Workout to Save the Lower Back?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Ignore Dragncarry; he is unfortunately assessing the rest of the world form his own, limited experience.

You have NO IDEA what is causing her back pain. To go with the idea that “well she’s probably weak as piss - do some glute activation work” is potentially a philosophy that could ensure your ‘really good friend’ becomes crippled in pain.

Whilst I admire your desire to help your friend, I STRONGLY urge you to proceed with caution.

Your plan: “I really want to get her doing complex movements and full body stuff, but also want to save her back” is going to be very hard to do unless you are some sort of back specialist with a strong knowledge in exercise technique/biomechanics/soft tissue work, etc.

she has a bad back so why not actually plan a workout that stresses all the major muscle groups, but without loading the lower back.

Then you can compliment the work done to the rest of the body, buy specifically isolating and strengthening/activating ALL those muscles that might have a part to play in her back pain.

So that would be (to start with): erector spinae, QLs, glutes (all three, bilaterally), piriformis, psoas, rec.fem, ITB, TFL, adductors, hamstrings, rec. abdominus, TVA, int. + ext. obliques.

All the above muscles need to be carefully assesses for length, strength, intra and inter-muscular co-ordination. Can you do that?

Some of the truly ‘back sparing’ exercises I could reccommend might be:

Chest supported row
Lat pulldowns (different grips)
Bench press
Seated shoulder press (not standing)
Seated dumbell raises
Split squats and lunges (pain permitting)

Again, I admire you desire you help your friend but please don’t let your enthusiasm get in the way of ‘duty of care’.

BBB[/quote]

I’ve heard the reverse hyper criticized because of the reverse shear stress it imposes on the lumbar spine. Wouldn’t the chest supported row be guilty of this as well? Not that I completely buy the premise that this is harmful, but I want to know what you think. Have you been on the boards lately, or have I just missed it?

-Conor

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Bushidobadboy, is there anything I can do if I have one of the Quadratus Lumborum permamently more tense (stronger/shorter) then the other one?

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Well, I have shorter left leg. I also play tennis (right hand). My left QL is tighter. My left glute is weaker. My left hip has less internal rotation. Right one, less external rotation.

I also have pains in my butt cheeks and hips. I have already learned a lot. I do lots od exercises for hips, glutes and throacic spine. But I don’t know how can I address Quadratus Lumborum. Oh, and if you know what can I do on my own to release tension from hips and glutes (other then stretching and resting) I would love to know. Currently I am doing Maigne’s exercises - if you heard of them…

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So I discovered this site awhile back, and I have been reading up on alot of the forums, to gain more knowledge on weight lifting and nutrition. I have had lower back problems as well, and I have even tried going to a chiropractor before, but he focused on runners, so it didn’t really help me out.

BBB, I am almost positive I have the same issue that you are talking about. My right leg is shorter, and I have had trigger points in my hips and right lower back. Anyways, I’m glad I read this, I’m going to start doing more research now that I actually know what to look for.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

I personally think the reverse hyper is a great exercise for glute activation - if done properly.

BBB[/quote]

Could you explain how a reverse hyper can be done improperly?
Would you recommend it for the OP’s friend, for strengthening the lower back and glute activation?

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Sportowiec wrote:
Well, I have shorter left leg. I also play tennis (right hand). My left QL is tighter. My left glute is weaker. My left hip has less internal rotation. Right one, less external rotation.

I also have pains in my butt cheeks and hips. I have already learned a lot. I do lots od exercises for hips, glutes and throacic spine. But I don’t know how can I address Quadratus Lumborum. Oh, and if you know what can I do on my own to release tension from hips and glutes (other then stretching and resting) I would love to know. Currently I am doing Maigne’s exercises - if you heard of them…

Odd that it’s your L QL, when it’s your left leg that is shorter.

Anyway, your reduced internal rotation would suggest tight/short external rotators, most likely the piriformis muscle. I suggest you try foam rolling it, or using a tennis ball or cricket ball if the foam isn’t hard enough.

Regarding the QL self-treatment; it’s a tricky one to do solo and indeed I haven’t found a solution that I am happy with. Of course, if you were with someone they could triggerpoint it for you, but alone, it’s hard to do.

BBB[/quote]

thanks for advice. Few more things to think about regarding my rehab protocol…

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I have had lower back problems since i was 21 i am now 55. Not saying i know whats best for your friend but what works for me. I do one arm dumbell rows off a bench. They seem to work my upper back not my lower back. Been lifting 3 years now and for the first time last week my back started putting some pain in my arse, and down my leg. I use perfect form, and do not ever just try and load up weight an impress myself. I use supermans just raising my upper body off the floor to start with. I deadlift with dumbells fairly light weight. I also do good mornings, but keep by butt pushed out and very strict form. I will never be huge. I like to think that i am healthy though. I must say that even though i am having a little pain right now i actually have less lower back pain than since i was 21.

I always read that the stomach was a major contributor to lower back support. I know what has caused the pain this time. I am getting a little growth and got all excited and started moving up in weight too much to fast. The thing that has worked best for me is very small gains in adding weight, and doing things like when i when i move up the poundage before i keep piling it on i will add weight then advance to a 15 or 20 rep, superset er sumpin then try and go up with the poundage again. Remember perfect form, and miniscule gains. Has worked for me.

33

Okay, just as a follow up (this might take place from time to time) we went through the following exercises :

DB Bench
Chest Supported Rows
Split Squats (bodyweight)

Seated DB Shoulder Press
Lat Pull Down (Supinated grip)

I had originally wanted to do a lat pull down with pronated grip but getting the focus on correct muscle activation was difficult for her so I swapped it for the supinated grip because she was having trouble with the secondary part of the movement. This seemed to fix things and she found that movement much easier to perform and coudl then feel what I was talking about.

I had done all these movements the day before to get a quick set of notes on what to look for, what to focus on to initiate movements and I think that helped a lot. Things like telling her to imagine someone was tugging on the tip of her shoulder blade to initiate a row and so on.

At first things were very clunky but by the end her form was really quite fluid. Most importantly she didn’t feel that her lower back was arching or being used in any of it. When her back was arching I just changed things slightly and it seemed to work well.

I spoke to her this morning and she said she was sore all over, especially in her arse and hamstrings and was finding it difficult (in a muscular tiredness way) on stairs. Her lower back though was fine :slight_smile:

She had a pamphlet of chiro core strengthening exercises and we went through and checked ones that wouldn’t strain her back. She will do them after these workouts twice a week.

Warm up is a 10min brisk walk to the gym. She’ll also be walking back home.

So, so far so good. I’ll be checking in with her in a couple of weeks.

On a side note I started a weights-in-the-park group with some mates on Saturdays. My hope is that she’ll eventually be able to join this. She’s interested but too many of the movements put too much strain on the lower back. I loved it though, my lats are still fried from all the pull ups :slight_smile: Tire dragging is fucking good fun too :slight_smile:

Thanks for the help BBB and Aragorn, you’ve definitely helped me and my friend do things in a much more appropriate fashion for her situation.

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glad to help buddy. BBB put out a lot of great info, and I ended up refreshing myself as well on some of it!!

Thanks for checking back in and letting us know how it was going.

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We’re currently entering week 4 and I’ll be checking in with her this coming Saturday. I saw her and the hubby on the weekend though and it seems to be working better than I expected.

At the end of the first week she had a massage to relieve the lower back pain, though she said this was a regular occurrence and if anything thing were better. In the last two weeks she hasn’t had any work on her back and claims it’s feeling better than she can ever remember.

I usually talk to her 3-4 times a week and I have to say she hasn’t mentioned any back soreness and I’ve been checking in to see if anything was doing any damage.

Her husband said that she would complain at least once a day about her back. He said he couldn’t remember any complaints that week.

So I don’t want to jump the gun but it seems things are progressing well :slight_smile: She’s also lost a noticeable amount of weight which is good too.

She was complaining about the time taken to change between chest supported rows and the flat bench press, other than that she’s loving it.

I have been trying out a few things recently to see what plays havoc with the back and what doesn’t. I was thinking I’d like to get her to do some high rack pulls to work on glute activation. Probably above knee.

I had her doing the chest supported rows with an incline bench laying with her body in line with it. I’m thinking perhaps the bench coudl stay flat and she can support her chest laying perpendicular across teh bench. I think this may place a bit of load on the lower back. I’m hesitant to move to an incline bench press because it feels to me like that would place some stress on teh lower back.

So, so far so good. I’m just looking to change it up a little after four weeks. Keep things interesting and progressing.

Any help is, as always, much appreciated! :slight_smile:

In other news the weights in teh park is going awesome. This week I’m going to incorporate box jumps (and step ups for the wussies) and just need to find some blast straps for those that can’t do unsupported chins. It’s great fun though and we end on the tire dragging which fucks me up :slight_smile:

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I’m glad to hear of her progress. However I disagree that rack pulls (although a personal favorite exercise of mine) are good for glute activation.

If you have poor glute activation then IMO the only thing that will help is direct, unilateral glute activation work, until you have ‘greased the groove’ enough that you can do it naturally in all situations.

BBB[/quote]

I’ve been told by a few people that rack pulls aren’t the “best lift” for people with bad backs.

They never felt that fantastic once my inury…so I just stick with deficit pulls instead.

lots and lots of single leg work helps as well.

40

Doing pull throughs really helped me get my glutes to stand at attention.

Now I have a huge ass; and it ALL works.