Work Capacity Question

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

My work capacity on Bench has gone down.

I have been doing 225 for 5 reps. I initially worked up to it once a week for 2 weeks and then was doing it for about 3 weeks, twice a week. Now I find I am getting my ass kicked and can only do 3-4 sets and im grinding on the last 2 reps. If I can’t make it for 5 sets, the last set is a drop set or a double drop set.

I find this is only happening on chest exercises. I’m guessing this means I needed to either back off the volume for a week or two, or just take more rest in between the sets to complete them? I’m a little torn between the posts I read here about getting those last reps and the HTH method of not grinding.

2

Getting enough food? I doubt it is the volume. Has your rest between sets changed? if no it is not likely that.

3

Eat more

4

Depending on how your program is set up, your tris & delts might be fatigued which is going to hold back your pressing.

Also, maybe you have outgrown straight sets, and you should ramp your weights like the big boys do… :wink:

5

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Depending on how your program is set up, your tris & delts might be fatigued which is going to hold back your pressing.

Also, maybe you have outgrown straight sets, and you should ramp your weights like the big boys do… :wink:

[/quote]

^this. Post your routine. If you have increased your training, even in the smallest amount, your diet needs to follow it.

6

If it’s only happening with your chest movements and not your other movements I doubt it’s rest, general fitness, or food related. Otherwise all, or at least more of your lifts would have suffered.

I agree with the others that it might have something to do with your program, and whether you’re putting too much work on your chest/delts/tris.

7

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
If it’s only happening with your chest movements and not your other movements I doubt it’s rest, general fitness, or food related. Otherwise all, or at least more of your lifts would have suffered.

I agree with the others that it might have something to do with your program, and whether you’re putting too much work on your chest/delts/tris. [/quote]

This, though it is hard to say for sure given the relative lack of detail.

Are you keeping a training journal? My best progress has been when I’ve kept a journal. If you are keeping a journal it can help you to notice patterns and possibly any cause/effect relationships between different variables.

8

[quote]earthquake wrote:
My work capacity on Bench has gone down.

I have been doing 225 for 5 reps. I initially worked up to it once a week for 2 weeks and then was doing it for about 3 weeks, twice a week. Now I find I am getting my ass kicked and can only do 3-4 sets and im grinding on the last 2 reps. If I can’t make it for 5 sets, the last set is a drop set or a double drop set.

I find this is only happening on chest exercises. I’m guessing this means I needed to either back off the volume for a week or two, or just take more rest in between the sets to complete them? I’m a little torn between the posts I read here about getting those last reps and the HTH method of not grinding.

[/quote]

Don’t bother with the low rep/high intensity/load drop sets, you are just grinding further into the ground and for what? Are you getting more growth from it? I doubt it…

As countingbeans said, ramp up to a max weight (e.g. 3-6 rep max), research basic ramping if not sure. Don’t do it to the point of grinding, rather, just a rep shy of failure…then drop the weight by about 10%, kick out a high rep max to failure (e.g. 8-12), reduce the weight again by about 10% again, and kick out another final high rep set to failure. No need to do too many max sets, ESPECIALLY low rep sets, that will do more harm than good…and THAT is the reason why you’ve stagnated - I’m almost 100% sure :slight_smile:

9

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Don’t do it to the point of grinding, rather, just a rep shy of failure…then drop the weight by about 10%, kick out a high rep max to failure (e.g. 8-12), reduce the weight again by about 10% again, and kick out another final high rep set to failure. No need to do too many max sets, ESPECIALLY low rep sets, that will do more harm than good…and THAT is the reason why you’ve stagnated - I’m almost 100% sure :)[/quote]

So it’s best to avoid “grinding” on that 10% drop set as well? When I grind my ass usually leaves the bench and im driving with my legs, and the bar isn’t accelerating too much.

I’m guessing its cool to use this approach for each primary lift on each day but I just want to double check.

I was doing something like this:

Bar x 14-20 x 3 sets
95 x 6-8
115 x 4-6
135 x 3-4
155 x 3
175 x 3
185 x 3
215 x 1-3
225 for 5, attempting 5 sets.

I was able to handle that and get the 5 sets for a few weeks. Slowly it came to grinding I described above, then finally just being burned out. I think it became too much volume.

10

OK, first I want to make clear that one does not have to go by precise numbers.

However the flip side is that numbers can communicate the general AREA of what one is doing. And sometimes can make plain that that area is just not where to be.

If you can do 225 not only for 5, but likely for 5 sets of 5, it’s unlikely to be significantly more than 80% of your 1RM. (And if it seems to be, one could say that it “really” isn’t in terms of your muscles, but rather that you are underperforming in the performance of the single.)

So call your nominal 1RM, whether you can actually do it or not, about 280. Again, if you can’t do it, still it’s a useful figure for evaluating how other loads relate with your strength.

So what is this ramping up from 95 lb at 20 lb increments?

It’s inching your way up very gradually from about 34% 1RM!!!

This is wasted effort and wasted time.

Try: Bar x 14-20, probably for 1 or 2 sets. It seems unlikely you need 3, but if that is your judgment at the time then do it.

95x5

135x1-3

165x1

195, 205, 215, 225 for 5

225 for maximum good reps.

If you multiply the weights used by the reps, you’ll be shocked how much tonnage you were putting into the above “warmup,” that was doing nothing but draining recovery ability. The weights were relatively low, but all the warmup reps add up to quite a bit. I don’t want to figure the value now, but I expect the above protocol will save you a tonnage (weight x reps) similar to perhaps three work sets, and almost certainly at least two.

11

[quote]earthquake wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Don’t do it to the point of grinding, rather, just a rep shy of failure…then drop the weight by about 10%, kick out a high rep max to failure (e.g. 8-12), reduce the weight again by about 10% again, and kick out another final high rep set to failure. No need to do too many max sets, ESPECIALLY low rep sets, that will do more harm than good…and THAT is the reason why you’ve stagnated - I’m almost 100% sure :)[/quote]

So it’s best to avoid “grinding” on that 10% drop set as well? When I grind my ass usually leaves the bench and im driving with my legs, and the bar isn’t accelerating too much.

I’m guessing its cool to use this approach for each primary lift on each day but I just want to double check.

I was doing something like this:

Bar x 14-20 x 3 sets
95 x 6-8
115 x 4-6
135 x 3-4
155 x 3
175 x 3
185 x 3
215 x 1-3
225 for 5, attempting 5 sets.

I was able to handle that and get the 5 sets for a few weeks. Slowly it came to grinding I described above, then finally just being burned out. I think it became too much volume.
[/quote]

What Bill Roberts said. You only need to ramp up from about 60% of your 1RM (the other stuff is just draining fluff). Warmup to your 60% RM and then ramp up to just ONE max low rep set (e.g. 3-6 reps). What you described isn’t really ramping because you’re doing 5 straight sets (last sets with the same load).

Once ramped up (your system is fully “awake”) you finish off with some high rep sets. Yes, do go to failure/near on the higher rep sets. When you do lots of low rep sets to near failure, it is far more for the nervous system to deal with than the higher reps. And what you’ll find is that because the nervous system is fully prepared/“amped” from ramping (just working up to a low volume max…not exhausting the body) THEN you can manage more load in the higher rep range.

When people go on about intensity often they mean intensiveness (not load). Going to failure on 12 rep sets is far easier for the body to bounce back from than going to failure on 5 rep max sets. So sure, be intensive on the higher reps and don’t worry about grinding (although it will be harder to grind because of lactic acid), but moderate this when it comes to low reps.

12

Seeing this again, for clarity, where I wrote:

[quote]195, 205, 215, 225 for 5

225 for maximum good reps. [/quote]

the concept there is that I was matching up with the general 5-sets-of-5 concept and guessing that likely the fourth set with 225 for 5 wouldn’t have you feeling thoroughly worked, as you are presently doing multiple sets of 5 with 225.

Another set with 225 might well get you 6 or 7 which is still good for bb’ing of course.

Or if it proved to be 2 final sets of 5 with the second one having you thoroughly worked while the first alone didn’t quite accomplish that, very good also.

At some later time with different weights, it might well happen that the 4th set had you feeling done. If so, I’m not saying above that a 5th set with the same weight must be done again.

Nor am I saying the 5th set must be at the same weight as the 4th. If you feel up to aiming for 235 for 5 on the final, then go for it.

In other words my above post was intended to communicate ideas rather than to constitute a be-all, end-all formula.

13

So its okay if i do that for each primary exercise on each day of the week?
Like take that similar approach with a DL or Squat, Row, or Pull-Up whatever First exercise I choose?

Sorry for the dumb questions guys and thanks for all the help. I feel like I’ve come a long way in a year but I still don’t have shit to show for it.

14

Not sure I understood the first part of your question - “each day”…

What to do is, like you said - ramp on main lifts, then on secondary ones (like direct arm training) that you do in the same session as the big lifts, just do “normal” sets, e.g. two to three 6-12RM sets per exercise. No need to ramp on them because you’ve already “woken up” most of your system.

What’s your split btw?

15

Chest & Tri (Switching it from Biceps)
Legs & Delts (Medial head only)
Back & Biceps (and some exteran rotators/rear delt)
Rest

So lets say I did

Barbell Flat
DB Incline
Dip
Arms

Would I only do the ramp for the barbell flat? and just do something like 10, 8 8, or 8 , 8, 6 for the chest exercises after that and the direct arm work?

For each day I meant my back day, or my leg day. Since back is a bit more complex than chest I wondered if I would have to do this ramp on different lifts in the same day.

16

[quote]earthquake wrote:
Chest & Tri (Switching it from Biceps)
Legs & Delts (Medial head only)
Back & Biceps (and some exteran rotators/rear delt)
Rest

So lets say I did

Barbell Flat
DB Incline
Dip
Arms

Would I only do the ramp for the barbell flat? and just do something like 10, 8 8, or 8 , 8, 6 for the chest exercises after that and the direct arm work?

For each day I meant my back day, or my leg day. Since back is a bit more complex than chest I wondered if I would have to do this ramp on different lifts in the same day.[/quote]

I’d ramp on Barbell flat + dips, then normal for the rest. Your heaviest exercises need the ramping.

Although personally, I don’t like to do more than 2 big pushing/pulling movements in a session…if I did dips then I would maybe cycle them with flat press (e.g. chest workout 1 - dips and incline, chest workout 2 - flat press and incline…). In my opinion, you need to get the most out of an exercise before you move on.