I was wondering if you were training for explosive strength and power, I’m guessing you should get serious size out of that too right?? I mean you don’t see little weaklings curling 150lbs or anything like that, hehe, i’m not going to mention bench press cause i’ve seen little guys bench quite a bit. But say you train purely on strength programs, and sometimes volume or mass ones, but isnt those mass programs used to also get good strength?? Just say you did the 12 weeks to super strength, for anyone that has did it, did you gain good size while getting super strength too?? cause i do want to train mostly for explosive power and strength, i was just thinking that i should get good size out of that too…anyone know for sure? thx.
If you train for explosive power ie reps below 5 you will gain funtional size. You’ll be training type 2b fibers and the nervous system. So yes will put on size
The way I think to view that would be that if you are training for strength then size is not the major concern. Same goes for size training, size is the primary concern not strength. You will reap both benefits when doing size or strength training but not to the degree that you would if your were doing one specificaly. Diet, supplementation, rest ect… will also determine the degree of those extra benefits while training for one specific goal.
After doing a 3 month powerlifting cycle I noticed my upper thighs, parts of my back and triceps grew a LOT more than on my normal routine (6-10 reps). So now I train those particular bodyparts in the 1-5 rep range and everything is growing well. I’d say chest, biceps and lats grow better with the higher reps. Although… maybe this is just because of my personal fibre make up. Although I kinda doubt it. Arnold did 6-10 reps mostly and his biceps, chest and lats where fantastic while the legs, triceps, back thickness were lacking. Similarly, most powerlifters don’t have huge biceps, chest and lats (they ARE thick… very thick, but don’t usually have that roundish big look). Plus, more guys in the gym that are too small are either training very badly (technique, overtraining) and NOT eating properly, so need to look at what they’re doing at say it must be wrong because their nutrition is probably the problem.
Training for power is noble, not many people do it. Your gains in mass will be limited since the best way to add mass is to keep reps between 8-12 with a relatively slow negative. Also, sets should take maybe 45 seconds or so (correct me if Im wrong) This wont allow you to use the speed you need, and also the weight. Strict power exercises are Olympic lifts which do not have much of the growth producing negative. By the way, when you talk about power do you mean power in the vertical jump or the strength need for a bench press which is not power at all (velocity x weight)
Explosive strength? 150 pound guys in the olympics can jerk 350 pounds, these guys train low reps, heavy weight. It also depends on the percentage of slow to fast twitch muscle fibers an indivdual has. Natural athaletes have a higher porportion of fast twitch fibers, so they react better to low reps, heavy weight. Most people have a higher level of slow twitch muscle fibers, so they react better to medium weights and 8-12 reps. It depends on athletic ability.
well to tell you the truth, i would like to have the best of both worlds, but if it comes to chosing one just a little more over the other, then strength would be it, it would just be nice to be strong as hell, i’m sure you can have pretty good size, you don’t have to be huge, but also have immense strength, i was also wondering if i just kept on changing my programs, after doing them, programs from here like starting off with 12 weeks to super strength, then move on to the back and great guns in 12 weeks, then one day arm cure around there sometime, followed by the german volume training and oscilating wave program…that should get me good strength and size if i follow it to the word exactly, and follow the get big diet, while if i want to get cut, go with the t-dawg…and ofcourse taking a week or so in between courses…what do ya think??
Rick, to answer your very last question, does anyone know for sure? I would have to say absolutely no. Todays for sures are tomorrows laughables. My guess is that every person as a whole is drastically different than anyone else. I would say, follow a certain rep range protocol, document your results in a training manual, assess your results. Benefit spillover is inevitable. You cannot get a whole lot bigger without having the “potential” to get stronger. I was going to say just get stronger, but that is not entirely true. for example, if you do a 10 rep cycle and get huge, when you go back to a low rep cycle, initially you are potentially going to underperform than at the tail end of your previous low rep cycle. when the low of repeated efforts comes into play, your performance at the end of this low rep cycle comes, you should be performing more than at the end of the previous low rep cycle. conversly, by getting stronger, you are setting yourself up for the ability to do more output at the higher rep schemes and get bigger than you were previously.
Rick, I did the 12 Weeks to Super Strength. You will not develop great strength, be assured. The tempos are to slow, therefore you cannot move weight explosively. It is a great program however, for hypertrophy and strengthening your stabilizer muscles. For strength use anything by Poliquin, 1-6 priciple or Maximal Weights Theory. Better yet anything by Westside Barbell Club.
Lots of good thoughts here. I definitely agree with Jagin’s point. There are certain highly functional parts of your body that will respond very well with powerlifting and olympic lifting training.
JRR, I would guess that you did something wrong if you didn’t get any stronger on the 12 week program. The lifts are not always “too slow.” I need more information to pinpoint exactly what went wrong, but you may have been too aggressive in the volume options. That will certainly inhibit neural recovery and consequently strength gains. (P.S. what muscles would you classify as “stabilizer muscles?”)
I’ll add that the caryover of strength is much greater with pure strength training. In other words, making your nervous system more efficient at recruiting high threshold fibers will significantly add to your strength in higher rep ranges as well, ultimately leading to greater hypertrophy. So including those low rep training periods has more impact than you may think…
Powerlifting routines do put on some muscle but not as quick as a good bodybuilding program, and a bodybuilding program will not give you huge amounts of strength. If you want to do both, you have to use both and compile them into one program.
I think the main factor is genetics. I’ve never gotten any results from traditional bodybuilding programs (8-12 reps). Then I did the 80% 1rm repout test, and found out I was all fast-twitch (which made sense because I was a sprinter). Once I started following Poliquin’s various low-rep multi-set protocols, I blew up. If you are like me and just getting 4 reps with 80%1rm, low reps high-sets will work for size. Oh, also OL by itself will not give you size. Incorporating OL in the beggining of a workout to activate higher-threshold motor units, will work well for size though (eg, jump squats and then heavy front squats, or hang cleans and then DL’s).
Doug, Just to clarify; I did not get any stronger in my core lifts, bench, squat, deadlift. In fact, i struggled to maintain previous highs. I did get stronger in all other areas and achieved hypertrophy while cutting up quite a bit.
You WILL add some size on a strength/explosive program more than likely, but just how much size is determined by your genetics!!! If you are predominantly a white fiber(fast twitch) individual your gains will be awsome. But, are you that genetic freak??