My use goes back to the basic observation that individuals are trying to thrive and pass on their genes.[/quote]
It’s an observation, yes. But that’s all it is. Individuals can also contracept (like the secular west). And ‘thriving’ covers a lot of ground. Those are also observations.
Risk vs. Reward. Many don’t even have ‘offspring’ these days. The wealthy man is almost certainly not going to be helped out by the homeless at the soup kitchen. Nor is the man who rushes into a river to pull a grandmother from a submerging vehicle.
[/quote]
Here’s a bit of what I want to tell you:
I know.
[/quote]
What does it say? [/quote]
You didn’t read it?
[/quote]
I did. I want to know what you think it says.
[/quote]
That human beings are capable of empathy and violence. Which we already knew.[/quote]
You folks are transparent. You keep arguing with me, when you could simply ask a more grounded hypothetical. But why haven’t you? I even started it out for you. Because you want to erase a confounding variable. THAT I CAN’T KNOW THERE WAS NO GOD. In short, you wanted to remove doubt. It was obvious from the start. Keep asking, you’re not going to get a different reply.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You folks are transparent. You keep arguing with me, when you could simply ask a more grounded hypothetical. But why haven’t you? I even started it out for you. Because you want to erase a confounding variable. THAT I CAN’T KNOW THERE WAS NO GOD. In short, you wanted to remove doubt. It was obvious from the start. Keep asking, you’re not going to get a different reply. [/quote]
How you came to know there is no God in this hypothetical universe is irrelevant. The relevant part is the second half, the first is something you are taking for granted as per a normal hypothetical question. In short, you want to keep dodging a question that makes you uncomfortable. It was obvious from the start. Keep dodging, you’re not going to get a different question.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
EDIT: <If you had super powers, then…> is the part you take for granted, not ask how you came by said powers. Now stop dodging.
See, what they don’t want to admit is that even atheist behavior is likely colored by ‘what if’ in many circumstances. At higher or lower level. Consciously or subconsciously. Atheism without faith is, “I don’t believe in a god.” Or, in another way, “I find it unlikely such a being exists.” Not, “I KNOW (with absolute certainty) that there is no god.” That’s why you don’t want to ask the obvious hypothetical, because it leaves me doubt.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You folks are transparent. You keep arguing with me, when you could simply ask a more grounded hypothetical. But why haven’t you? I even started it out for you. Because you want to erase a confounding variable. THAT I CAN’T KNOW THERE WAS NO GOD. In short, you wanted to remove doubt. It was obvious from the start. Keep asking, you’re not going to get a different reply. [/quote]
How you came to know there is no God in this hypothetical universe is irrelevant. The relevant part is the second half, the first is something you are taking for granted as per a normal hypothetical question. In short, you want to keep dodging a question that makes you uncomfortable. It was obvious from the start. Keep dodging, you’re not going to get a different question.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
EDIT: <If you had super powers, then…> is the part you take for granted, not ask how you came by said powers. Now stop dodging.[/quote]
I can imagine flying and shooting heat beams. I can’t imagine being omnipresent and omniscient in a hypothetical where I don’t believe in the existence of an omniscient and omnipresent being.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You folks are transparent. You keep arguing with me, when you could simply ask a more grounded hypothetical. But why haven’t you? I even started it out for you. Because you want to erase a confounding variable. THAT I CAN’T KNOW THERE WAS NO GOD. In short, you wanted to remove doubt. It was obvious from the start. Keep asking, you’re not going to get a different reply. [/quote]
How you came to know there is no God in this hypothetical universe is irrelevant. The relevant part is the second half, the first is something you are taking for granted as per a normal hypothetical question. In short, you want to keep dodging a question that makes you uncomfortable. It was obvious from the start. Keep dodging, you’re not going to get a different question.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
EDIT: <If you had super powers, then…> is the part you take for granted, not ask how you came by said powers. Now stop dodging.[/quote]
I can imagine flying and shooting heat beams. I can’t imagine being omnipresent and omniscient in a hypothetical where I don’t believe in the existence of an omniscient and omnipresent being.[/quote]
You’re not omnipresent and omniscient in this hypothetical. All you have extra in this hypothetical is the knowledge that there is no God. How you came about this knowledge is irrelevant. What is relevant is how you would behave with such knowledge.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You folks are transparent. You keep arguing with me, when you could simply ask a more grounded hypothetical. But why haven’t you? I even started it out for you. Because you want to erase a confounding variable. THAT I CAN’T KNOW THERE WAS NO GOD. In short, you wanted to remove doubt. It was obvious from the start. Keep asking, you’re not going to get a different reply. [/quote]
How you came to know there is no God in this hypothetical universe is irrelevant. The relevant part is the second half, the first is something you are taking for granted as per a normal hypothetical question. In short, you want to keep dodging a question that makes you uncomfortable. It was obvious from the start. Keep dodging, you’re not going to get a different question.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
EDIT: <If you had super powers, then…> is the part you take for granted, not ask how you came by said powers. Now stop dodging.[/quote]
If you didn’t have a brain, what would you think about the situation?
You’re not omnipresent and omniscient in this hypothetical. [/quote]
Then I wouldn’t know any such thing.[/quote]
The knowledge is the part you are taking for granted. You are now playing this around in circles. If you don’t provide an answer, then I will assume one for you.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You folks are transparent. You keep arguing with me, when you could simply ask a more grounded hypothetical. But why haven’t you? I even started it out for you. Because you want to erase a confounding variable. THAT I CAN’T KNOW THERE WAS NO GOD. In short, you wanted to remove doubt. It was obvious from the start. Keep asking, you’re not going to get a different reply. [/quote]
How you came to know there is no God in this hypothetical universe is irrelevant. The relevant part is the second half, the first is something you are taking for granted as per a normal hypothetical question. In short, you want to keep dodging a question that makes you uncomfortable. It was obvious from the start. Keep dodging, you’re not going to get a different question.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
EDIT: <If you had super powers, then…> is the part you take for granted, not ask how you came by said powers. Now stop dodging.[/quote]
If you didn’t have a brain, what would you think about the situation?
[/quote]
Nothing, as I would be dead. Still irrelevant to the question posed to you.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
The knowledge is the part you are taking for granted.[/quote]
No, I’m not. The knowledge part is the most revealing part of the question. It assumes I’m now omniscient and omniprsent. That I can have absolute certainty about things science can’t even falsify. You make a god of me. Or that some being with with those qualities has imparted such knowledge to me. But that would be a paradox.
Please do provide one for me. It would carry as much weight as my own. That is, none.
“If you were never born in this point of time…But had been born a rich white man in the deep south, before the civil war, would you have owned slaves?!”
Oh, no way, not me!
A bad hypothetical doesn’t get answered. Not truthfully or meaningfully.
The knowledge is the part you are taking for granted.[/quote]
No, I’m not. The knowledge part is the most revealing part of the question. It assumes I’m now omniscient and omniprsent. That I can have absolute certainty about things science can’t even falsify. You make a god of me. Or that some being with with those qualities has imparted such knowledge to me. But that would be a paradox.
Please do provide one for me. It would carry as much weight as my own.[/quote]
I’m done for today. Here is the question again before I leave.
If you knew there was no God, would you be a murderer and/or rapist?
If you answer, I will have a look tomorrow. If not, I will have to assume (and everyone else reading this thread) you are one of those “liberal” Christians who like to pay lip service to his church, but has no real convictions of his own. Even Tirib would probably admit that without his God influencing him, he would be one of the worst sinners imaginable.
If you would give some form of answer, even a simple “I don’t know”, then I could give you some credit. But no, you keep up the dodging act. The more I think about it, the more I realize your dodging of a simple question speaks more than any answer you give ever could.
If you would give some form of answer, even a simple “I don’t know”[/quote]
This is funny. I gave you better than a simple I don’t know. I explained why I didn’t/couldn’t know. No sir, you were fishing for the impossible, a yes or no.
[quote]You: If there were no God, would you murder and/or rape on a whim?
It’s as simple as answering yes or no[/quote]
[quote] Me to you: I can’t ‘find out’ that there was no God. Impossible. There is no way to frame the question, or consider the question, without considering the impossible. So my actions may or not still be constrained by the possibility of a God in my thoughts (doubt, 'better safe than sorry), by the nurture of a society/culture that is STILL influenced by religious thought, and by risk vs. reward.[/quote]"
I.e., I (Me, a human being unable to ‘know’ there is no God) can’t consider the impossibility of knowing there isn’t a god, much less what I would do with that knowledge.
In fact, my very first answer said exactly that much to therajraj (who asked the question).
I can’t event contemplate knowing the impossible hypothetical, much less what I would do with impossible knowledge.
When I reposed the question more realistically, I still said (in short) I don’t know. Because I couldn’t contemplate being a me that wasn’t me! Look up at the slavery post (posted before your last post). If I can’t answer that, I damn sure can’t answer an impossible hypothetical. Absolute knowledge (i.e. zero doubt). Well, not with a yes or no.
[quote]Therajraj: That’s how many hypotheticals work though.
If I asked you would you fight crime if you developed super powers similar to superman would you give this same cop out answer?
It doesn’t matter How you got these powers, it’s a hypothetical.
Me: I can imagine super powers (to a degree). I can’t imagine knowing with absolute uncertainty that a God doesn’t exist. But please, ask the question properly. I’ve been dying to answer it.[/quote]
You weren’t looking for an ‘I don’t know.’ Don’t even try that.