WTF!!!! Need Advice

[quote]egyptianBulk wrote:
Hi Jay,

First of all why I do this at 50% is I aerobically suck and I tried going at 65-70% but I get winded before the end and often end the excercise a bit early, on the other hand I read that doing each rep explosively helps with weight loss and thats what I am trying to do,[/quote]
Are you talking about ending each set, each lift, or the session early?

You know what? It doesn’t even matter. When I read that paragraph, all I heard in my head was “I tried, but it was hard so I stopped trying”. Along the same lines as “I’d really like to run 2 miles, but I get winded when I run, so I just walk instead”. The “doing each rep explosively” thing is just a cop-out.

If you’re not willing to push yourself to your limits, then no amount of advice in the world can help you. When you reach the point where you are willing, you won’t need much in the way of advice because you’ll be seeing results.

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
You forgot to list THE BAG OF DICKS YOU ATE FOR SUPPER! Die in a fire, Cheers.[/quote]
You two have some history, eh?

Links?

[quote]egyptianBulk wrote:
Vey mature mate… your probably a monkey hanger…[/quote]

I sell monkey hangers… No joke and i’m half Egyptian… this kinda freaked me out when i read that post and ue username!

Jay you are totally right in terms of pushing myself to the limit
but after 5 sets of Deep Back Squats+ Military press (superset)
DB Lateral Lunges + Lateral Raises (Superset)
Leg Curls + Face Pulls (Superset)

I usually miss the last set or two on the curls + Face Pulls as I have already puked. As I really try to put some volume in a very short time All the above barely takes over 30 minutes (yesterdays workout)

But in principle you are right.

Marzouk, nice to meet a fellow Egyptian here.
Actually and Funnily a monkey hanger is an offensive term used in the UK to describe people from Hartlepool in specific, and it specifies an incredible level of Ignorance and stupidity, so I’d rethink your product name there :slight_smile:

So I see ur from cairo, I am from Alexandria. Where do you train mate? Buy Supplements? Maybe we could have a T-Nation workout one day :slight_smile:

Cheers mate.

[quote]egyptianBulk wrote:
5 sets of Deep Back Squats+ Military press (superset)
DB Lateral Lunges + Lateral Raises (Superset)
Leg Curls + Face Pulls (Superset)
[/quote]
Why in the holy hell would you do this???

Separate the back squats and military press, at the very least. Those are two intense lifts, and shouldn’t be supersetted with anything. If it were me, I might only do the last two movements as a superset, but if you are pressed for time…

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]egyptianBulk wrote:
5 sets of Deep Back Squats+ Military press (superset)
DB Lateral Lunges + Lateral Raises (Superset)
Leg Curls + Face Pulls (Superset)
[/quote]
Why in the holy hell would you do this???

Separate the back squats and military press, at the very least. Those are two intense lifts, and shouldn’t be supersetted with anything. If it were me, I might only do the last two movements as a superset, but if you are pressed for time…[/quote]
Jay well that what I wanna do put shitloads of volume early on so as to finish all the important lifts before I get winded.

Today I have Olympic lifts then will superset arms with abs

Cheers
Ossama

Aaaah… the old ask for advice and then ignore it bit, eh?

Congrats, you are the first poster to ever be added to my ignore list. Have a nice life.

Well Jay yours is just advice that I have to go think about before implementing because frankly not every poster here over 1000 posts is Dave Tate, so thanks for the advice, and since your gonna ignore me, right back at you bro cuz I only treated you with the utmost respect…

Is anyone else sitting here thinking about posting but are just at a complete loss for words, like I am?

Well Quick Ben if you have something constructive to say go on if you don’t just wander off to the next discussion.

This is dumb. You are not Dave Tate. Don’t train like him. Dave Tate trains the way he does because he wants to actually LOSE some muscle mass to be below 250. He knows that even at 5%-8% bodyfat he is still above 250. You on the other hand are carrying so much fat that it is actually more than one quarter of your bodyweight. You don’t know how much lean mass you have. Why don’t you train for hypertrophy and strength (not that weird stuff you posted earlier) and eat for fat loss? Then, when you’re 5% bodyfat, you can see what your weight is and compare yourself to Dave Tate.

[quote]egyptianBulk wrote:
Well Jay yours is just advice that I have to go think about before implementing because frankly not every poster here over 1000 posts is Dave Tate, so thanks for the advice, and since your gonna ignore me, right back at you bro cuz I only treated you with the utmost respect…[/quote]

Jay is the only guy who bothered to read your posts and reply to you decently. You should try and lose some arrogance and gain some humility if you want long term results. Not cool.

[quote]egyptianBulk wrote:
I don’t wanna end up … weighing 130Kg’s at 10% BF

[/quote]

Yeh watch out man, stuff like that will just creep up on you and before you know…BAM! 10% bf at 130 kg’s! sucks…

@monatu finish the rest of that sentence cuz I have Joint problems I need both weight and fat loss

@XanderBuilt, couldn’t agree more, I didn’t mean to be arrogant with Jay, I guess it was lost in translation because all I have for everybody here is respect as long as its mutual

@Guilty Woosah mate, thats exactly what I want to do. I wanna lose WEIGHT because of my fucked up ankles, I’d rather lose it as fat, but if some muscle sheds off so be it, I can regain it after I am done losing the Weight which is the Priority!!! And BTW if you read my earlier post I don’t compare myself with Tate, but he achieved the goal I want to achieve now, and I don’t see a reason of why I shouldn’t imitate what hee did on the way down the scales, I’d love to hear your objection to my point Guilty77.

Egyptian bulk, the difference between you and Dave Tate is that he was already super lean and just wanted a specific bodyweight. His bodyfat was never as high as yours and when he got lean (and actually gained muscle) his injuries from being massive were alleviated. You have never been lean and are certainly not carrying as much lean body mass as Tate.

You don’t know how much you would weigh without all that fat nor do you know how you ailments would be fixed. Dave Tate got ridiculously lean while gaining muscle before he decided to lose muscle to hit a certain bodyweight. If you wanted to follow in Tate’s footsteps, you should try to loose fat and fat only and then reassess your goals once you’re lean enough. Until you do that you are not imitationg what Dave Tate did, nor should you being saying you are.

Egyptian bulk:

You need to understand that more lean mass = faster metabolism

The bigger you get muscle-wise, the faster the fat loss will become, and/or you can eat more while getting leaner. So your recomp (gaining muscle and losing some fat) was a good thing and is THE main goal of most bodybuilders.

Not only that, but if you get to the stage where you are losing fat AND muscle (e.g. you’re eating too little like around 1500cals per day and exercising too much), then you may get fat loss “results” to start with, but your body will go into starvation mode sooner than you think and will hold onto everything it’s got - you’ll hit a brick wall. Doing this like once a week (too little calories/too much exercise) is fine, but do it every day and you’ll pay.

Secondly, try not to confuse muscle gaining with fat loss. When you weight lift, you do it to purely to gain or maintain muscle mass. Save the fat burning for cardio sessions. When you do supersets with short time intervals, you cannot lift as much. Sure, do it to be more time efficient (supersets are quicker workouts), or to get a slight fat loss effect from lifting - but don’t do it at the sacrifice of energy/effort/strength.

Your main focus is expending energy via cardio and diet. If you haven’t tried HIIT, try it, many find it more effective than slow paced high volume cardio. There are many forms of HIIT, it doesn’t have to be sprinting - could be rowing, elliptical trainer, jump rope etc. After each lifting session, do about 20 mins of slow paced cardio (this “burns up” the freed fatty acids in your bloodstream from lifting).

Get your nutrition timing/partitioning good. Generally, low carbs on off days/cardio days, and higher carbs (e.g. 1.5g/lbs lean bodyweight) on lifting days. Higher calories in first half of day, lower in last half. Higher carbs around lifting and 3 hours after, lower before and later etc. Doing this will help you to maintain a decent speed of metabolism without it “crashing”.

After 3 months of dieting (say 2000-2500 cals per day), take a months break (maintenance calorie intake) which will “re-rev” your metabolism and stop your body from “eating itself” too much…then crank on again.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Egyptian bulk:

You need to understand that more lean mass = faster metabolism

The bigger you get muscle-wise, the faster the fat loss will become, and/or you can eat more while getting leaner. So your recomp (gaining muscle and losing some fat) was a good thing and is THE main goal of most bodybuilders.

Not only that, but if you get to the stage where you are losing fat AND muscle (e.g. you’re eating too little like around 1500cals per day and exercising too much), then you may get fat loss “results” to start with, but your body will go into starvation mode sooner than you think and will hold onto everything it’s got - you’ll hit a brick wall. Doing this like once a week (too little calories/too much exercise) is fine, but do it every day and you’ll pay.

Secondly, try not to confuse muscle gaining with fat loss. When you weight lift, you do it to purely to gain or maintain muscle mass. Save the fat burning for cardio sessions. When you do supersets with short time intervals, you cannot lift as much. Sure, do it to be more time efficient (supersets are quicker workouts), or to get a slight fat loss effect from lifting - but don’t do it at the sacrifice of energy/effort/strength.

Your main focus is expending energy via cardio and diet. If you haven’t tried HIIT, try it, many find it more effective than slow paced high volume cardio. There are many forms of HIIT, it doesn’t have to be sprinting - could be rowing, elliptical trainer, jump rope etc. After each lifting session, do about 20 mins of slow paced cardio (this “burns up” the freed fatty acids in your bloodstream from lifting).

Get your nutrition timing/partitioning good. Generally, low carbs on off days/cardio days, and higher carbs (e.g. 1.5g/lbs lean bodyweight) on lifting days. Higher calories in first half of day, lower in last half. Higher carbs around lifting and 3 hours after, lower before and later etc. Doing this will help you to maintain a decent speed of metabolism without it “crashing”.

After 3 months of dieting (say 2000-2500 cals per day), take a months break (maintenance calorie intake) which will “re-rev” your metabolism and stop your body from “eating itself” too much…then crank on again.[/quote]

This is very informative, I have additional queries to you if you may help me
I googled HIIT and found dozens of programs if you may be so kind to direct me to one you know to be body taxing as well as how many days a week should I do HIIT and how many should I lift(I just love lifting its a psychological need)
In terms of increasing my calories to 2000-2500 should that be in protein/fat cals or carb cals
thanks again mate.

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Egyptian bulk, the difference between you and Dave Tate is that he was already super lean and just wanted a specific bodyweight. His bodyfat was never as high as yours and when he got lean (and actually gained muscle) his injuries from being massive were alleviated. You have never been lean and are certainly not carrying as much lean body mass as Tate.

You don’t know how much you would weigh without all that fat nor do you know how you ailments would be fixed. Dave Tate got ridiculously lean while gaining muscle before he decided to lose muscle to hit a certain bodyweight. If you wanted to follow in Tate’s footsteps, you should try to loose fat and fat only and then reassess your goals once you’re lean enough. Until you do that you are not imitationg what Dave Tate did, nor should you being saying you are.[/quote]

Mate, first of all thanks for the reply, but now I understand where our different point of views come from, I am not imitating tate when he already was down at 12% BF, I am doing the program he did when he was 23% and went down to 12%

Second mate I kind of do know what LBM I have now 102-105kg range because of two things, I used to be an african Junior silver medalist in shot put, I spent arround 8 years of my life training twice a day weightlifting in the morning(all towards explosivity therefore explaining my very low stamina) and throwing in the afternoon, when I retired from the shotput I was at 135kg at 13% BF, but I was always at that level of BF. I gained a hefty amount of fat but I never stopped weight training for power so my muscle mass was conserved but my fat went over the top. And since I was always training for power(explosive power) and never got into bodybuilding as in cutting(didn’t need too) and bulking (I have always had good muscle structure maybe good genetics), so that why I came to u guys for help and why I familirised myself with tate he was originally a big tough guy with alot of fat, who first shed the fat then shed the muscle. hope you are clear to were I come from now. And thanks for your contribution really

[quote]egyptianBulk wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Egyptian bulk:

You need to understand that more lean mass = faster metabolism

The bigger you get muscle-wise, the faster the fat loss will become, and/or you can eat more while getting leaner. So your recomp (gaining muscle and losing some fat) was a good thing and is THE main goal of most bodybuilders.

Not only that, but if you get to the stage where you are losing fat AND muscle (e.g. you’re eating too little like around 1500cals per day and exercising too much), then you may get fat loss “results” to start with, but your body will go into starvation mode sooner than you think and will hold onto everything it’s got - you’ll hit a brick wall. Doing this like once a week (too little calories/too much exercise) is fine, but do it every day and you’ll pay.

Secondly, try not to confuse muscle gaining with fat loss. When you weight lift, you do it to purely to gain or maintain muscle mass. Save the fat burning for cardio sessions. When you do supersets with short time intervals, you cannot lift as much. Sure, do it to be more time efficient (supersets are quicker workouts), or to get a slight fat loss effect from lifting - but don’t do it at the sacrifice of energy/effort/strength.

Your main focus is expending energy via cardio and diet. If you haven’t tried HIIT, try it, many find it more effective than slow paced high volume cardio. There are many forms of HIIT, it doesn’t have to be sprinting - could be rowing, elliptical trainer, jump rope etc. After each lifting session, do about 20 mins of slow paced cardio (this “burns up” the freed fatty acids in your bloodstream from lifting).

Get your nutrition timing/partitioning good. Generally, low carbs on off days/cardio days, and higher carbs (e.g. 1.5g/lbs lean bodyweight) on lifting days. Higher calories in first half of day, lower in last half. Higher carbs around lifting and 3 hours after, lower before and later etc. Doing this will help you to maintain a decent speed of metabolism without it “crashing”.

After 3 months of dieting (say 2000-2500 cals per day), take a months break (maintenance calorie intake) which will “re-rev” your metabolism and stop your body from “eating itself” too much…then crank on again.[/quote]

This is very informative, I have additional queries to you if you may help me
I googled HIIT and found dozens of programs if you may be so kind to direct me to one you know to be body taxing as well as how many days a week should I do HIIT and how many should I lift(I just love lifting its a psychological need)
In terms of increasing my calories to 2000-2500 should that be in protein/fat cals or carb cals
thanks again mate.[/quote]

Your welcome. Much of what I’ve learned is through trial and error and the good contributors to this site.

Basically, you follow a very simple “flowchart”. Forget the special formulas etc, you need to go by your bodies feedback (i.e. is it providing results?).

Don’t do everything at once - always save something for when fat loss stagnates. If you cut out 3000 cals and do cardio 7+ times a week, what are you going to do on week 8 when things slow down? When progress stops, you need to increase the stimulus by expending more energy or diminishing your energy intake. You want to do things that you can do long term(ish), not do something drastic that will just “waste you”.

So here’s the “flowchart”:

Your base exercise volume, which includes lifting and cardio, shouldn’t go lower than 5 hours per week (studies have demonstrated that this is the best minimum amount for decent body composition changes).

  1. Do 5 hours exercise per week
    Losing fat? Yes - keep everything the same. No - step 2
  2. Reduce calories by 250 (e.g. drop from 3000 cals/day to 2750)
    Losing fat? Yes - keep everything the same. No - keep repeating step 2 until losing fat
  3. When step 2 stops working, increasing cardio by 30 mins extra in a week.
  4. Keep alternating between steps 2 and 3 until you hit the lowest calorie intake which for most lifters is around 2000cals/day. If you decrease more than that, you’ll likely slow metabolism/lose muscle.

Better to increase exercise duration/frequency once you’re at the lower calorie level…but this cannot be sustained for long (e.g. like 12 sessions of weight lifting/cardio each week)…which is why a short break of say 4 weeks is needed (boost in calories, reduction of exercise).

It’s not rocket science (doesn’t have to be), but it does take dedication. Commitment/self discipline/faith in the program…all this is more important than having a “super duper one” that you stick to for 3 weeks.

Generally, you’ll want to do HIIT about twice a week to start with and increase it to about 3x/week when progress stalls. Also, duration should be around 10mins per session to start with, increasing to around 20-30 mins as progress stalls.

Steady state/slow cardio can follow the same sort of process as HIIT, but generally can be done more often/more volume with lessor drain than HIIT has.

As for diet, your body type would more likely respond better to moderate-low carb intake. So you wouldn’t be far off of a low carb diet (probably around 100-200g/day). Take in plenty of fish and green veggies. Have one “cheat day” a week to keep you going mentally.