Wrestler Decides Not to Face Female at Iowa State Finals

Off Topic
61

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
If it truly was for religious reasons, then anybody giving him shit should be ashamed of themselves, knocking on the kid for sticking to his beliefs. If he was bullshitting, and was just afraid to get his ass handed to him, that’s pathetic. Treat her like any other wrestler. If he was worried about getting in trouble of some sort for “sexual harassment” then I can totally understand, with how schools and society in general are about lawsuits. It’s not a simple situation. [/quote]

Agreed.

However he was like 44-5 so I doubt that he was overly concerned with getting beat.

62

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If women are capable of and should be accepted in male sports, then there should not be female exclusive sports.[/quote]

I agree with this! Kendo, in high school, was always confusing for me because I’d have to fight in the regular matches, then on the team matches, then in the women’s division, and then on the women’s team.

There was this tiny 5th degree black belt woman who would get thrown around by the 30 year old, very fit guys in the 3rd-5th degree division and she regularly won first! Then she’d have to go and fight the women in their division.

It never made much sense to me. My sensei thought he was doing the women a favor and giving them equal rights, but why? Several of them were already winning first in the regular divisions.

63

Also, I don’t get guys being scared of fighting and accidently hurting a woman in a wrestling sport. I’ve been choked out, thrown against concrete and walls, and engaged guys much larger than myself. Where do you get the idea a woman doesn’t think she’s going to get grabbed and probably bruised up quite a bit? Fucking bullshit. If I wanted flowers and cute shoes I’d stick to salsa.

64

Strikes me as odd that the chicks would be in the same tournament with the guys in the first place. I have no idea what it’s like for you Americans, but when I was wrestling growing up there was always separate divisions for the guys and girls and generally plenty of wrestlers to go around (unless you happened to be in one of the extremes of the weight classes, ie superheavy or supertiny).

That being said, if I were ever put in the same situation I imagine I would’ve wrestled her. I’m not sure I would’ve been happy about it, but I probably would’ve done everything I could to finish the match as quickly as possible. I remember one match I had, can’t remember how old I was, against this kid who probably shouldn’t have even been wrestling. Something was wrong with his legs or his hips, his lower body kinda wiggled and wobbled when he walked, y’know? We got on the mat and I blew him off his feet with a double leg and pinned him inside 30 seconds, if not faster. Toying around with someone in a match is pretty disrespectful, I feel.

65

Religious reasons are what they are. Kids that age just don’t have an option to question them. That outta the way, nobody should go easy on her due to her having lady parts.

Semi-related:

I had a fairly hot judo instructor subbing few years back, and as one of the big guys (I’m not really big, but it’s a small class) I rolled with her. I was an absolute beginner. Somehow we got to a position where she tried to choke me with her knees… only it was more like her ties around my head. I’m pretty tough to choke in general, so it didn’t happen. But I wasn’t in much of a hurry to get out, either. I was enjoying myself.

Does that make me a bad person? xD

67

[quote]TheJonty wrote:
“Strikes me as odd that the chicks would be in the same tournament with the guys in the first place.”

Agreed. IMO, If there aren’t enough girls interested in a women’s division, then the sport shouldn’t be open to girls, at least in a contact sport like wrestling.

I will say that if my daughter wanted to wrestle, I’d find another outlet for her athleticism, but I don’t get why women want to box either. In my opinion, the Women’s Movement didn’t need to take us all the way to the wrestling mat or boxing ring. I’m OK with that.

I have a 15-year-old son. He blushes from head to toe if a girl even talks to him. Putting him under the pressure of a State competition and then expecting him to wrestle a girl would be BEYOND mortifying. It might not have been a problem back in grade school when kids are less aware. Back then the girls still had cooties, but by the time they are in high school it’s just pretty strange to expect boys to engage girls in a contact sport like wrestling. These high school kids have figured out that boys and girls are different. Why can’t the adults figure that out? I guess I’m happy my son is a distance runner so we don’t have to deal with this one at our house.

68

[quote]John S. wrote:

If he was ranked number 5, that tells me she was ranked either number 4 or 6, as seeding charts usually work that way. I’d have to research how big the pool is out there, however, I simply don’t buy that “moral” code nonsense. It just doesn’t wash. [/quote]

She was 20-13 and he wasn’t the only guy who refused to wrestle her this year.[/quote]

In addition, she was the first and only female to ever win at the state level. I doubt any guy there would worry about it. Do you think anyone who has put that much effort in to being the best is going to worry about being embarrassed by a loss? Or maybe he just wanted to make it harder on himself and win through the losers bracket?

Another article says he was supposed to wrestle the other girl during regular season and refused.

69

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Also, I don’t get guys being scared of fighting and accidently hurting a woman in a wrestling sport. I’ve been choked out, thrown against concrete and walls, and engaged guys much larger than myself. Where do you get the idea a woman doesn’t think she’s going to get grabbed and probably bruised up quite a bit? Fucking bullshit. If I wanted flowers and cute shoes I’d stick to salsa.[/quote]

With this in mind I’m sure you’re on board with the idea of letting men play on women’s basketball and hockey teams, right?[/quote]

What does that have to do with it?

My thought on the issue is there are certain sports where men have a distinct advantage and different leagues make sense, such as lifting, football, boxing, UFC, and pretty much anything where strength and explosive power make a large difference. However, there are other sports, such as kendo, where finesse and timing are what make a winner.

However, in the explosive sports, the explosive and strength abilities only make a difference if the player has the same level of skill as their opponent. For instance, take an old schooled boxer and put him with a younger, inexperienced, yet stronger and faster opponent. He is going to beat that kid, hands down, in about three moves. There are plenty of youtube videos attesting to this. In the same light, a very experienced female jujitsu opponent will take out a stronger and faster, much less experienced guy of the same weight class.

I used to love watching my sensei’s slightly over-weight, older daughter beat her lightening fast brother. One time I got switched over to her team and set up against him and she told me “Stay too far inside or outside of his range and wait for him to make a mistake. He always does.”

He was super pissed that after 16 years of experience he only scored one point on me, who only had 3 years experience and wasn’t close to as fast as he was.

Cliff notes:
Experience matters.
It’s a case-by-case sport-by-sport call.

70

I don’t get the “let men play on women’s volleyball team” argument. Is that just to test the boundaries of the people in favor of the girl wrestling with the boys?

Because there are already men’s teams for those sports, so why blatantly try to play with the women?

If she was wrestling with the guys because there were no female competitions AT THAT LEVEL, then that makes sense. Equity is fine, but so long as there’s equal opportunity for BOTH genders’ sports, there’s no “issue.”

It’s not just about religion or “pussing out.” I think men in general are HARD WIRED to not be as physically aggressive–if at all–with women, and that seems to a legit point that’s unfairly overlooked when discussing this issues, particularly when WOMEN discuss them:

“That asshole forfeited to take away from her achievement!”

No, that “asshole” was probably raised a certain way AND his natural instinct was to not get violent with a girl. This is a point that women will NEVER understand because they’re not men. Men understand it, though.

71

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I don’t get the “let men play on women’s volleyball team” argument. Is that just to test the boundaries of the people in favor of the girl wrestling with the boys?

Because there are already men’s teams for those sports, so why blatantly try to play with the women?

If she was wrestling with the guys because there were no female competitions AT THAT LEVEL, then that makes sense. Equity is fine, but so long as there’s equal opportunity for BOTH genders’ sports, there’s no “issue.”

It’s not just about religion or “pussing out.” I think men in general are HARD WIRED to not be as physically aggressive–if at all–with women, and that seems to a legit point that’s unfairly overlooked when discussing this issues, particularly when WOMEN discuss them:

“That asshole forfeited to take away from her achievement!”

No, that “asshole” was probably raised a certain way AND his natural instinct was to not get violent with a girl. This is a point that women will NEVER understand because they’re not men. Men understand it, though.[/quote]

It was wrestling, not freaking UFC or boxing. I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.

72

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
it would of been funny if he wrestled her and manoeuvred her into different sexual positions and dry humped her… you know doggy, cowgirl etc… lol[/quote]

Marzouk, you are ok in my book.[/quote]

Internet tough guy I guess.

No the respectful thing is for her to realize it is a male tournament

In BJJ we have females, but they have their own brackets.

73

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I don’t get the “let men play on women’s volleyball team” argument. Is that just to test the boundaries of the people in favor of the girl wrestling with the boys?

Because there are already men’s teams for those sports, so why blatantly try to play with the women?

If she was wrestling with the guys because there were no female competitions AT THAT LEVEL, then that makes sense. Equity is fine, but so long as there’s equal opportunity for BOTH genders’ sports, there’s no “issue.”

It’s not just about religion or “pussing out.” I think men in general are HARD WIRED to not be as physically aggressive–if at all–with women, and that seems to a legit point that’s unfairly overlooked when discussing this issues, particularly when WOMEN discuss them:

“That asshole forfeited to take away from her achievement!”

No, that “asshole” was probably raised a certain way AND his natural instinct was to not get violent with a girl. This is a point that women will NEVER understand because they’re not men. Men understand it, though.[/quote]

It was wrestling, not freaking UFC or boxing. I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/quote]

Have you ever wrestled competitively? Because judging by that statement I’d guess no. It is a combat sport, not a skill sport.

74

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
it would of been funny if he wrestled her and manoeuvred her into different sexual positions and dry humped her… you know doggy, cowgirl etc… lol[/quote]

Marzouk, you are ok in my book.[/quote]

Internet tough guy I guess.

No the respectful thing is for her to realize it is a male tournament

In BJJ we have females, but they have their own brackets.

[/quote]

How many guys did she beat in order to be put up against him?

75

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I don’t get the “let men play on women’s volleyball team” argument. Is that just to test the boundaries of the people in favor of the girl wrestling with the boys?

Because there are already men’s teams for those sports, so why blatantly try to play with the women?

If she was wrestling with the guys because there were no female competitions AT THAT LEVEL, then that makes sense. Equity is fine, but so long as there’s equal opportunity for BOTH genders’ sports, there’s no “issue.”

It’s not just about religion or “pussing out.” I think men in general are HARD WIRED to not be as physically aggressive–if at all–with women, and that seems to a legit point that’s unfairly overlooked when discussing this issues, particularly when WOMEN discuss them:

“That asshole forfeited to take away from her achievement!”

No, that “asshole” was probably raised a certain way AND his natural instinct was to not get violent with a girl. This is a point that women will NEVER understand because they’re not men. Men understand it, though.[/quote]

The deal with boys play female sports is that it is wrong to allow either gender more opportunity to play.

Say women can play on mens basketball if they are good enough, and if they aren’t they can join the women’s team. Well, what if a boy wants to play but isn’t good enough for the men’s team? Why would you afford more opportunity to women than men?

It should either be separate or not.

It’s like the girl that started playing men’s AND women’s golf. If she can do that, the men should get to play on the ladies league. Literally the girls have the opportunity to play more tournaments and win more money, even get more tour experience. That shouldn’t be. It’s literally sexual discrimination that limits the career of a male vs a female counterpart of equal ability.

It’s the same situation with kids, only with the privilege of playing rather than money. Given a boy and a girl of equal ability the girl may have the opportunity to play, where the boy does not.

76

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Rico Suave wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If women are capable of and should be accepted in male sports, then there should not be female exclusive sports.[/quote]

There isn’t for this sport. Wrestling is an exception to the norm because of the weight classes in place. Skill can make up for a deficit in strength/speed as well (to a point). That is not the case in most sports.[/quote]

There are also sports where the natural physical attributes of a girl are more suited to the task, but boys aren’t allowed to compete. (gymnastics, kicking, est.)

There are also a lot of sports where physicality is pretty even. Pool, table tennis, bowling, est. That there isn’t a mixing of the genders.

If there is a need for female sports then females should play female sports. (there is apparently female wrestling already)[/quote]

Are girls really more qualified (“physical attributes” as you said) to participate in gymnastics then males?? how so? don’t give me flexibility reasons because that isn’t true for any male gymnast.

I wouldn’t really consider pool or table tennis to be a sport. bowling somewhat. Although I completely agree with you that these “sports” should not be gender specific.

I agree again with you that females should play with only females. However, if a female is truly capable of competing against a guy then why not? It is a KNOWN fact, whether anyone would like to admit it or not, but males ARE better than females at SPORTS. Therefore, if a female can compete with men then they should be given the opportunity. However, I have yet to see a female who can compete against males. (compete = on the same skill level as men and not just the physical act of competing)[/quote]

No girls are not better at gymnastics. The top female gymnasts can’t even dream of doing the things the top men can do.

I agree with all of your post except the part about ping pong. It’s way more of a sport than bowling. Watch some world class video. Some amazing stuff goes on at a ping pong table.[/quote]

You’re right. ping pong is probably more of a sport than bowling. Way more gross physical skill and fine motor skills.

You know what edge, I don’t care what the rest of these people say about you. You’re OK in my books.

77

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I don’t get the “let men play on women’s volleyball team” argument. Is that just to test the boundaries of the people in favor of the girl wrestling with the boys?

Because there are already men’s teams for those sports, so why blatantly try to play with the women?

If she was wrestling with the guys because there were no female competitions AT THAT LEVEL, then that makes sense. Equity is fine, but so long as there’s equal opportunity for BOTH genders’ sports, there’s no “issue.”

It’s not just about religion or “pussing out.” I think men in general are HARD WIRED to not be as physically aggressive–if at all–with women, and that seems to a legit point that’s unfairly overlooked when discussing this issues, particularly when WOMEN discuss them:

“That asshole forfeited to take away from her achievement!”

No, that “asshole” was probably raised a certain way AND his natural instinct was to not get violent with a girl. This is a point that women will NEVER understand because they’re not men. Men understand it, though.[/quote]

It was wrestling, not freaking UFC or boxing. I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/quote]

Have you ever wrestled competitively? Because judging by that statement I’d guess no. It is a combat sport, not a skill sport.[/quote]

If you mean competed with someone keeping score, no. If you mean been thrown against a floor so hard I couldn’t yawn all the way for a week, then yes (and I eventually pinned the person who did that, FWIW)

There’s a huge difference between taking a kidney/face shot and wrestling sports. I’m sorry, but they are nowhere close to the same thing as far as violence goes.

Everyone who I know who’s boxed has eventually quit due to injuries such as brain damage. My wrestling friend, who’s competed in a few MMA fights, is still uninjured after over 15 years. He would not agree with you that wrestling is on par with the other sports in terms of violence and he competed for three years on the state level.

78

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

The deal with boys play female sports is that it is wrong to allow either gender more opportunity to play.
[/quote]

Valid. So, how about if a female decides to play with men, she cannot register to play with in the female equivalent of the sport.

Fair?

79

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I don’t get the “let men play on women’s volleyball team” argument. Is that just to test the boundaries of the people in favor of the girl wrestling with the boys?

Because there are already men’s teams for those sports, so why blatantly try to play with the women?

If she was wrestling with the guys because there were no female competitions AT THAT LEVEL, then that makes sense. Equity is fine, but so long as there’s equal opportunity for BOTH genders’ sports, there’s no “issue.”

It’s not just about religion or “pussing out.” I think men in general are HARD WIRED to not be as physically aggressive–if at all–with women, and that seems to a legit point that’s unfairly overlooked when discussing this issues, particularly when WOMEN discuss them:

“That asshole forfeited to take away from her achievement!”

No, that “asshole” was probably raised a certain way AND his natural instinct was to not get violent with a girl. This is a point that women will NEVER understand because they’re not men. Men understand it, though.[/quote]

The deal with boys play female sports is that it is wrong to allow either gender more opportunity to play.

Say women can play on mens basketball if they are good enough, and if they aren’t they can join the women’s team. Well, what if a boy wants to play but isn’t good enough for the men’s team? Why would you afford more opportunity to women than men?

It should either be separate or not.

It’s like the girl that started playing men’s AND women’s golf. If she can do that, the men should get to play on the ladies league. Literally the girls have the opportunity to play more tournaments and win more money, even get more tour experience. That shouldn’t be. It’s literally sexual discrimination that limits the career of a male vs a female counterpart of equal ability.

It’s the same situation with kids, only with the privilege of playing rather than money. Given a boy and a girl of equal ability the girl may have the opportunity to play, where the boy does not.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying and it’s a great point.

80

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

The deal with boys play female sports is that it is wrong to allow either gender more opportunity to play.
[/quote]

Valid. So, how about if a female decides to play with men, she cannot register to play with in the female equivalent of the sport.

Fair?[/quote]

Fair. Plus, do you have any idea how exhausting it is to have to compete in two divisions on the same day?

Also, for whoever said they’ve never seen a female beat a male at sports, I really hope you only meant that on the olympic level, because it happens all the time in the lesser levels.