurt?
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I think that if you consistently eat a ton of clean calories, you will put on lean muscle mass and minimal fat over time. That probably sounds obvious and simplifies a somewhat complicated process, but I truly believe that thats what it comes down to. If you consistently, day in and day out, put down tons of good carbs, lean proteins, healthy fats, and fibrous vegetables and fruits, you will get the results you want. [/quote]
I will disagree slightly just because I know people who eat extremely healthy but are still a bit heavy. I think people tend to over eat carbs, even if they are good (non processed) whole wheat carbs, if you eat too much you’re going to put on weight and if you’re eating more calories than you burn by several hunded a day, I think staying lean can be an issue depending on your metabolism and genetics. But thats probably true for people with good genetics, but those naturally heavy people may have issues.
If looking like Jacob from New Moon is your goal then I think a moderate “clean” approach is fine. But if you are a 150 pounds and have never been big in your life and your trying to climb in the 200’s (avergae height) then an extreme approach should be taken. I dont think anyone that is that skinny can take a clean approach because their metabolism is so fast and their body just does not want the extra weight.
plus your numbers in the gym are not gonna go up as fast on a “clean” bulk. its not an excuse to eat pizza six days a week but whole milk, burgers, steaks, cottage cheese, eggs, peanut butter, and occasional pizzas once or twice a week should be. i think alot of the vets on here get crap for telling guys to eat more as if theyre telling these guys to go fucking eat french fries and sip on some soda. if your goal is gaining a large amount of muscle mass then their should be a large caloric surplus from moderately clean food.
but when your 150 worrying about eating bread and drinking whole milk. their is a problem. im with the old school on this one. taking this approach has allowed me to gain 30 pounds in the past 5-6 months which is something i dont think i would have been able to say if i took the “clean bulking” route.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
If you show me anyone over 200lbs who is making gains on a CLEAN BULK i’ll deposit 300 dollars on your account[/quote]
You might as well deposit that 300 into my accout then. IT IS POSSIBLE. I swear (im not bashing you) but it just seems that a lot of guys on here HEAR one thing and swear by it. Stop putting limitations on yourself, just go out there and do it.
Besides for the most part PROTEIN is most crucial (natural trainee should be taking in 1.5g per lb. bodyweight) if you eat 3 good meals and 2 shitty meals I doubt anything is gonna happen, as long as your in a certain calorie range. It’s possible to gain weight on a clean bulk without a doubt…you might even feel better from it. To eat 3000-3200 calories clean a day is not as hard as most think. If you are really having trouble upping that…you can easily eat something shitty to give you 800 calories for a meal after a tough workout. Ta-da - you are in 4000 calorie range.
[quote]ALX wrote:
I hate all thread mentioning Jabob, Brad pitt, the guy in spiderman, etc.
Those thread always tend to lead to the conclusion that girl prefer guy with a 6 packs and 14 inch ripped arms, no need to be bigger or lift heavy etc.
[/quote]
??
I doubt anyone here wants to look like Jacob or find his physique to be ideal, he’s a 16 year old 170 lb kid, even if High School girls think he has the perfect body you are the only person here who has mentioned “what girls prefer”. So your point is a bit irrelevant. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the method by which he added 30 lbs of lean mass to his frame in a year, nothing more.
[quote]celtics2022 wrote:
OP didnt say what he does or does not do in regards to alcohol so this could be a big factor for him.
[/quote]
The OP didn’t mention anything in regards to him not gaining. I am putting on weight just fine and have hit most of my goals. Just because I am posting in regards to gains others have made does not mean I am trouble making gains myself. I do think I would have a hard time making gains while keeping single digit body fat which is why I started this thread, but I have been training long enough to know what works for my body.
Not only he had newbie gains, but remember this guy is an actor. He probably hired a personal chef, and his trainer had his nutrition spot on, and he can afford all the supps he wants. His career also depends on his appearance so you know he busted his ass too.
Your goal is NOT to worry about “clean bulks”. Your GOAL is to get big muscles and most of you haven’t even done this yet but are claiming how well you supposedly grow.
I have gained well over 100lbs (as much as 150 at one point) since I was a beginner…and no, I am not obese.
If you are more worried about “clean bulks” than whether you are gaining muscle optimally, you will not get very far in this.
No one has the goal of being fat as hell. However, your body was also not designed to gain 100lbs of lean body mass with absolutely no fat gain. Most of the guys even bragging about how “clean” they eat are some of the least developed here.
If your goal is for people to say, “Holy shit” when they see you, you had better get acquainted with a shit load of calories and a shit load of weight in the gym. You have to FORCE a gain like that.
That is WHY, unless they have outstanding genetics, most people with that approach never stand out much.
Your goal is to get the calories in…and if your personal goal is to be as tiny as the guys in that movie, then of course you don’t have to push the limits much…because they ain’t shit.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
If you show me anyone over 200lbs who is making gains on a CLEAN BULK i’ll deposit 300 dollars on your account[/quote]
You might as well deposit that 300 into my accout then. IT IS POSSIBLE. I swear (im not bashing you) but it just seems that a lot of guys on here HEAR one thing and swear by it. Stop putting limitations on yourself, just go out there and do it.
Besides for the most part PROTEIN is most crucial (natural trainee should be taking in 1.5g per lb. bodyweight) if you eat 3 good meals and 2 shitty meals I doubt anything is gonna happen, as long as your in a certain calorie range. It’s possible to gain weight on a clean bulk without a doubt…you might even feel better from it. To eat 3000-3200 calories clean a day is not as hard as most think. If you are really having trouble upping that…you can easily eat something shitty to give you 800 calories for a meal after a tough workout. Ta-da - you are in 4000 calorie range.
x 2
I agree with this pretty much 100 percent. I totally believe that you can make good gains on a clean diet. Eating the right foods to both fuel your body and build muscle don’t have to be dirty in order for you to gain mass. You just need to eat a ton of clean food. Tons of steak, chicken, and ground beef will get you results, it just is tough for some to eat enough.
[/quote]
[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Jacob from new moon is Hyuuuge!!!
Okay not really, but I did think it was fairly impressive that he put on 30lbs of lean mass in a year. Now a lot of it probably has to do with his age and naturally putting on weight, but I’m curious how much lean muscle mass serious lifters on this site have been able to put on without doing a serious bulk and putting on a lot of fat?
I’ve always bulked to gain weight and never tried gaining a significant amount of muscles while trying not to gain fat, so I’d be interested in hearing what fellow T-Nationers have accomlished with minimal fat gain as their goal.
Anyone here doing clean bulks, if so care to post your results?
[/quote]
What’s alot of fat? That’s very subjective. Do you mean keep a 6 pack like the kid on new moon? He started as a twig and still isn’t close to big. Like a previous poster said, I want to see someone over 200 lbs and gained alot of muscle while keeping a 6 pack.
I went from 190 to about 240 in year by eating “clean” foods over 90% of the time (pics of various weights in my profile). But I still gained a noticeable amount of fat with it. So even though I don’t qualify as a person who stayed lean while bulking, I’d do it the same way given a chance.
You ever see dirty gerdy? He doesn’t post here anymore but he was more developed than most on this site and stays pretty shredded.
I don’t want to make it seem like that’s normal (it’s definitely not) but there are a select few with the genetics to do that. Lucky bastards.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Your goal is NOT to worry about “clean bulks”. Your GOAL is to get big muscles and most of you haven’t even done this yet but are claiming how well you supposedly grow.
I have gained well over 100lbs (as much as 150 at one point) since I was a beginner…and no, I am not obese.
If you are more worried about “clean bulks” than whether you are gaining muscle optimally, you will not get very far in this.
No one has the goal of being fat as hell. However, your body was also not designed to gain 100lbs of lean body mass with absolutely no fat gain. Most of the guys even bragging about how “clean” they eat are some of the least developed here.
If your goal is for people to say, “Holy shit” when they see you, you had better get acquainted with a shit load of calories and a shit load of weight in the gym. You have to FORCE a gain like that.
That is WHY, unless they have outstanding genetics, most people with that approach never stand out much.
Your goal is to get the calories in…and if your personal goal is to be as tiny as the guys in that movie, then of course you don’t have to push the limits much…because they ain’t shit.[/quote]
I personally don’t understand why temporarily gaining body fat is such as big deal to most? I mean are you guys doing photo shoots daily, or do some just eat clean for the fuck of it, to say well I eat clean? Eating clean doesn’t mean shit unless your numbers, or your physique are noteworthy? Gaining body fat up to an appreciable level. Yes even 20% should not be a big deal to most since ideally if you have a decent amount of muscle mass your not gonna be walking around year round with less then 10% body fat, well I wouldn’t personally since I don’t compete in bodybuilding. Shedding off 10% of your body fat can take a year with the right diet approach. Gaining a good amount of muscle mass on the other hand is and always was a long term approach, even if your enhanced your not gonna gain a 100 pounds in a fucking year or two for that matter. Eat big, lift big. its what every other big guy had to do, I don’t understand the confusion.
[quote] wrote:
[/quote]
It seems like people in this section get all riled up when you mention anything that hints at gaining while being lean. I stated that I personally do not grow like this, nor do I think that I could. I was only curious for those on this site that DO choose to stay fairly lean and lift, how much they are able to gain. I think it’s interesting to see how much your body is willing to let you grow without an over abundance of calories. My first bulk I was almost at 6000 calories. Granted I was trying to bulk while boxing so I had to go a bit above and beyond to gain weight because I was training so hard, but I am in no way saying that staying lean is optimal. But I do understand that some people choose to do that, so I’d like to know what kind of gains they are making.
I think everyone here knows that a serious bulk is the BEST way to build muscle. But thats not to say we should crucify those that don’t choose to do it that way. This is a bodybuilding forum, I’m sure there are guys trying to build a great physique while staying lean. I would just like to hear from them and know what kind of progress they can make. Don’t get pissed just because not everyone is eating optimally.
So for the guys staying below 10% body fat how much have you ever gained?? Or even those that do bulk, how much have you gained if any during the summer or during your lean times. Do you still gain, if so how much is average??
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
If you show me anyone over 200lbs who is making gains on a CLEAN BULK i’ll deposit 300 dollars on your account[/quote]
I’m making gains on a clean bulk and I’m over 200 lbs. Can I have the $300?
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
You ever see dirty gerdy? He doesn’t post here anymore but he was more developed than most on this site and stays pretty shredded.
I don’t want to make it seem like that’s normal (it’s definitely not) but there are a select few with the genetics to do that. Lucky bastards.[/quote]
I remember the name and avatar but I think he stopped posting shortly after I joined. I wasn’t aware of the path he took get that physique. I agree that this is rare though.
[quote]Liv92 wrote:
Not only he had newbie gains, but remember this guy is an actor. He probably hired a personal chef, and his trainer had his nutrition spot on, and he can afford all the supps he wants. His career also depends on his appearance so you know he busted his ass too. [/quote]
True, I think he has good genetics as well. Granted he was only 140 lbs before but he was 15, from what I read he only up’d his calorie intake to 2700 on training days. If I eat 2700 calories I lose weight, even when I was 130 lbs that wouldn’t have been enough for me to gain.
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
If you show me anyone over 200lbs who is making gains on a CLEAN BULK i’ll deposit 300 dollars on your account[/quote]
I’m making gains on a clean bulk and I’m over 200 lbs. Can I have the $300?[/quote]
Oh, STFU, ya freek!
[quote]celtics2022 wrote:
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
[quote]celtics2022 wrote:
I think that if you don’t drink any alcohol and are in bed by 11pm you should be totally fine as regards to fat gain.
Once you start partying a lot, drinking tons of alcohol and staying up to 1 or 2 in the morning then you will start having problems.[/quote]
Huh?
This post is the best definition of the term “out of left field” I have seen in a LONG time. [/quote]
What? If you drink a lot you get too many carbs, will probably go get some more food to eat later (fast food) and stay up later and get hungover making you less likely to go to the gym and/or work hard which will hurt your gains
Its not that hard of a concept to grasp and not out of left field as you put it in a thread about gaining cleanly
[/quote]
Celtics, do you happen to have a poster of Jacob hanging over your bed?
Hows that for out of left field?
I’ve been training for more then a year now, and I managed to go from 140 to about 210 now, while maintaining my abs the whole time. Now, I did get some many “love handles” and my abs weren’t as defined and deep as they were when i was skinny cross country runner, but i definatly kept a full 6-pack through out. Am I big? noway. I’m 6’3", so 210 doesnt look massove on my lanky frame. but by getting about 1.5 grams per lbs of protein, and keeping carbs in early in the day and around workouts, i think I did as clean a bulk I could have done, even though it wasn’t my intention