[quote]ephrem wrote:
Religious beliefs become part of a person’s selfesteem and identity. When something threatens the belief, the believer feels personally attacked and will defend the belief as he’d defend himself against attack.
Combined with an almost religious belief in “the American Dream” and you have a recipe for disaster.
2012 will not be the end of civilisation but it’s going to be an interesting year nonetheless![/quote]
What’s driving this anti-religious hate filled vomit from you? I thought we got past this? I thought you are better than this? You are better than this.
No matter how much people want to make it that, this is not a “religious” issue. Is it a life or not? Is it ok to take a life? That’s the only issue.[/quote]
Fact is pat, the anti-abortion movement is a predominantly religious one.
[/quote]
Whether it is or it isn’t is irrelevant, it’s about killing humans. Atheists apparently don’t get their nose to out of joint about it unless they can use it as a political football to punt with. “Oh war! It kills people and you just don’t care!!!”
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Besides morality =/= religion. You can have morality without religion, you know. [/quote]
Could you share a ‘moral’ precept with me? I want to dissect it… Or, at least do mathematics with it. Thanks.
[/quote]
If you found out tomorrow with absolute certainty there was no god do you think you would start raping and murdering people?[/quote]
It’s sad that such a simple question led to three pages of evading the issue.
A belief in god might prevent someone from raping and/or murdering someone else, but that same belief might also condone or incite the rape and/or murder of someone else.
Essentially, religious beliefs do very little to prevent unwanted actions but are readily used to justify negativity.
Just look at how easily religious men here on PWI are willing to demote women to a second tier existence based on religious beliefs. They’d even vote for other men who pledged to abolish abortion and make it harder for women to acces birth control.
A person is able to justify any behaviour no matter if he’s an atheist or believer, but the absence of religious morality does not make it easier to behave badly just like the belief in religious morality does not prevent a believer from behaving badly.
If the desire is strong enough a person will act on it regardless.[/quote]
Here’s the biggest fact of all. A theist, if he were to fallaciously believe there is no God, wouldn’t have to change one iota of his behavior to line up with that ideology. If, however, believing in God would seemingly force you to change your behavior, you must be doing something wrong in the first place.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Religious beliefs become part of a person’s selfesteem and identity. When something threatens the belief, the believer feels personally attacked and will defend the belief as he’d defend himself against attack.
Combined with an almost religious belief in “the American Dream” and you have a recipe for disaster.
2012 will not be the end of civilisation but it’s going to be an interesting year nonetheless![/quote]
What’s driving this anti-religious hate filled vomit from you? I thought we got past this? I thought you are better than this? You are better than this.
No matter how much people want to make it that, this is not a “religious” issue. Is it a life or not? Is it ok to take a life? That’s the only issue.[/quote]
Fact is pat, the anti-abortion movement is a predominantly religious one.
[/quote]
Whether it is or it isn’t is irrelevant, it’s about killing humans. Atheists apparently don’t get their nose to out of joint about it unless they can use it as a political football to punt with. “Oh war! It kills people and you just don’t care!!!”
It’s never a bad thing to try to do what’s right.[/quote]
You guys are claiming to be anti-abortion, going as far as calling it a holocaust. Yet you guys have no problems holding down proven methods of preventing abortion - contraceptive use and sex health education.
If you really cared about stopping abortion why would you hold these thins down?
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Besides morality =/= religion. You can have morality without religion, you know. [/quote]
Could you share a ‘moral’ precept with me? I want to dissect it… Or, at least do mathematics with it. Thanks.
[/quote]
If you found out tomorrow with absolute certainty there was no god do you think you would start raping and murdering people?[/quote]
It’s sad that such a simple question led to three pages of evading the issue.
A belief in god might prevent someone from raping and/or murdering someone else, but that same belief might also condone or incite the rape and/or murder of someone else.
Essentially, religious beliefs do very little to prevent unwanted actions but are readily used to justify negativity.
Just look at how easily religious men here on PWI are willing to demote women to a second tier existence based on religious beliefs. They’d even vote for other men who pledged to abolish abortion and make it harder for women to acces birth control.
A person is able to justify any behaviour no matter if he’s an atheist or believer, but the absence of religious morality does not make it easier to behave badly just like the belief in religious morality does not prevent a believer from behaving badly.
If the desire is strong enough a person will act on it regardless.[/quote]
Here’s the biggest fact of all. A theist, if he were to fallaciously believe there is no God, wouldn’t have to change one iota of his behavior to line up with that ideology. If, however, believing in God would seemingly force you to change your behavior, you must be doing something wrong in the first place. [/quote]
Of course you would. How could you continue to justify believing homosexual acts are immoral?
No, and no. I’m a celibate single male. Yes, I am fully celibate. But gee therajraj, I didn’t realize you were interested. Wait, r u female?![/quote]
I’m not insulting you AT ALL. Your celibacy is a personal choice I respect. The reason I ask is if you were, is how do you go about maintaining a relationship with a woman when you’re against contraception.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Wow Eph, you are frothing at the mouth more than usual. What’s up, bub? Why are you taking the ardency of your faith to the fever pitch?
You were always strident but good grief, man…[/quote]
He’s angry. He tried to play moral spokesperson, forgetting that he was pro-abort. I reminded him, he went to pieces.
[/quote]
What’s so ironic is that he is perfectly illustrative of my oft repeated claim that there aint no more “religious” person on the face of the earth than the fire-breathing atheist evangelist. They get very intense.
They very much want to promote their creed and the lifestyle that goes with it.[/quote]
“Don’t stick your religion in places where it does not belong”
That’s easy enough isn’t it?
It’s you lovely boys who feel the need to interfere with other’s lives, not me.
[/quote]
The reason they call atheism a religion is so the can say the government’s preferred religion is atheism and they are being discriminated against.
[/quote]
Well, you guys do usually favor forcing us to subsidize contraception and abortion in some way.
[/quote]
Well, you guys do usually favor forcing us to pray in school.[/quote]
You force us to pay for them, we try to make ourselves at home.
Tell me you don’t live your life based on slogans?
That slogan and you believing it is proof positive you don’t know shit about relgions and can’t be bothered to find out the actual, real truth cause it might shake your little atheistic tree.
For being an atheist you sure like to talk about, faith, religion and God an awful lot?? I suspect it bothers at some level. Or you are proselytizing, which is a weird thing for an absence of belief to do, which means it isn’t an absence at all.
No, and no. I’m a celibate single male. Yes, I am fully celibate. But gee therajraj, I didn’t realize you were interested. Wait, r u female?![/quote]
I’m not insulting you AT ALL. Your celibacy is a personal choice I respect. The reason I ask is if you were, is how do you go about maintaining a relationship with a woman when you’re against contraception.[/quote]
We would be married. She’d be against contraception, too.
No, and no. I’m a celibate single male. Yes, I am fully celibate. But gee therajraj, I didn’t realize you were interested. Wait, r u female?![/quote]
I’m not insulting you AT ALL. Your celibacy is a personal choice I respect. The reason I ask is if you were, is how do you go about maintaining a relationship with a woman when you’re against contraception.[/quote]
We would be married. She’d be against contraception, too. [/quote]
Are you saying you would only have vaginal sex with your wife for the purpose of procreation?
You guys are claiming to be anti-abortion, going as far as calling it a holocaust. Yet you guys have no problems holding down proven methods of preventing abortion - contraceptive use and sex health education.
If you really cared about stopping abortion why would you hold these thins down?[/quote]
You guys? Who said anything about that. I am interested in ending abortion, period… You introducing a red herring here. Have you ever seen anybody at an abortion rally holding up a sign with a rubber and a slash through it or anything of the like? I sure as hell haven’t. The fact that abortion for the sake of contraception is particularly sick, not withstanding.
Here’s the biggest fact of all. A theist, if he were to fallaciously believe there is no God, wouldn’t have to change one iota of his behavior to line up with that ideology. If, however, believing in God would seemingly force you to change your behavior, you must be doing something wrong in the first place.
Of course you would. How could you continue to justify believing homosexual acts are immoral?[/quote]
Whether or not one would change their behavior is not relevant, the fact is, one would not have to. Second, there’s plenty of atheists against homosexuality, so it’s not automatic one would necessarily change their mind about that topic.
You guys are claiming to be anti-abortion, going as far as calling it a holocaust. Yet you guys have no problems holding down proven methods of preventing abortion - contraceptive use and sex health education.
If you really cared about stopping abortion why would you hold these thins down?[/quote]
You guys? Who said anything about that. I am interested in ending abortion, period… You introducing a red herring here. Have you ever seen anybody at an abortion rally holding up a sign with a rubber and a slash through it or anything of the like? I sure as hell haven’t. The fact that abortion for the sake of contraception is particularly sick, not withstanding. [/quote]
Several Christians hold the position of teaching safe sex education to children as wrong and contraception use as immoral while being pro-life.
If you’re interested in ending abortion by extension you would also be in favour of lowering abortion rates. It’s not a red herring, it’s true. WHy would you prevent safe sex education and condemn condom use if you want to stop abortion period?
It’s sad that such a simple question led to three pages of evading the issue.
A belief in god might prevent someone from raping and/or murdering someone else, but that same belief might also condone or incite the rape and/or murder of someone else.
Essentially, religious beliefs do very little to prevent unwanted actions but are readily used to justify negativity.
Just look at how easily religious men here on PWI are willing to demote women to a second tier existence based on religious beliefs. They’d even vote for other men who pledged to abolish abortion and make it harder for women to acces birth control.
A person is able to justify any behaviour no matter if he’s an atheist or believer, but the absence of religious morality does not make it easier to behave badly just like the belief in religious morality does not prevent a believer from behaving badly.
If the desire is strong enough a person will act on it regardless.[/quote]
Here’s the biggest fact of all. A theist, if he were to fallaciously believe there is no God, wouldn’t have to change one iota of his behavior to line up with that ideology. If, however, believing in God would seemingly force you to change your behavior, you must be doing something wrong in the first place. [/quote]
That’s too easy pat. If I suddenly found faith ofcourse I’ll have to make changes in my behaviour. I’d have to go to church for one. Start reading the bible and even pray.
The fact that I’m not doing those things now is hardly “wrong”, but I wouldn’t act differently from how I’m behaving now, I don’t think.
Tell me you don’t live your life based on slogans?
That slogan and you believing it is proof positive you don’t know shit about relgions and can’t be bothered to find out the actual, real truth cause it might shake your little atheistic tree.
For being an atheist you sure like to talk about, faith, religion and God an awful lot?? I suspect it bothers at some level. Or you are proselytizing, which is a weird thing for an absence of belief to do, which means it isn’t an absence at all. [/quote]
No, well, you know, like, I actually enjoy our conversations pat. Honest to God.