Writing Your Own Program

Training Bodybuilding
81

[quote]David1991 wrote:
bugeishaAD wrote:
David1991 wrote:
Im not sure why you would need an entire day to focus on just one muscle group.

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but this comment said a lot to me because I can relate. I remember when I was just starting I thought splits were stupid and it was such a waste of time to isolate body parts like many traditional bodybuilding templates.

I think as you get stronger, though, you realize why this is important. When I was your size (if the stats in your profile are correct), I definitely agreed, but as you pack on the muscle and strength, it gets tough to squat 400+, bench 300+, and deadlift 500+ all in the same workout week in and week out.

no i understand that, im just talking about always needing one workout. i mean lets say you have your own shoulders day and that takes you 45min.
assuming you take 90sec. rest (a pretty decent amount of time) with each set taking 45 sec. that works out to be 20 sets just for shoulders. i doubt many people need 20 sets for shoulders.

Professor X wrote:

I’m sorry, are you now asking why I don’t recommend training all muscle groups several times a week because assisted lifters can do it?

I do work some muscle groups more often if I am prioritizing them. As has been said many times before, bodybuilding is really not for those who can’t think outside the box at all.

no what im asking is why do you think most people should train muscles 1 time a week? do you think they actually need an entire week to recover before being able to effectively work the muscle again? (basically looking for your reasoning behind it)

[/quote]

Are you purposefully ignoring that muscles get worked indirectly when training other muscle groups? Or possibly that I already mentioned I DO train some muscle groups twice a week?

There are only 7 days in a week. What is it you aren’t getting?

I am not curling 35lbs dumbbells for my biceps. I am curling the ones with dust on them. I am not benching 185lbs, I am going to make the bar bend a little. Therefore, YES, I generally only focus on one body part a day because I lift enough weight that I would not be able to do 2 and 3 body parts at every training session.

82

[quote]Professor X wrote:
David1991 wrote:
bugeishaAD wrote:
David1991 wrote:
Im not sure why you would need an entire day to focus on just one muscle group.

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but this comment said a lot to me because I can relate. I remember when I was just starting I thought splits were stupid and it was such a waste of time to isolate body parts like many traditional bodybuilding templates.

I think as you get stronger, though, you realize why this is important. When I was your size (if the stats in your profile are correct), I definitely agreed, but as you pack on the muscle and strength, it gets tough to squat 400+, bench 300+, and deadlift 500+ all in the same workout week in and week out.

no i understand that, im just talking about always needing one workout. i mean lets say you have your own shoulders day and that takes you 45min.
assuming you take 90sec. rest (a pretty decent amount of time) with each set taking 45 sec. that works out to be 20 sets just for shoulders. i doubt many people need 20 sets for shoulders.

Professor X wrote:

I’m sorry, are you now asking why I don’t recommend training all muscle groups several times a week because assisted lifters can do it?

I do work some muscle groups more often if I am prioritizing them. As has been said many times before, bodybuilding is really not for those who can’t think outside the box at all.

no what im asking is why do you think most people should train muscles 1 time a week? do you think they actually need an entire week to recover before being able to effectively work the muscle again? (basically looking for your reasoning behind it)

Are you purposefully ignoring that muscles get worked indirectly when training other muscle groups? Or possibly that I already mentioned I DO train some muscle groups twice a week?

There are only 7 days in a week. What is it you aren’t getting?

I am not curling 35lbs dumbbells for my biceps. I am curling the ones with dust on them. I am not benching 185lbs, I am going to make the bar bend a little. Therefore, YES, I generally only focus on one body part a day because I lift enough weight that I would not be able to do 2 and 3 body parts at every training session.[/quote]

well i wasnt talking about working a certain amount of muscles per session, i was referring to working each muscle more than once a week. but i guess in your case if you were to work each muscle/group of muscles on a separate day that would take up enough days where you couldnt work it again in the same week.

however i really dont understand why you need an entire day for some muscles, just because your lifting heavier doesnt mean you need 45min. for a muscle, but thats personal preference i guess.

83

lift that kinda weight and you’d likely understand

84

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
lift that kinda weight and you’d likely understand[/quote]

what does the actual poundage have to do with it. first of all if i’m lifting my max or someone stronger lifts there max it’s still gonna feel just as hard for me.
secondly im not talking about how heavy it is, i’m talking about not needed 20+ sets for a muscle

85

[quote]David1991 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
lift that kinda weight and you’d likely understand

what does the actual poundage have to do with it. first of all if i’m lifting my max or someone stronger lifts there max it’s still gonna feel just as hard for me. [/quote]

Bullshit…and the only people who would even say something that ridiculous are people who can’t lift that much.

405lbs does NOT feel like anything you have lifted. It feels like 405 fucking pounds.

Let us know how many body parts you plan on hitting when 405lbs becomes you working weight on a bench (as in not just your max but something you actually TRAIN with regularly).

You haven’t experienced it which is the only reason you actually have the ill thought to think your training feels the same.

The really big strong guy in the corner IS working harder than you, even if you don’t think so.

86

I’ll use my personal split as an example to show you why it takes a fuckin week to get it all done.

Monday - Back (spinal erectors, biceps, and rear delts get hit secondary)
Tuesday - Chest (anterior delts and tricep get hit secondary)
Wednesday - Quad Dominant Legs (glutes, hamstrings, spinal erectors, entire back really, etc)
Thursday - Shoulders/Arms (the day pretty much just directly trains the areas outlined, my upper back is used a bit in some of my shoulder movements though)
Friday - Hip Dominant Legs (spinal erectors, glutes, traps, entire upper back, biceps, really my entire body thanks to deadlifts)

After doing heavy rack pulls on Monday I do NOT want to be trying to do any kind of squatting or deadlifting or anything of the sorts the next day. After training my chest hard i don’t want to be hitting my shoulders or my tris the next day (especially since I am semi delt/tri dominant on bench - something I am working on overcoming for chest development).

Should I be lifting on saturday and sunday too? Probably not, I’ll never grow if I don’t let my body repair itself. I’m sure I missed alot of things that get hit secondary too, those were just the easiest ones that came off the top of my head.

87

[quote]Professor X wrote:
David1991 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
lift that kinda weight and you’d likely understand

what does the actual poundage have to do with it. first of all if i’m lifting my max or someone stronger lifts there max it’s still gonna feel just as hard for me.

Bullshit…and the only people who would even say something that ridiculous are people who can’t lift that much.

405lbs does NOT feel like anything you have lifted. It feels like 405 fucking pounds.

Let us know how many body parts you plan on hitting when 405lbs becomes you working weight on a bench (as in not just your max but something you actually TRAIN with regularly).

You haven’t experienced it which is the only reason you actually have the ill thought to think your training feels the same.

The really big strong guy in the corner IS working harder than you, even if you don’t think so.[/quote]

why would it be harder for their body? its the max i can lift and it’s the max they can lift. do you remember what a certain max felt like when you were weaker? i remember starting with much lighter weights when i started compared to what i lift now…and it was just as hard lifting for a max # of reps then as it is now.

88

[quote]David1991 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
David1991 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
lift that kinda weight and you’d likely understand

what does the actual poundage have to do with it. first of all if i’m lifting my max or someone stronger lifts there max it’s still gonna feel just as hard for me.

Bullshit…and the only people who would even say something that ridiculous are people who can’t lift that much.

405lbs does NOT feel like anything you have lifted. It feels like 405 fucking pounds.

Let us know how many body parts you plan on hitting when 405lbs becomes you working weight on a bench (as in not just your max but something you actually TRAIN with regularly).

You haven’t experienced it which is the only reason you actually have the ill thought to think your training feels the same.

The really big strong guy in the corner IS working harder than you, even if you don’t think so.

why would it be harder for their body? its the max i can lift and it’s the max they can lift. do you remember what a certain max felt like when you were weaker? i remember starting with much lighter weights when i started compared to what i lift now…and it was just as hard lifting for a max # of reps then as it is now.[/quote]

When I first started squatting, I couldn’t lift more than 100 pounds, but it didn’t feel heavy. Now, all my working sets are at least in the 200’s (still really low, but my point is coming), and they feel heavy for me. I can lift it, but it feels a lot heavier.

89

maybe its different but i never noticed anything feeling heavier even as i got stronger. and thats not even my point anyway, why would anyone not on steroids think they need 20 sets for something like shoulders. Plenty of people could work their chest hard and then there shoulders. or there quads and there hamstrings.

90

I don’t have a particular set number of sets I feel I have to do for each body part. Personally I hit it until it feels right, until I feel like I have worked it enough. If I have my workout planned ahead and I finish it all and I still don’t feel like my chest has been hit hard enough, then you best believe I am going to hit it some more.

91

[quote]David1991 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
David1991 wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
lift that kinda weight and you’d likely understand

what does the actual poundage have to do with it. first of all if i’m lifting my max or someone stronger lifts there max it’s still gonna feel just as hard for me.

Bullshit…and the only people who would even say something that ridiculous are people who can’t lift that much.

405lbs does NOT feel like anything you have lifted. It feels like 405 fucking pounds.

Let us know how many body parts you plan on hitting when 405lbs becomes you working weight on a bench (as in not just your max but something you actually TRAIN with regularly).

You haven’t experienced it which is the only reason you actually have the ill thought to think your training feels the same.

The really big strong guy in the corner IS working harder than you, even if you don’t think so.

why would it be harder for their body? its the max i can lift and it’s the max they can lift. do you remember what a certain max felt like when you were weaker? i remember starting with much lighter weights when i started compared to what i lift now…and it was just as hard lifting for a max # of reps then as it is now.[/quote]

Because the stress your body goes through to lift all of your 115lb Squat, it no-where near the stress someone elses body goes through to rep out a 495lb squat.

You get to a certain point in your strength, that no matter how strong you get, the weights you lift will ALWAYS feel heavy… not like 2 plates used to feel heavy now feels light, (which i suspect you havent experienced - and there is nothing wrong in that as is, until you start to assume you know jack) but like 4 plates will always feel heavy. Even to someone who can pull 6.

While i am all for learning, etc. You do realise that your habit of questioning the most knowledgeable people on this board is really rude. It isnt so much of asking a question but questioning what they are TELLING you.

Insolence i believe it is called, and it shows your age.

92

Those are excellent examples brook. Good way to put it in a way that someone who doesn’t know from first hand experience should still be able to understand. On a side note, I personally can’t wait to pull 6 plates, unfortunately I’m only at 4 currently.

93

David1991,

 Just for the sake of comparison and for those involved in the thread, would you mind posting your lift numbers?

This is NOT so people can say “lol you’re weak” but just so we can see where you’re coming from.

You simply CANNOT know what it’s like to move those weights and CANNOT understand the type of stress it puts on your body. Period.

94

[quote] Brook wrote:
Because the stress your body goes through to lift all of your 115lb Squat, it no-where near the stress someone elses body goes through to rep out a 495lb squat.

You get to a certain point in your strength, that no matter how strong you get, the weights you lift will ALWAYS feel heavy… not like 2 plates used to feel heavy now feels light, (which i suspect you havent experienced - and there is nothing wrong in that as is, until you start to assume you know jack) but like 4 plates will always feel heavy. Even to someone who can pull 6.

While i am all for learning, etc. You do realise that your habit of questioning the most knowledgeable people on this board is really rude. It isnt so much of asking a question but questioning what they are TELLING you.

Insolence i believe it is called, and it shows your age.[/quote]

again im not trying to say he’s wrong, i was just asking.
i understand what you mean now though, i just havent experienced myself as you’ve pointed out. for me i think “ok my max felt heavy, now its twice as much but feels just as heavy” so do you see my logic in that?
i figured the same would apply when you get to heavier weights but i can see it being different because it’s probably not just how much the muscles themselves can lift but also how the joints, bones, body itself takes it right?

your example of how 4 plates always feels heavy makes sense.

95

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
David1991,

 Just for the sake of comparison and for those involved in the thread, would you mind posting your lift numbers?

This is NOT so people can say “lol you’re weak” but just so we can see where you’re coming from.

You simply CANNOT know what it’s like to move those weights and CANNOT understand the type of stress it puts on your body. Period. [/quote]

your right, i guess i cant really know what it feels like. like i said below i was going off the fact that im twice as strong in some lifts as i used to be but it felt just as heavy then. i can see it being different almost how like picking up some random objects will be heavy regardless of how much stronger you are if that makes sense lol.

that wasnt really my original point though, earlier i was just saying i dont see how you need to take 45min. for one muscle group with so many sets. and someone asked if i know people who do full body workouts and rep 405 which i do

(by the way i just want to point out i dont have a problem with splits, i like both methods)

96

[quote]David1991 wrote:
Brook wrote:
Because the stress your body goes through to lift all of your 115lb Squat, it no-where near the stress someone elses body goes through to rep out a 495lb squat.

You get to a certain point in your strength, that no matter how strong you get, the weights you lift will ALWAYS feel heavy… not like 2 plates used to feel heavy now feels light, (which i suspect you havent experienced - and there is nothing wrong in that as is, until you start to assume you know jack) but like 4 plates will always feel heavy. Even to someone who can pull 6.

While i am all for learning, etc. You do realise that your habit of questioning the most knowledgeable people on this board is really rude. It isnt so much of asking a question but questioning what they are TELLING you.

Insolence i believe it is called, and it shows your age.

again im not trying to say he’s wrong, i was just asking.
i understand what you mean now though, i just havent experienced myself as you’ve pointed out. for me i think “ok my max felt heavy, now its twice as much but feels just as heavy” so do you see my logic in that?
i figured the same would apply when you get to heavier weights but i can see it being different because it’s probably not just how much the muscles themselves can lift but also how the joints, bones, body itself takes it right?

your example of how 4 plates always feels heavy makes sense.[/quote]

I do see your logic, and you would think it would be correct - but in this case it is incorrect.

Correct on the connective and structural tissues. :wink:

Also think about the nervous system…

97

[quote]David1991 wrote:
again im not trying to say he’s wrong, i was just asking.
i understand what you mean now though, i just havent experienced myself as you’ve pointed out. for me i think “ok my max felt heavy, now its twice as much but feels just as heavy” so do you see my logic in that?
i figured the same would apply when you get to heavier weights but i can see it being different because it’s probably not just how much the muscles themselves can lift but also how the joints, bones, body itself takes it right?
[/quote]

It’s physics. Lifting 405 pounds 6 times is twice the work of 405 for 3 or 202.5 for 6 no matter of how heavy the weight feels. Regardless of one’s propensity to perform the work, the amount of work required to lift 405 for 6 is exactly the same.

Subjective accounts for how heavy the weight felt are just subjective accounts and do not make any difference when determining the amount of work that is done.

Given that the body has a finite capacity for work, if you use this capacity to move 405 with chest there will be nothing left to work another muscle group. One could (although for no good reason) move 200 with their chest and then do 200 for back, but they wouldn’t grow as much.

98

[quote]905Patrick wrote:
David1991 wrote:
again im not trying to say he’s wrong, i was just asking.
i understand what you mean now though, i just havent experienced myself as you’ve pointed out. for me i think “ok my max felt heavy, now its twice as much but feels just as heavy” so do you see my logic in that?
i figured the same would apply when you get to heavier weights but i can see it being different because it’s probably not just how much the muscles themselves can lift but also how the joints, bones, body itself takes it right?

It’s physics. Lifting 405 pounds 6 times is twice the work of 405 for 3 or 202.5 for 6 no matter of how heavy the weight feels. Regardless of one’s propensity to perform the work, the amount of work required to lift 405 for 6 is exactly the same.

Subjective accounts for how heavy the weight felt are just subjective accounts and do not make any difference when determining the amount of work that is done.

Given that the body has a finite capacity for work, if you use this capacity to move 405 with chest there will be nothing left to work another muscle group. One could (although for no good reason) move 200 with their chest and then do 200 for back, but they wouldn’t grow as much.[/quote]

hm well i see your point, i guess it would be so taxing on your body so you wouldnt be able to do another muscle group with enough intensity. it seems like that would be in limited cases though as most dont rep 405. Prof. X is one of those who can though so i see it for him…but no so much for less experienced people.

99

I may not rep 405, but I train with extreme intensity. When I try to train more than one major muscle group with the same level of intensity that I do when I hit one by itself it doesn’t work out so well. I feel like absolute shit less than half way through my workout.

Another issue I have with TBT workouts is I never “feel” like I have done enough for each muscle. And as profX pointed out you end up neglecting important things like lateral raises and such for the medial portion of the delt (which is the part that makes your shoulders “pop”) your medial delt can never be too big.

100

[quote]David1991 wrote:
hm well i see your point, i guess it would be so taxing on your body so you wouldnt be able to do another muscle group with enough intensity. it seems like that would be in limited cases though as most dont rep 405. Prof. X is one of those who can though so i see it for him…but no so much for less experienced people. [/quote]

I don’t understand why you would say limited case.

As one performs work the capacity for future work decreases. They can put all of their effort into one body part and get great results or they can put it into 2 or 3 or full body and get lesser results.

Keep in mind that the finite capacity for work increases with training so after 5 years one may be able to rep 315 and after 7 years it could be 405. How they decide to perform work is what will get them the results they are looking for.