Drat.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Religious beliefs become part of a person’s selfesteem and identity. When something threatens the belief, the believer feels personally attacked and will defend the belief as he’d defend himself against attack.
Combined with an almost religious belief in “the American Dream” and you have a recipe for disaster.
2012 will not be the end of civilisation but it’s going to be an interesting year nonetheless![/quote]
What’s driving this anti-religious hate filled vomit from you? I thought we got past this? I thought you are better than this? You are better than this.
No matter how much people want to make it that, this is not a “religious” issue. Is it a life or not? Is it ok to take a life? That’s the only issue.[/quote]
Fact is pat, the anti-abortion movement is a predominantly religious one.
An interesting read, if you haven’t seen it before.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Your country was founded on the corpses of the native americans, built with the blood and sweat of african slaves and asian migrants. Your ancestors destroyed the bison, wolf and bear and raped the land’s recources.
In the process the USA became incredibly wealthy and powerful but it did so not based on christian values, but by virtue of greed.
[/quote]
Really? Says you? Says Chomsky? Who are you? What are you doing in the Netherlands? Are you Dutch? What are you doing on the continent? What are you doing in Western Europe? What did your forefathers do in the World Wars? Who the fuck are you?[/quote]
Raise your hand if you don’t live on concurred land…[/quote]
SexMachine is the king of misdirection. They have the same problem in Australia, and to a lesser extent in Canada.
The USA is young enough to still be affected by its inception, to be remembered for it.
Nothing I said was untrue, but the ease with which you are ready to revise your history in favor of a myth is unsettling.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Besides morality =/= religion. You can have morality without religion, you know. [/quote]
Could you share a ‘moral’ precept with me? I want to dissect it… Or, at least do mathematics with it. Thanks.
[/quote]
If you found out tomorrow with absolute certainty there was no god do you think you would start raping and murdering people?[/quote]
It’s sad that such a simple question led to three pages of evading the issue.
A belief in god might prevent someone from raping and/or murdering someone else, but that same belief might also condone or incite the rape and/or murder of someone else.
Essentially, religious beliefs do very little to prevent unwanted actions but are readily used to justify negativity.
Just look at how easily religious men here on PWI are willing to demote women to a second tier existence based on religious beliefs. They’d even vote for other men who pledged to abolish abortion and make it harder for women to acces birth control.
A person is able to justify any behaviour no matter if he’s an atheist or believer, but the absence of religious morality does not make it easier to behave badly just like the belief in religious morality does not prevent a believer from behaving badly.
If the desire is strong enough a person will act on it regardless.
[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
Come on now, it’s not a hard question, no matter how many evasion games you play.[/quote]If you knew you didn’t exist would you be a murderer and/or rapist? Come on now, it’s not a hard question, no matter how many evasion games you play.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
Come on now, it’s not a hard question, no matter how many evasion games you play.[/quote]If you knew you didn’t exist would you be a murderer and/or rapist? Come on now, it’s not a hard question, no matter how many evasion games you play.[/quote]
I know I don’t exist in any solid form aside from the physical one, and once the physical form stops functioning I will cease to exist.
That knowledge does not allow me to rape and murder at will. I don’t rape and murder because I don’t want to.
If you don’t want to rape and murder, then that’s enough. No need for divine judgment or the fear of hell.
If you do want to rape and murder no amount of religious belief will stop you from doing so. In fact, it’s much more likely that you’d justify your raping and murdering through your religious beliefs.
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< I know I don’t exist in any solid form aside from the physical one, and once the physical form stops functioning I will cease to exist. >>>[/quote]That sounded like a postulation of certainty. I thought you weren’t allowed to have those? HOW do you “know” this? Or anything else for that matter?[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< That knowledge does not allow me to rape and murder at will. I don’t rape and murder because I don’t want to. >>>[/quote]The restraining grace of the God you deny and who’s image you are, and which image you are testifying to as you type these posts is why you don’t rape and murder. You ARE every unthinkable form and extreme of horrific wretched evil incarnate if left to yourself and so am I.[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< If you don’t want to rape and murder, then that’s enough. >>>[/quote] What if you do?[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< No need for divine judgment or the fear of hell. >>>[/quote]Oh, but there is. The perfectly pure holiness and justice of the most high God demands it. However. I have no fear of hell. I serve Him because I love Him. That is both His gift to me and the source of all in me that is acceptable to Him.[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< If you do want to rape and murder no amount of religious belief will stop you from doing so. >>>[/quote]Looky there we agree. No amount of religious belief will. That’s why Catholicism is a dead rotting corpse. The power of the blood and resurrection of the only begotten Son of God wherein men are raised from death in sin to life in Him will and does though. >>>[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< In fact, it’s much more likely that you’d justify your raping and murdering through your religious beliefs.[/quote]We agree again. I don’t have religious beliefs. I have by faith, which is also His gift, the living God in residence in my heart. The difference between you and I is not you and I. I am just as helpless as you are.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Just look at how easily religious men here on PWI are willing to demote women to a second tier existence based on religious beliefs. They’d even vote for other men who pledged to abolish abortion and make it harder for women to acces birth control.[/quote]
See how morally bankrupt you are, even with doubt? And you do have doubt about the non-existence of God, as you don’t posses absolute certainty. You’re so morally bankrupt you actually tried spinning the pro-life position as the monstrous one. You support a holocaust of human lives year in, and year out, yet try to make your opposition out to be wrong. Not easy having to give up the moral position, I suppose. Not that I would know to any degree you’ve experienced. I’ve never supported the deliberate killing of absolutely innocent human lives, like you.
Like, pro-abortionists…
Personal investigation and observation led me to conclude this, and without any evidence to the contrary my conclusion leaves so little doubt in my mind I’m confident that this is the truth.
Sigh
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Just look at how easily religious men here on PWI are willing to demote women to a second tier existence based on religious beliefs. They’d even vote for other men who pledged to abolish abortion and make it harder for women to acces birth control.[/quote]
See how morally bankrupt you are, even with doubt? And you do have doubt about the non-existence of God, as you don’t posses absolute certainty. You’re so morally bankrupt you actually tried spinning the pro-life position as the monstrous one. You support a holocaust of human lives year in, and year out, yet try to make your opposition out to be wrong. Not easy having to give up the moral position, I suppose. Not that I would know to any degree you’ve experienced. I’ve never supported the deliberate killing of absolutely innocent human lives, like you.
Like, pro-abortionists…
[/quote]
Sloth, you amuse me.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Personal investigation and observation led me to conclude this, and without any evidence to the contrary my conclusion leaves so little doubt in my mind I’m confident that this is the truth. >>>[/quote]Sigh. Investigate he says =] Have to wait til later.
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< Sloth, you amuse me. >>>[/quote]That’s an answer?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Personal investigation and observation led me to conclude this, and without any evidence to the contrary my conclusion leaves so little doubt in my mind I’m confident that this is the truth. >>>[/quote]Sigh. Investigate he says =] Have to wait til later.
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< Sloth, you amuse me. >>>[/quote]That’s an answer?
[/quote]
For Sloth it’s a good enough answer. See ya later!
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Just look at how easily religious men here on PWI are willing to demote women to a second tier existence based on religious beliefs. They’d even vote for other men who pledged to abolish abortion and make it harder for women to acces birth control.[/quote]
See how morally bankrupt you are, even with doubt? And you do have doubt about the non-existence of God, as you don’t posses absolute certainty. You’re so morally bankrupt you actually tried spinning the pro-life position as the monstrous one. You support a holocaust of human lives year in, and year out, yet try to make your opposition out to be wrong. Not easy having to give up the moral position, I suppose. Not that I would know to any degree you’ve experienced. I’ve never supported the deliberate killing of absolutely innocent human lives, like you.
Like, pro-abortionists…
[/quote]
Sloth, you amuse me.
[/quote]
Do the psychedelics dull the pain of supporting the deliberate killing of an untold number of human lives year in and year out. Is that why you’re giddy?
When you tried to portray yourself as equally possessing of morality, while being pro-abort, it wasn’t amusing. I’m just not macabre enough to find it funny.
[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< See ya later![/quote]Toodle-oo
Pro-abortionists auto-lose acting as representatives for moral atheism. You’re automatically dismissed as to having anything useful to say on the subject. Just to save you folks some time. Come back when you don’t support the deliberate killings of innocents.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sloth, you amuse me.
[/quote]
Do the psychedelics dull the pain of supporting the deliberate killing of an untold number of human lives year in and year out. Is that why you’re giddy?
When you tried to portray yourself as equally possessing of morality, while being pro-abort, it wasn’t amusing. I’m just not macabre enough to find it funny.[/quote]
You truly are a saint, aren’t you? Luckily, all those future women who can’t have a safe abortion and are forced to carry a child from rape to fullterm can come to you and leave their children in your safe hands.
Also, praise you for being prepared to pay a large amount of taxes to will go towards child protective service… wait,
A picture is easier for you to understand:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
You truly are a saint, aren’t you? Luckily, all those future women who can’t have a safe abortion and are forced to carry a child from rape…
[/quote]
I’d sign a bill to outlaw all abortion except for in instances of rape. Would you join me?
Did I need to ask?