Whether propionate is painful or not depends on the specific preparation. There is nothing inherently painful about the compound.
Btw Bushy and Bill can you guys co-author a book together about AAS and it’s proper usage? I’d buy it. lol
Actually Millard Baker (of Mesomorphosis) did try to get me to write a book with him handling the publishing, but I could not motivate myself to do it. I don’t see the point in rewriting what has already been written. But thank you for the compliment!
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Actually Millard Baker (of Mesomorphosis) did try to get me to write a book with him handling the publishing, but I could not motivate myself to do it. I don’t see the point in rewriting what has already been written. But thank you for the compliment![/quote]
Awww man. Is there actually any new literature out there that is geared towards drug use in bodybuilding? Or would that be too sketchy to get published?
I dunno. There’s an old saying with a lot of truth to it: There’s much that’s new, and much that’s true, but not much that’s both new and true.
That is particularly so when it comes to anabolic steroid use. I’m not saying there’s flat nothing left, but for the most part if it’s useful and true, it’s already out there.
waylanderxx,
I get 1642mg for initial dose of test e as a frontload for 1000mg/w taken in 500mg 2x/w doses. I used a half-life of 8 days and the calculation is as follows:
(1000 * 8) / 7 = 1142 + 500 = 1642mg
(weekly dose * half-life) / (days in week) + interval dosage = front load
I would definitely be interested to see how 1gram/w works for you.
If you are not impressed by week 3 or so, why not salvage by adding some dbol?
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
waylanderxx,
I get 1642mg for initial dose of test e as a frontload for 1000mg/w taken in 500mg 2x/w doses. I used a half-life of 8 days and the calculation is as follows:
(1000 * 8) / 7 = 1142 + 500 = 1642mg
(weekly dose * half-life) / (days in week) + interval dosage = front load
I would definitely be interested to see how 1gram/w works for you.
If you are not impressed by week 3 or so, why not salvage by adding some dbol?[/quote]
I was under the impression that the enth ester half life was closer to 5-6 days.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
waylanderxx,
I get 1642mg for initial dose of test e as a frontload for 1000mg/w taken in 500mg 2x/w doses. I used a half-life of 8 days and the calculation is as follows:
(1000 * 8) / 7 = 1142 + 500 = 1642mg
(weekly dose * half-life) / (days in week) + interval dosage = front load
I would definitely be interested to see how 1gram/w works for you.
If you are not impressed by week 3 or so, why not salvage by adding some dbol?[/quote]
Dynamo once again you come to the rescue haha thanks! Thanks for listing out the steps to calculate that. So just to make sure, when frontloading, is it just the first day that recives the mega dose or is it split in half, for both days that week?
So would the first injection be 1642 and the second injection be 500 for the first week and then go to normal dosing, or would the first be 821 and the second 821?
As to the second part, I really don’t want to order anything else for the time being. I find AAS to be extremely addicting and it’s difficult for me to make sure I give myself sufficient off periods for my HPTA to recover. So basically, if I have something, I’ll take it, I just want to be careful. On another note, I want to see how my body will respond to test alone at this dose, I don’t want to throw in any other variables for this cycle.
Not to mention I only have about $30 cash on me at the moment (I used my savings to fund the first cycle, I refuse to do that again) 
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
egnatiosj wrote:
My point is more that on 500mg/week you noticed great strength gains- a sign of the testosterone working, and also you noticed an drastic increase in weight over a mere 8/weeks. Now say the sust took a week to kick in thats a 12pound increase over a span of seven weeks- IMO pretty good gains.
Now given that you were probably over 250 before even starting your cycle you should have been in the range of almost 5000cal/day. From a previous post, I noticed that you lived in a dorm which makes me doubt that you were able to get that much in each and every day. (Has nothing to do with you, just the fact that I know how dorm life is)
Also considering that you a paying so much for test I would think that you would want to use the minimum amount that you had to. Also, you are only 19 so if you take into consideration that you will probably be using AAS for a while, jumping up quickly is a bad idea, you will be on multiple grams of gear a week before you know it… Just something to consider, Im not trynig to deter you or knock your cycle in any way. Just hoping to give you something to think about.
Well the thing about my dorm is the cafeteria is downstairs and I have the “unlimited” plan. So I am usually in there 5-6 times a day and I always have 1700 calories in shakes per day. That doesn’t even include my meals after the cafeteria closes at 7:30. Trust me, I was eating a lot.
Look if I am running test by itself I’m probably going to do a lot. If I add in other compounds I wont use as much.
Are you saying its ok for me to use 500 mg’s wk of test and 400 of deca but 1g of test is ridiculous? That’s still about 1g total for both cycle options but for some reason the 1g of test alone is looked down on for being too much, doesn’t make much sense.
[/quote]
Way-
I wasn’t doubting you or implying anything about your diet I just put it out there for consideration. I never said anything about using nandrolone deca, and I never said 1g/test was ridiculous. I was merely giving food for thought…
egnatiosj,
You get a lot of varying opinions on that. I used Bill Robert’s test cyp half-life estimate.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
waylanderxx,
I get 1642mg for initial dose of test e as a frontload for 1000mg/w taken in 500mg 2x/w doses. I used a half-life of 8 days and the calculation is as follows:
(1000 * 8) / 7 = 1142 + 500 = 1642mg
(weekly dose * half-life) / (days in week) + interval dosage = front load
I would definitely be interested to see how 1gram/w works for you.
If you are not impressed by week 3 or so, why not salvage by adding some dbol?
Dynamo once again you come to the rescue haha thanks! Thanks for listing out the steps to calculate that. So just to make sure, when frontloading, is it just the first day that recives the mega dose or is it split in half, for both days that week?
So would the first injection be 1642 and the second injection be 500 for the first week and then go to normal dosing, or would the first be 821 and the second 821?
As to the second part, I really don’t want to order anything else for the time being. I find AAS to be extremely addicting and it’s difficult for me to make sure I give myself sufficient off periods for my HPTA to recover. So basically, if I have something, I’ll take it, I just want to be careful. On another note, I want to see how my body will respond to test alone at this dose, I don’t want to throw in any other variables for this cycle.
Not to mention I only have about $30 cash on me at the moment (I used my savings to fund the first cycle, I refuse to do that again) ;)[/quote]
I am fairly certain the enth ester is less than eight days, hopefully BR can set us straight but I believe the calculation is 1.3g (which I posted earlier).
Dynamo:
Cypionate CERTAINLY has a longer half life than enthan does… which means hed be over dosing.
Did BR recommend using the cypionate ester to calculate a frontload for enthanate?
Way,
Yes that would be the complete 1642mg frontload in the first injection and your regular 500mg 1/2 week later and continuously throughout the cycle. Bill Roberts said you can give or take 100mg as it is not essential to be overly precise.
I would inject 800mg in two different sites, but 1642mg is doable in one site like glute or ventroglute.
I only recommended the dbol because it is relatively cheap and I enjoyed the strength, drive and well being it offers very much. Even then I only recommended it if you happen to bum out after 3 weeks on the 1g of test e in order to salvage a non-productive cycle - which I doubt will be the case.
edit: I realize I was wrong about being able to shoot this amount (now 1400mg) in one site. That would be 5.6 ml at 250mg/ml. I would split that into at least 2 glutes or ventro glutes.
egnatiosj,
Here are Bill’s words:
Brook, yes, there’s a benefit.
If it’s the case that the blood levels associated with ongoing use of the doses you plan give you what you want, why have the first week or so way below those levels and the second week just coming up on them? Why not get to them right away?
A big part of why many say “Nothing happened in my first two weeks” is because they didn’t frontload.
If you frontload, and are using a substantial dose you ought to see a substantial increase in scale weight by day 4. Usually not so or not anything like it if not frontloading and using the same dose, unless the planned dose is so high that even being at partial levels is good enough.
For example if planning on using 4.5 grams per week (1.5 g three times per week), then just doing it straight, no frontloading, will still give a reasonable start. But most do not use such doses, nor need to – not even an NPC competitor typically needs that much. I mention it only to be thorough, not because it is often relevant, it isn’t.
Mlettier, let’s not use 13 days for the half-life of testosterone cypionate as I don’t think that is right. Let’s use 8 days. Aside from having a literature reference on that (which doesn’t prove it’s exactly right) it seems in practice to be about right or maybe even a touch long, for example it might really be 7 days.
But using 8 days and let’s say your planned rate was 750 mg/week (it wasn’t clear to me exactly what you were looking at in that regard, but if that isn’t the rate, substituting another number and redoing the calculation will work fine.)
So if the half-life is 8 days and the planned rate is 750 mg/week, the planned average amount of use per half-life is 750 mg times 8 divided by 7, or 857 mg.
If planning to inject that 750 mg as 250 mg three times per week, then the first injection is, or should approximate, 857 mg plus 250 mg. Which would be about 1107 mg. There’s no need to be so extremely precise, so for example 1000 mg or 1125 or 1250 mg would be acceptable substitutes.
The amount needed to get to what will be the ongoing level already having been provided, the next injection and all others need be only the ongoing 250 mg injections.
Basically, the first injection gets you right away to where you plan to be, and the following injections keep you there.
In contrast, if you just injected 250 mg on day 1, not only would your levels not be commensurate with the 750 mg/week level, nor would they be commensurate with the 250 mg/week level: they would be commensurate with about the 125 mg/week level or slightly less. So the cycle is starting off with an absolute whimper when done this way. Not the way to go.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
egnatiosj,
it seems in practice to be about right or maybe even a touch long, for example it might really be 7 days.
[/quote]
okay but that was for CYPIONATE. ENANTHATE is a different ester and has one less carbon. and even in this post he says cypionate is might be closer to seven which would make E less than that.
You have a point. Way: you can always PM Bill Roberts. I am sure he’d be happy to help. Like I said it is not critical to get it exact as the blood levels will balance out as the in a short matter of time with the 500mg twice weekly doses. IMO, it is better to overshoot slightly than undershoot in jump starting a relatively short cycle with a medium to long ester.
Hah I just realized that if you look on page one Bill says 1400 mg’s for the first injection. Appreciate the help guys. Thanks dynamo for clarifying the frontloading protocol.
Anytime. It appears BR used a little more than 6 days as the test e half-life.
I intended to use 6 days.
Lessee:
Ongoing injection amount: 500 mg
Weekly usage: 1000 mg
Amount used per half-life: 1000 mg x (6/7) = 857 mg
Sum of ongoing injection amount and amount injected per half-life: 1357 mg
I rounded up to 1400 mg on the assumption the product was 200 mg/mL and noting that most psychologically prefer round numbers of mL.