RKC swings being distinct in that you actively pull the bell back down?
No, theyāre a whole different ballgame. KB sport swings involve you using your body like a pendulum to generate momentum so the bell basically moves without you making much effort. Theyāre the precursor to the snatch and even the clean. The idea is into be able to keep going for 10+ minutes so you donāt want to be doing much work per rep. Check my old YouTube videos from 2014 if you want to get an idea.
Is there any benefit to these for a non-kB competitor?
Also: I did some more swings.
Starting to get very antsy thinking about the next phase. I feel like Iām veering towards the following vague structure:
Train in some form every day I work less than 12 hours. Some of these will be active rest, judged by workload and (probably) weather. Yes I could do these in a gym on the treadmill or stationary bike, no I probably wonāt.
2 sessions a week of āheavyā work. One squat day, one deadlift day. Squats 5/3/1 FBFB structure, Deadlifts clusters at a āTMā.
Loaded carries of some form weekly, heavy if weather permits.
Other sessions to be based around basic bodyweight movements, loaded carries, sprint, throws and kB work.
Isolated grip work where needed.
Yes, this is deliberately vague, but Iām fully aware my schedule is going to be less than ideal for the foreseeable future and I think this will take me towards my goals, training wise, without distracting too much from other areas of life. Itās deliberately set up so all Iām relying on is finding some time daily, somewhere, and sleeping less is always an option if needed.
It depends. If you want to get stronger, no. If you want to improve your steady state cardio capacity without so much #@$%ing running, maybe - although prowler pushes or sped drags would do the same AND make you stronger. If you want to learn how to relax while moving a light weight for a long time, yes, theyāre great for that.
Apparently theyāre helpful if youāve got back issues, so I suppose thereās one use outside of competition.
Honestly, I look at all the kb sport stuff like Olympic weightlifting: will it make you stronger? Yes, but the amount of time youāll spend refining technique before you can move enough to get stronger is ridiculous compared to swatting, deadlifting and pressing. Same with kb sport stuff for conditioning. There are many, many ways to improve your conditioning that are more efficient.
By all means give it a go if you like, and Iāll use whatever knowledge I have to help you but there are more productive ways to spend your training time.
1 Like
Couple things to clarify:
-
MarkKO was actually a kettlebell sport competitor; Iām just a guy who works out with some kettlebells.
-
Maybe I didnāt state this clearly, but I wouldnāt necessarily advocate KB sport as a way to train for or improve performance in the powerlifts. Probably a better way to express my view would be ākettlebell training can be useful in getting your body prepared to reintroduce heavy barbell training.ā Thereās a key distrinction baked in here between kettlebell sport and kettlebell training - as Mark has described eloquently, KB sport athletes are all about becoming as efficient as possible in their movements, almost like how golfers can crank a 320-yard drive with seemingly no effort - theyāve gotten their swing mechanics so efficient that āstrengthā is no longer the only component driving the bell upwards.
-
Iām not going to pretend to be an expert, but Iām slightly more bullish than Mark on the use of kettlebells for the āregular guy trying to stay fitā crowd (possibly because I didnāt spend 10 minutes straight snatching the damn things like Mark did during his competition days). I feel that KBās are going to be my perfect tool for staying-in-shape-at-home-once-I-have-kids, and right now theyāre at least a helpful supplement to barbell training. I really like doing some deadlifts and finishing with a couple sets of KB Snatches.
Hands up, Iāve only become aware of the difference in this thread, so my bad on that one
This was exactly what I meant by ābuilding a foundation for barbell trainingā
This is more or less exactly what Iām looking for, and why I intend to be using a fair bit more of my kBās.
1 Like
Iāll give you that one hundred per cent. As long as some of your kbs are 53 lbs or over youāll maintain strength, ESPECIALLY using rkc style training.
Iāll even go so far as to say if you were going to try using kb sport as a training method, long cycle clean and jerk would be your best bet. It is brutal, and I found unlike with the classic biathlon that strength made a big difference.
Interesting factoid, Igor Morozov (90 kg, had a wr or two in kb sport) reckons a bodyweight seated press and double bodyweight squat are indicators youāre ready to compete with 70 lbs lbs - assuming you already train for kb sport. I have my doubts, as I wonder whether top flight kb sport guys are that strong.
I think this is one of those maddening-but-kinda-cool examples of i) how different definitions of āstrengthā matter across different sports and ii) training for sport-specific needs. Thereās a point of diminishing returns beyond which they donāt really care if they can squat more, right? Will taking their squat from 400 pounds to 500 pounds have a direct carry-over to their ability to snatch a 70-pound kettlebell 100-plus times? Or more to the point, is the effort necessary to take their squat from 400 to 500 pounds worth the investment of training time, or can that time be better spent practicing their KB skills?
One of the interesting things I read awhile back, I think in an article from someone in the Westside camp, was a caution against competitive powerlifters being too into their āGPPā (general physical preparedness) work. Basically, some guys would get carried away with their sled drags and Prowler sprints, to the point where it was a detriment to their powerlifting; the authorās point was that stuff like sled drags and Prowler sprints were great, but that the lifter shouldnāt start worrying about them more than their primary meat-and-potatoes work. Similarly, Iād imagine the KB sport athlete needs to have a basic level of limit strength so a 70-pound bell feels ālightā but that once they can squat 400-something pounds, adding more limit strength has relatively little additional benefit to their KB performance.
Those strength levels may have been a good indicator for him - perhaps when he was passing those numbers it meant that his top-end strength had reached the level he needed to be for a successful competition, and from that point onwards he felt there was greater yield in practicing KB technique and events instead of pushing for greater limit strength?
1 Like
I think youāre spot on there. Youāve got to find the sweet spot when it comes to accessories, conditioning and the like.
Wow, I sparked a proper debate here. Thanks guys.
One more day of this god awful program to go, sadly excited to do something other than swings.
1 Like
Deadlifts. Youāll find out how much stronger you are.
First day off the swings program, was insanely excited to actually touch something other than a kettlebell. Had to restrain myself and keep the goals in mind (more on that in a minute).
Box jumps:
Worked up to a set of 5 onto a 90cm box
Squats:
5 x 65kg, 75kg, 85kg. (FBFB assistance day)
Pull-ups:
The idea was to do one pull-up every 10secs until I couldnāt do a crisp rep, mixing grip up, then try and beat that every pull-up session, however I struggled to keep track of counting to 10 and how many reps so I think the next strategy will be to time a 10min stretch and just add reps. Probably did about 50 but definitely lost count repeatedly.
One arm dB C & P:
5 x 5 each side, no rest. Always liked this as an all around awesome exercise. Thought Iād picked up the 20, but discovered afterwards it was an 18kg. Ah well.
One arm Lat pull-down:
12/10/8/6 each side, increasing weights. Still love this exercise for hitting lats and biceps in one go.
Also did some warm up stuff in between sets earlier on, band pull aparts and goblet squats etc.
I wrote about my long-term, big picture goals above, but if thereās anything Iām known for, itās quoting Dan John, and specifically about goal setting. So with my long term goals in mind, hereās a list of short term goals to be achieved before I hit 30 (early September):
Strength: 180kg deadlift, 140kg squat, 10 pull-ups, 60kg strict press. This is essentially just returning myself to my strength levels before I stopped training, roughly.
Conditioning: 25min 5k. No, I have no intention of making running a big part of my training, but this is about as good a conditioning goal as I can come up with.
Consistency: Training of some sort daily. Exceptions are: any day I work more than 12 hours. Any day where I wouldnāt see my boy if I chose to train.
Diet: Log diet for everyday on myfitnesspal.com. I have to admit food will be the biggest issue, and the most important factor, so as much of a pain in the arse as this is, itās important enough to get it done temporarily.
First day back, and it turns out I eat like an anorexic teenager. Having this down on e-paper might help.
1 Like
The appās pretty good.
I had a look for that, might have to try again, would make life a whole lot easier
16 hour day saturday so no training, walked about 10 miles sunday doing various things.
Decided I needed a bit of intensity today though, but British summer is this week, so it seemed a shame to waste it. Took some kBās out on the hill and did some ālitvinovā style workouts. Squats/swings/snatches/C&P followed by some sort of hill sprint/carry. Did one run with bear crawls too, but cut that short when my hands landed closer than I wanted to a nice steaming pile.
2 Likes
Midnight gym session, felt like I hadnāt lifted anything for a while so did my (first ever?) back day.
Power cleans:
worked up to about 60kg x 5
Wanted something explosive for the start of the workout and this was about as good of an āexplosive pullā as I could come up with at that point. Tried to make it as āpull-eyā as possible and minimise hip hinging.
Cable rows:
5 sets of 10
Superset:
dB hang and swing set/dB front lever rows. 3 x 10
Curls:
Some sets of some
Pull-ups: 50 odd spaced throughout the workout.
It was a long day so nothing too heavy got moved today.
āpushā day:
Squats:
FBFB sets
OHP:
worked up to 5 singles at 60kg
Bench (first bench in about 6 months from memory)
5 x 5 at 60kg
I was always being told that my grip was too narrow to bench heavy so Iām taking the lay off as an opportunity to re learn the movement, on the rare occasions I actually do it.
Arnold Press:
3 x 12 @ 14kg
Shoulder 3 ways, with iso-holds:
some.