[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]maym wrote:
I don’t like boxing. Why limit your tools?[/quote]
It’s not limiting your tools, it’s a completely different game.
By that logic MMA fighters are limiting their tools because they are not groin punching each other or biting.[/quote]
Haha, good point and very true.
Nothing wrong with appreciating the skills of boxing.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
kind of a silly list- but that is who I like
I think BJ Fedor and Sakuraba could be the GOAT
but lots of bad choices haunt them all
[/quote]
Sakuraba was mowed by japanese executives putting him very over his weight classes against Vovchanchyn, Rampage, Crocop, Wanderlei, Arona just to show the japanese spirit and create a national hero on J-MMA. He would have a long reign if he just stayed as a MW, but then again maybe he wouldn’t be that Saku that we all know and love.
BJ kept challenging himself out of his weight class, if he never fought against 170’ers and Lyoto he would have a much better record, his record is deceiving for a TUF n00b who only goes by records.
Fedor… i can’t say anything bad about him, besides maybe being too much humble and religious and having M-1 raping his career and probably will continue to milk him out until nothing is left =(
Boxing I haven’t followed much.
MMA
JDS just does it for me somehow. He is a lightning quick, accurate and powerful boxer, but doesn’t get swamped in a mixed game. Really, he is bigger than me and seems to be a cheerful, confident person so that is maybe it there.
Matyushenko is only slightly bigger than me and in my near age group, is strong and still competitive. Great record, although I wonder if some of his fights are against easy to knock off cans.
[quote]in female MMA nobody beats Rin Nakai and Gina Carano in terms of beauty.
i bet Chris Cyborg could run-through the UFC LW division, she would be the biggest challenger to Frankie Edgar or Jose Aldo.
[/quote]
Meisha Tate is definitely a cutey. I actually wondered something like, what if she went up against Urijah Faber or another bantamweight male. I suppose females are supposed to have more body fat, and she might be outgunned by pectoral strength.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Oh yes, I didn’t do most hated - well, it’s undoubtedly pretty much anyone trained by Freddie Roach.
I can’t believe all the hate for SRL. Dude was AWESOME, and the only one that beat each of the other Four Kings back then.
Although I do kinda hate him for the Duran thing. Duran’s my boy.[/quote]
I suppose he beat everyone controversially. So everyone got to see their personal favorite beat in a questionable manner. Add that to the fact that he was pushed by the media as the golden boy of boxing and you get a lot of people who just plum don’t like him.
I am surprised that Muhammed didn’t get more of a look in. Maybe he was just too obvious.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]maym wrote:
I don’t like boxing. Why limit your tools?[/quote]
It’s not limiting your tools, it’s a completely different game.
By that logic MMA fighters are limiting their tools because they are not groin punching each other or biting.[/quote]
check this out
[quote]maym wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]maym wrote:
I don’t like boxing. Why limit your tools?[/quote]
It’s not limiting your tools, it’s a completely different game.
By that logic MMA fighters are limiting their tools because they are not groin punching each other or biting.[/quote]
check this out
[/quote]
hahaha
on a serious note, I am very disappointed and somewhat surprised how few people have Sugar Ray Robinson on their list.
by most true boxing experts, he is considered one of the if not THE greatest fighters in history.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
on a serious note, I am very disappointed and somewhat surprised how few people have Sugar Ray Robinson on their list.
by most true boxing experts, he is considered one of the if not THE greatest fighters in history.
[/quote]
But it’s a list of favourites, not bests. There aren’t a lot of people in this forum who got to see Robinson fight. So the guys appearing here are probably going to have emerged more recently (hence Hagler, Pac, Holyfield, Mayweather and so on).
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
on a serious note, I am very disappointed and somewhat surprised how few people have Sugar Ray Robinson on their list.
by most true boxing experts, he is considered one of the if not THE greatest fighters in history.
[/quote]
But it’s a list of favourites, not bests. There aren’t a lot of people in this forum who got to see Robinson fight. So the guys appearing here are probably going to have emerged more recently (hence Hagler, Pac, Holyfield, Mayweather and so on).[/quote]
Wait a damn minute. He is on my list and I first watched/still watch Robinson on tape/video. I am not that old. Although when my back hair does finally turn grey I am declaring myself a silverback and will be done taking shit.
Otherwise I agee with your post completely. There is a big difference between favorite and best.
Also to my mind Robinson is the greatest boxer that we have sufficient film on to judge. I have read that Jack Johnson was even better than Joe Louis, but have zero way of knowing (just an example).
Regards,
Robert A
Roy Jones Jr.
Mike Tyson
Ali
Mayweather
Ward
Lesner
Silva
Frank Mir
Royse Gracie
Ryan Bader(sp?)
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
on a serious note, I am very disappointed and somewhat surprised how few people have Sugar Ray Robinson on their list.
by most true boxing experts, he is considered one of the if not THE greatest fighters in history.
[/quote]
But it’s a list of favourites, not bests. There aren’t a lot of people in this forum who got to see Robinson fight. So the guys appearing here are probably going to have emerged more recently (hence Hagler, Pac, Holyfield, Mayweather and so on).[/quote]
Wait a damn minute. He is on my list and I first watched/still watch Robinson on tape/video. I am not that old. Although when my back hair does finally turn grey I am declaring myself a silverback and will be done taking shit.
Otherwise I agee with your post completely. There is a big difference between favorite and best.
Also to my mind Robinson is the greatest boxer that we have sufficient film on to judge. I have read that Jack Johnson was even better than Joe Louis, but have zero way of knowing (just an example).
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
My Dad watched a lot of Cassius and Ali, so I got to see a few of his fights on VHS. Ali before he retired was a BAD man.
I’ve watched 10 or so fights and highlights of Robinson’s biggest fights and he was the BEST of all time. Ali, “I’m the greatest heavyweight of all time, Robinson is the greatest boxer of all time!”
But they weren’t my top 5. They’re top 10 with Tyson, Camacho and Duran.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
on a serious note, I am very disappointed and somewhat surprised how few people have Sugar Ray Robinson on their list.
by most true boxing experts, he is considered one of the if not THE greatest fighters in history.
[/quote]
But it’s a list of favourites, not bests. There aren’t a lot of people in this forum who got to see Robinson fight. So the guys appearing here are probably going to have emerged more recently (hence Hagler, Pac, Holyfield, Mayweather and so on).[/quote]
Wait a damn minute. He is on my list and I first watched/still watch Robinson on tape/video. I am not that old. Although when my back hair does finally turn grey I am declaring myself a silverback and will be done taking shit.
Otherwise I agee with your post completely. There is a big difference between favorite and best.
Also to my mind Robinson is the greatest boxer that we have sufficient film on to judge. I have read that Jack Johnson was even better than Joe Louis, but have zero way of knowing (just an example).
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
Now I sure as hell ain’t gonna call nobody old. But if you got the years on ya such that you’s once seen a prime Ray Robinson, you surely ain’t in school no more son.
But seriously now. Were you watching those tapes when Robinson was in his prime or years later? Because if the answer is the former then you might still be a spruce gent, but you are not representing the T-Nation demographic. If it is the later, then you are an exception to the rule.
There’s nothing to stop people from going and checking out some of the old masters. However, it’s going to be hard for them to awaken the same sense of excitement that you got from watching your first Tyson fight. Or your first Pacquiao fight. I remember jumping up and down in front of the telly when Martinez knocked out Paul Williams. That didn’t happen when I watched the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre. Sure it was exciting, but I already knew the result.
None of us are immune to hype. I’ll probably remember Klitshcko - Haye till I kick the bucket, despite the fact that inumerable better fights will have at that stage slipped my mind. I’ll always remember Pacquiao - Mayweather, whether or not it ever comes to fruition. Who here will forget Hopkins dropping to the floor to do push-ups in front of a bewildered Jean Pascal. It’s hard to find a replacement for being there, and while many do (myself included) most do not.
Add that to recent fights having better picture quality and recall in the public imagination (How many people would recognise the name Tyson? How many would recognise the name Jack Johnson?) and you’ve got a formula that says that recent fighters are going to be over- represented.
duffyj2,
First saw Robinson on a VHS tape covering the subject of great boxers. It seemed obvious to me that he wasn’t merely a master of the craft, he was THE master of the craft.
I understand your point, and recognize its validity.
My post was largely in jest. I don’t know if that came across well since I typed it in American English, and you and I are seperated by a common language.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Robert A wrote:
duffyj2,
First saw Robinson on a VHS tape covering the subject of great boxers. It seemed obvious to me that he wasn’t merely a master of the craft, he was THE master of the craft.
I understand your point, and recognize its validity.
My post was largely in jest. I don’t know if that came across well since I typed it in American English, and you and I are seperated by a common language.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
I think you’ll find that YOU are the one with the ‘common’ language sir!
Tries to regain honor lost from being Irish and not noticing humerous post
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
duffyj2,
First saw Robinson on a VHS tape covering the subject of great boxers. It seemed obvious to me that he wasn’t merely a master of the craft, he was THE master of the craft.
I understand your point, and recognize its validity.
My post was largely in jest. I don’t know if that came across well since I typed it in American English, and you and I are seperated by a common language.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
I think you’ll find that YOU are the one with the ‘common’ language sir!
Tries to regain honor lost from being Irish and not noticing humerous post[/quote]
HA!
I stand rebuked.
Ill take a stab…
Boxers…in order
Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Iron Mike Tyson
James Bonecrusher Smith
Arturo Gatti
Kevin Kelly
MMA
Matt Serra
Forrest Griffin
Randy Couture
Chuck Lidell
Tank Abbot
Dominick Cruz
Fjodor
Machida
Genki Sudo
Brock Lesnar …kidding, tie between A Silva, M Rua, M Guillard and Aldo?
Prince-Asshole Naseem Hamed
Sweet Pea
Tyson
RJJ
Rocky Marciano
Boxing:
Sugar Ray Robinson
Mohamed Ali
Mike Tyson
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones Jr
MMA:
GSP
Anderson Silva
Mirko Cro Cop
Dan Handerson
Fedor Emilianko
Is Tito Ortiz cut from the UFC with that bad loss to Evans?