Women Only Gym at Harvard

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/ap_on_re_us/harvard_women_s_hours
[i]

Harvard tries women-only gym hours By MARK PRATT, Associated Press Writer
Tue Mar 4, 6:40 PM ET

In a test of Harvard’s famed open-mindedness, the university has banned men from one of its gyms for a few hours a week to accommodate Muslim women who say it offends their sense of modesty to exercise in front of the opposite sex.

The policy is already unpopular with many on campus, including some women who consider it sexist.

“I think that it’s incorrect in a college setting to institute a policy in which half of the campus gets wronged or denied a resource that’s supposed to be for everyone,” said student Lucy Caldwell, who also wrote a column in The Harvard Crimson newspaper critical of the new hours.

Student Ola Aljawhary, who is Muslim and works out elsewhere on campus but is not one of the women who requested the change, rejected that argument.

“The majority should be willing to compromise,” she said. “I think that’s just basic courtesy. We must show tolerance and respect for all others.”

The trial policy went into effect Feb. 4, about a month after a group of six Muslim women, with the support of the Harvard College Women’s Center, asked the university for the special hours, spokesman Robert Mitchell said.

“We get special requests from religious groups all the time and we try to honor them whenever possible,” he said, noting that the school has designated spaces for Muslim and Hindu students to pray.

No men are allowed in the gym between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m. on Mondays, and between 8 a.m. and 10 a.m on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Even the staff during those times is all women.

The special hours allow the Muslim women, who adhere to traditional dress codes by covering their hair and most of their skin while in public, to dress more appropriately for exercising, said Susan Marine, director of the women’s center.

“It’s a pretty big breach of their moral and religious code for a man to see them with their hair uncovered and it’s just not possible for them to be in a mixed environment,” she said.

When student Kareem Shuman showed up to work out at the gym on Monday, he was turned away but didn’t mind.

“Knowing it was requested by women of my faith �?? it’s very understandable to me,” said Shuman, 21, who figured he’d just come back later for his workout.

Other men find the new hours inconvenient. Nick Wells, a junior who wrote an opinion piece in the Crimson criticizing the policy, suggested setting aside one room for women.

“It’s not that I am opposed to the idea of helping people in religious groups or women in general, but I just think Harvard is not being fair to people like me who live (near the gym),” Wells said in an interview.

The policy only applies to one gym, a facility mainly used for intramurals. Because of its location at the edge of campus, it is the university’s least used gym, Mitchell said.

The women-only hours are of minimal inconvenience because they are just six out of the 70 hours a week the gym is open, Marine said.

“Harvard has a moral and ethical responsibility to make sure our students can stay healthy,” she said.

An Associated Press reporter who went to the gym Monday did not see any Muslim women entering. Efforts to reach some of the women who requested the policy through the Women’s Center were unsuccessful.

The policy will be reviewed at the end of the semester, Mitchell said.

Kent Blumenthal, executive director of the National Intramural-Recreational Sports Association, which has 660 member colleges and universities nationwide, said he could not think of any other institution with a similar policy.

“It seems in some ways contrary to the purpose of campus recreational programs, which is all about access,” he said.

Harvard’s policy is no different from commercial gyms that cater partially or even exclusively to women, said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations.

“The Muslim bashers portray it as the world coming to end, but if women have a couple hours a week to work out in private, I don’t see it as a major issue,” he said.

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There is something very, very wrong with this. If this were a Christian group of women you can be damned sure Harvard would not accommodate them. The western lefts accommodations of extremely conservative Muslims is very puzzling to me.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The western lefts accommodations of extremely conservative Muslims is very puzzling to me. [/quote]

I heard stupid things from you, but this one tops 'em all!

Harvard is the embodiment of elitism. In fact, it is easily be described as the bastion of a distinctly Protestant elite. It imposed quotas on Jews, and persecuted homosexuals through a secret student court. It is one of the largest investor in the American armament industry, and has censored critics of the war on Iraq (I had lunch with a Harvard professor who had to immigrate to Sweden because of the pressure from the board). The university openly accepted a 20 million dollars donation from Wahabism strongest supporters and exporters (the Al-Sauds!. It also serves as Alan Dershowitz’s podium.

And you call that “left”? Get a friggin’ clue!

A few hours a week?

In the least used gym?

Where´s the problem?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The western lefts accommodations of extremely conservative Muslims is very puzzling to me.

I heard stupid things from you, but this one tops 'em all!

Harvard is the embodiment of elitism. In fact, it is easily be described as the bastion of a distinctly Protestant elite. It imposed quotas on Jews, and persecuted homosexuals through a secret student court. It is one of the largest investor in the American armament industry, and has censored critics of the war on Iraq (I had lunch with a Harvard professor who had to immigrate to Sweden because of the pressure from the board). The university openly accepted a 20 million dollars donation from Wahabism strongest supporters and exporters (the Al-Sauds!. It also serves as Alan Dershowitz’s podium.

And you call that “left”? Get a friggin’ clue![/quote]

Once again you show you know nothing about modern American politics or institutions.

[quote]orion wrote:
A few hours a week?

In the least used gym?

Where´s the problem?

[/quote]

The problem is discrimination and double standards.

[quote]orion wrote:
A few hours a week?

In the least used gym?

Where´s the problem?

[/quote]

The problem was pretty well stated.

Let a christian group ask for the same thing, and it would be ridiculed non-stop. Or let a men’s group ask for a man’s only gym - and it would be criminalized.

Honestly how hard is it for you to understand the underlying hypcrisy?

Western women have fought long and hard for equality just to have some stone age customs try to drag them back to the stone ages. If Muslim women don’t like it they have the right to open their own gym. It is time to stop reverse discrimination and Harvard University should know that, so much for big money buying good education, dumb and dumber!

There’s a gym two blocks away from where I live. It’s got a provocative silhouette for logo, and is called “Girls”. At first, I thought it was a strip club or something of the sort. Turns out it’s a gym where chicks who don’t want to be ogled or bother with their appearances go to. I’m pretty certain that an equivalent for males would provoke outrage in Sweden. The concept drew so many supporters that it seems to be spreading like wildfire across the country.

So, yes, there is discrimination, but as long as they’re privately owned and tolerated, what’s the problem?

Zap is talking about double standards. It is well known that his favorite justification of Iraq’s invasion is Saddam compensating the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. Well, the Saudi dude who gave millions of dollars to Harvard and was received with the utmost honors, did the same - beating Saddam’s figures by at least an order of magnitude. So, should we be surprised that an institution that’s proud to take money from Wahabi scum, tries to please its Wahabi residents?

Seriously Zap, do you really find that “puzzling”?

[quote]lixy wrote:
There’s a gym two blocks away from where I live. It’s got a provocative silhouette for logo, and is called “Girls”. At first, I thought it was a strip club or something of the sort. Turns out it’s a gym where chicks who don’t want to be ogled or bother with their appearances go to. I’m pretty certain that an equivalent for males would provoke outrage in Sweden. The concept drew so many supporters that it seems to be spreading like wildfire across the country.

So, yes, there is discrimination, but as long as they’re privately owned and tolerated, what’s the problem?
[/quote]
The Harvard gym is not a private gym for girls. It is a gym for the student body. If Harvard dedicated a gym to men only it would also be discrimination.

[quote]

Zap is talking about double standards. It is well known that his favorite justification of Iraq’s invasion is Saddam compensating the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. Well, the Saudi dude who gave millions of dollars to Harvard and was received with the utmost honors, did the same - beating Saddam’s figures by at least an order of magnitude. So, should we be surprised that an institution that’s proud to take money from Wahabi scum, tries to please its Wahabi residents?

Seriously Zap, do you really find that “puzzling”?[/quote]

Yes, I find Harvard’s hypocrisy puzzling, but I find most thinking from the left puzzling so I am not surprised.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
[…]
An Associated Press reporter who went to the gym Monday did not see any Muslim women entering. Efforts to reach some of the women who requested the policy through the Women’s Center were unsuccessful.

The policy will be reviewed at the end of the semester, Mitchell said.
[…]
[/quote]

They’ve fallen off the fitness wagon like everyone else. If you remove looks/sexual competition from the equation, the motivation to stay fit and healthy is just too weak for most people, even the otherwise motivated types.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

The Harvard gym is not a private gym for girls. It is a gym for the student body. If Harvard dedicated a gym to men only it would also be discrimination.

[/quote]

It’s still a private gym owned by a private institution payed for with a private (massive) endowment. I don’t necessarily agree with this decision-- particularly since I worked out in both those time slots in college-- but private organizations discriminate constantly in all facets of life as is usually their right.

Speaking of massive endowments in private places, my…

[quote]etaco wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

The Harvard gym is not a private gym for girls. It is a gym for the student body. If Harvard dedicated a gym to men only it would also be discrimination.

It’s still a private gym owned by a private institution payed for with a private (massive) endowment. I don’t necessarily agree with this decision-- particularly since I worked out in both those time slots in college-- but private organizations discriminate constantly in all facets of life as is usually their right.

Speaking of massive endowments in private places, my…[/quote]

Yes they are private but they do receive public funding which may make this illegal. Either way the legality is not my complaint. The point that an institution like Harvard, which fired their president for pointing out differences between men and women in the area of higher mathematics is overtly discriminating based on gender is hypocritical and rather ironic.

…swollen prostate?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The Harvard gym is not a private gym for girls. It is a gym for the student body. If Harvard dedicated a gym to men only it would also be discrimination. [/quote]

I totally agree with it being discrimination. Read my post above. But Harvard is a private institution and has been so since the 19th century. Again, what is the problem?

And taking considerable amounts of money from Wahabis and then refusing to accommodate them on campus wouldn’t be hypocrisy?

Get real!

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The Harvard gym is not a private gym for girls. It is a gym for the student body. If Harvard dedicated a gym to men only it would also be discrimination.

I totally agree with it being discrimination. Read my post above. But Harvard is a private institution and has been so since the 19th century. Again, what is the problem?

Yes, I find Harvard’s hypocrisy puzzling, but I find most thinking from the left puzzling so I am not surprised.

And taking considerable amounts of money from Wahabis and then refusing to accommodate them on campus wouldn’t be hypocrisy?

Get real![/quote]

It would not be hypocrisy if Harvard did not violate its own standards. Does Harvard have standards on sources of donations?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It would not be hypocrisy if Harvard did not violate its own standards. Does Harvard have standards on sources of donations? [/quote]

Of course it does. Try giving them a check issued by “Nazis for a Better Education”, “KKK Lovers” or “Hamas Forever”.

As far as I know, they even refuse donations from their alumnus body. Hanfstaengl’s money was repeatedly turned down.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
It would not be hypocrisy if Harvard did not violate its own standards. Does Harvard have standards on sources of donations?

Of course it does. Try giving them a check issued by “Nazis for a Better Education”, “KKK Lovers” or “Hamas Forever”.

As far as I know, they even refuse donations from their alumnus body. Hanfstaengl’s money was repeatedly turned down.[/quote]

Do you consider muslims to be part that class?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Yes they are private but they do receive public funding which may make this illegal. Either way the legality is not my complaint. The point that an institution like Harvard, which fired their president for pointing out differences between men and women in the area of higher mathematics is overtly discriminating based on gender is hypocritical and rather ironic.[/quote]

My school is private, but we’re required to pay for a gym membership (called Athletic Facilities fee, or something) with our tuition. If Harvard is the same, then it doesn’t matter if they use public funding or not, then it’s ridiculous to force charge students for a resource and then allow some students to co-opt it.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
It would not be hypocrisy if Harvard did not violate its own standards. Does Harvard have standards on sources of donations?

Of course it does. Try giving them a check issued by “Nazis for a Better Education”, “KKK Lovers” or “Hamas Forever”.

As far as I know, they even refuse donations from their alumnus body. Hanfstaengl’s money was repeatedly turned down.

Do you consider muslims to be part that class?[/quote]

What class?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
It would not be hypocrisy if Harvard did not violate its own standards. Does Harvard have standards on sources of donations?

Of course it does. Try giving them a check issued by “Nazis for a Better Education”, “KKK Lovers” or “Hamas Forever”.

As far as I know, they even refuse donations from their alumnus body. Hanfstaengl’s money was repeatedly turned down.

Do you consider muslims to be part that class?

What class?[/quote]

The “KKK Lovers” etc? Are Harvards Wahhabist donators blatant abusers of women and terrorist supporters or do the just happen to be Wahhabist by birth?