When people “round” their butts at the bottom of a squat, why is that so bad? I can’t get past 90 degrees unless my ass rounds, and to stop before rounding is more stressful on my knees than if I just go ass to grass. Am I really fucking myself up that bad?
Round butts are nice. Jessica Biel comes to mind.
It’s rounding your back thats bads.
rounding of the butt? arching of the low back, maybe? Please clue me/us in.
[quote]riverhawk23 wrote:
Round butts are nice. Jessica Biel comes to mind.
It’s rounding your back thats bads.[/quote]
I mean like this:
at the bottom of his squat, it’s not like he does it a ton, but you can clearly see the end of his spine round and basically his pelvis tilts…I think people call it “rounding” on here…does that make it clearer, sorry, I just don’t know how else to describe it…
Here’s a great example!
“lower back rounding”
the thing is EVEN WHEN HE SAYS “do it like this”, his “correct squat” has his back rounding…look @ 0:58! He says its correct, but his lower back still “tilts” back up when he drives his legs and extends them.
I focus SO MUCH on keeping that back straight, which certainly helps when doing front squats because its really hard to screw up, but I don’t know if the kind of rounding he is doing is acceptable, because at a certain degree it seems like its bound to happen regardless of how tight you keep the arch. I would say my rounding is like @ 0:58…very little, but as you can see, it’s still there.
Does that clear things up?
That rounding of a tiny bit doesn’t seem like much, that little bit will work itself out through reps and better flexibilty. It’s that first one where you essentially lose all stablity and will mangle you back you need to not do.
That’s why some people shouldn’t go past 90 degrees. I can’t remember where I read the article, may have been on here, but rounding is not good for your spine.
I don’t squat below 90 degrees anymore cause of this problem. I have a really long built body, and anything past 90 causes my lower spine to round like that and creates a lot of tension and pain in the lower back and can lead to disk problems.
I did that too and it caused some negligible pain in my lower back after sets.
I did overhead squat stretches with a broomstick every day.
It doesn’t happen anymore and I get no pain.
Thing is, I have ZERO back pain but I get more pain from the stalled squats because it puts so much tension on my joints…going ass to grass just doesn’t load my knees up as much at the bottom of a deep squat, so I’m wondering if that means I’m doing them right?
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:By flexing the lumbar spine, you also unevenly distribute load on the nucleus of the intervertebral disc, predisposing you to a herniation.
I could go on, lol, but I don’t want to send anyone to sleep.
BBB[/quote]
Actually, I’d like you to expand on this point. Can you give me a mental image of what it looks like when someone gets into the lumbar spine flex you’re writing about?
I have had two episodes of mild disc herniation in the past 6 months and I’m wondering if this is a factor. (I’m very tall and try to squat very low)
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
If you study the anatomy of the back, you will realise that it is immensely strong in both compressive and shear loading when in a neutral position i.e. not flexed, but gently curved in that way you see it in diagrams (cervical lordosis, thoracic kyphosis and lumbar lordosis).
Move out of that neutral range and you lose a vast amount of the inherent strength, especially in terms of shear loading. This can cause abberant loading on the facet joints, leading to degeneration over time, or facet capsule sprain in the actute term.
By flexing the lumbar spine, you also unevenly distribute load on the nucleus of the intervertebral disc, predisposing you to a herniation.
I could go on, lol, but I don’t want to send anyone to sleep.
BBB[/quote]
So are you saying he’s still doing it wrong in the Squat Rx video @ 0:58? Is even a little rounding like at :58 acceptable?
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
If you study the anatomy of the back, you will realise that it is immensely strong in both compressive and shear loading when in a neutral position i.e. not flexed, but gently curved in that way you see it in diagrams (cervical lordosis, thoracic kyphosis and lumbar lordosis).
Move out of that neutral range and you lose a vast amount of the inherent strength, especially in terms of shear loading. This can cause abberant loading on the facet joints, leading to degeneration over time, or facet capsule sprain in the actute term.
By flexing the lumbar spine, you also unevenly distribute load on the nucleus of the intervertebral disc, predisposing you to a herniation.
I could go on, lol, but I don’t want to send anyone to sleep.
BBB[/quote]
I’m just curious, but when does the spine ever receive a shear load? I can see where it could receive uneven compressive load that could mimic shear loading, but not a shear load itself.
you do loose a lot of potentail generated force if you round your back at the bottom, my squat 1rm went from 220-315 in DAYS after i solved technique problems
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
If you study the anatomy of the back, you will realise that it is immensely strong in both compressive and shear loading when in a neutral position i.e. not flexed, but gently curved in that way you see it in diagrams (cervical lordosis, thoracic kyphosis and lumbar lordosis).
Move out of that neutral range and you lose a vast amount of the inherent strength, especially in terms of shear loading. This can cause abberant loading on the facet joints, leading to degeneration over time, or facet capsule sprain in the actute term.
By flexing the lumbar spine, you also unevenly distribute load on the nucleus of the intervertebral disc, predisposing you to a herniation.
I could go on, lol, but I don’t want to send anyone to sleep.
BBB[/quote]
Good stuff. I wouldn’t mind some elaboration either.
Slightly unrelated, but I’ve always wanted to hear Stuart McGill’s views on stone lifting like in strongman.
[quote]acelement wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
If you study the anatomy of the back, you will realise that it is immensely strong in both compressive and shear loading when in a neutral position i.e. not flexed, but gently curved in that way you see it in diagrams (cervical lordosis, thoracic kyphosis and lumbar lordosis).
Move out of that neutral range and you lose a vast amount of the inherent strength, especially in terms of shear loading. This can cause abberant loading on the facet joints, leading to degeneration over time, or facet capsule sprain in the actute term.
By flexing the lumbar spine, you also unevenly distribute load on the nucleus of the intervertebral disc, predisposing you to a herniation.
I could go on, lol, but I don’t want to send anyone to sleep.
BBB
So are you saying he’s still doing it wrong in the Squat Rx video @ 0:58? Is even a little rounding like at :58 acceptable?
[/quote]
First, Boris is using the “low rack” bar position. I’ve yet to see anyone be able to hit ATG using that position without at least a little spinal rounding. In fact, it’s not meant for that purpose. It’s used by powerlifters who only need to go to parallel and try to use as much posterior chain in their squats as possible (meaning lots of hip flexion/extension and a much more pronounced forward torso angle).
The “high rack” bar position is much more ATG friendly allows for a more upright torso, and more quad activation, while minimizing spinal rounding.
As far as Justin Harris’s vid, he has minimal spinal rounding at best, and no, such a small amount is not likely to damage his spine.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
acelement wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
If you study the anatomy of the back, you will realise that it is immensely strong in both compressive and shear loading when in a neutral position i.e. not flexed, but gently curved in that way you see it in diagrams (cervical lordosis, thoracic kyphosis and lumbar lordosis).
Move out of that neutral range and you lose a vast amount of the inherent strength, especially in terms of shear loading. This can cause abberant loading on the facet joints, leading to degeneration over time, or facet capsule sprain in the actute term.
By flexing the lumbar spine, you also unevenly distribute load on the nucleus of the intervertebral disc, predisposing you to a herniation.
I could go on, lol, but I don’t want to send anyone to sleep.
BBB
So are you saying he’s still doing it wrong in the Squat Rx video @ 0:58? Is even a little rounding like at :58 acceptable?
First, Boris is using the “low rack” bar position. I’ve yet to see anyone be able to hit ATG using that position without at least a little spinal rounding. In fact, it’s not meant for that purpose. It’s used by powerlifters who only need to go to parallel and try to use as much posterior chain in their squats as possible (meaning lots of hip flexion/extension and a much more pronounced forward torso angle).
The “high rack” bar position is much more ATG friendly allows for a more upright torso, and more quad activation, while minimizing spinal rounding.
As far as Justin Harris’s vid, he has minimal spinal rounding at best, and no, such a small amount is not likely to damage his spine. [/quote]
So if I’ve got a little rounding in my front squats when going ATG, I shouldn’t worry?
[quote]acelement wrote:
So if I’ve got a little rounding in my front squats when going ATG, I shouldn’t worry?
[/quote]
I find it much worse going deep with Front Squats and now I always cut them high.
I squat low bar, wide stance, to IPF depth. It took me a while to be able to consistently get depth safely. For me, it was a case of pulling the bar harder into my back, getting into a more upright position.