So are you saying it’s possible to go from pulling 225 to 455 with only neural adaptation wolfpack?
[quote]elano wrote:
So are you saying it’s possible to go from pulling 225 to 455 with only neural adaptation wolfpack?[/quote]
Maybe for a single, for some genetic freaks.
The thing is we aren’t talking about singles here (which have a much greater neural component than reps of 8-12 like the OP was asking about). I’ve never seen anyone go from repping 255 for 8-12 to repping 455 for 8-12 on deadlift (of average height) who did not have to put on some significant muscle to do so.
Wait wait wait TD, so you’re saying I don’t have awesome arm genetics!? How dare you! Look at this “before” photo (after 15 lbs of gained muscle lol)
[photo]15937[/photo]
I think it entirely depends on genetics. Speaking from a non-BB point of view, some powerlifters stay at the same weight their entire career and put hundreds of pounds on their total, i.e some of the freaks in the IPF who are squatting 700lbs at 165 with single ply gear and belt/wraps. But that is the ultimate EXCEPTION, and some people just need to come to grips that they arent the genetic elite and that to get stronger they will have to up their bodyweight as well. All the comparisons to olympic lifters, powerlifters at an elite level just can’t be applied to the regular population. These guys have a small crew of advisors telling them what to eat, what to inject (don’t kid yourself ;D ), and how/when to train. How strong you get at a certain bodyweight is 100% genetics, some are blessed with it, others just need to get bigger to get stronger. Some will probably hit a “sweet spot” in weight and start making massive strength gains for a long time and just stall out.
For myself, I’m not a genetic freak at all. I know this and also know that @ 5’9" I will NEVER be a successful 165’er no matter how hard I train. In fact, my body does not want to stay at 165 right now, my frame could use another 30-40lbs, which is fine with me. After adding 50lbs onto my bench this year, I found that… OMG… wait for it… my chest size increased 2 inches. My body NEEDS to get bigger to handle heavier weights, thats the way I’m built. I have no amazing leverages or crazy CNS, so the only solution is more mass. I think for 99% of us, this is the only sure way to get stronger and bigger regardless what rep ranges we choose.
I’m still a noob, and refrain from attempting to give any advice to people on this site. Mostly I just stick around for the articles and occasional humor. The above is just the knowledge I’ve taken away from t-cell, intensemuscle boards, and articles from big/strong people. I’ve got a long road ahead of me, but at least I don’t have my head in the clouds like some people here who think they are somehow going to add a few hundred pounds of weight to their lifts and see NO increase in size or build a huge chest by repping out with 225 every single training day.
I always thought that bugeishaad is a 30 plus year old from his old avatar pic with the rear lat spread. Didnt know that he is actually a young kid.
[quote]OatsNMilk wrote:
I always thought that bugeishaad is a 30 plus year old from his old avatar pic with the rear lat spread. Didnt know that he is actually a young kid.[/quote]
That’s what they all say. Don’t worry Chris Hansen has better things to do, lucky you
I didn’t think people actually thought that gaining strength without adding mass was possible … until yesterday. A senior student of mine approached me. Asked for a program that will get him stronger without getting bigger. Wow. He is around 6’0 170 lbs, so pretty lanky. I really don’t understand where this thinking comes from.
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I didn’t think people actually thought that gaining strength without adding mass was possible … until yesterday. A senior student of mine approached me. Asked for a program that will get him stronger without getting bigger. Wow. He is around 6’0 170 lbs, so pretty lanky. I really don’t understand where this thinking comes from.
[/quote]
I mentioned it earlier. You have personal trainers who clearly act as if gaining muscle mass should pretty much be avoided. That does two things. Number one, it instantly makes any minor progress seem stellar…since the individual is no longer looking for quantitative size and weight gains (or even substantial strength gains) but arbitrary bullshit like “function”. Number two, it causes the lifter to either ignore or literally turn their noses up at people who actually did get really big in the gym so no more fear of that person learning from those people.
People can toil away for years trying to “maximize their strength at the same body weight” and never realize just how little overall progress they are making because they have been convinced that actually putting that VISIBLE size on is “bad”.
That is why I made such an issue of bullshit statements like “bodybuilders can’t climb stairs”. If trainers (even a couple on this site) weren’t acting like bodybuilding was from the devil, I doubt you would be seeing as much of it.
Now, of course, some of that is cultural since it seems to suddenly be en vogue to look about as androgynous as possible. I see guys literally out-dressing (and out-face painting) the girl next to them. It’s cool to weigh less than your girlfriend now.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
People can toil away for years trying to “maximize their strength at the same body weight” and never realize just how little overall progress they are making because they have been convinced that actually putting that VISIBLE size on is “bad”.
[/quote]
People have been convinced of two things: jack and shit.
As difficult as it may be for you to comprehend, some people just don’t wanna look like the incredible Hulk, not because they have been convinced that it’s bad, they just don’t want to, maybe because bitches don’t dig that type, or maybe it ain’t what the sport they practice calls for, or maybe they just don’t give two shits what some asian dude thinks of their physique.
know what I’m saying? You probably don’t.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Now, of course, some of that is cultural since it seems to suddenly be en vogue to look about as androgynous as possible. I see guys literally out-dressing (and out-face painting) the girl next to them. It’s cool to weigh less than your girlfriend now.[/quote]
Now? Wadda ya mean, “now”?
Have you ever heard about the eighties, mr professor?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Now, of course, some of that is cultural since it seems to suddenly be en vogue to look about as androgynous as possible. I see guys literally out-dressing (and out-face painting) the girl next to them. It’s cool to weigh less than your girlfriend now.[/quote]
How you have the patience to argue about the same shit over and over with some of these retards is beyond me.
Good lord - it’s just an endless fucking parade of stupidity and one-upmanship around here…
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Now, of course, some of that is cultural since it seems to suddenly be en vogue to look about as androgynous as possible. I see guys literally out-dressing (and out-face painting) the girl next to them. It’s cool to weigh less than your girlfriend now.[/quote]
How you have the patience to argue about the same shit over and over with some of these retards is beyond me.
Good lord - it’s just an endless fucking parade of stupidity and one-upmanship around here… [/quote]
I get bored…and I have actually found it to be worse on some other boards. If the T-Cell hadn’t been created, I doubt I would be here right now, but there seem to be some stand out people in it now who know what they are talking about.
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
Have you ever heard about the eighties, mr professor?
[/quote]
I’m not the professor, but I was a kid in the 80’s. I remember watching Conan and The Hulk on tv and wanting to be big and strong like them.
To each his own as to how big they want to get, but I don’t see adding size in pursuit of strength as a negative. I’ve always associated size with strength, haven’t you?
[quote]ds1973 wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
Have you ever heard about the eighties, mr professor?
[/quote]
I’m not the professor, but I was a kid in the 80’s. I remember watching Conan and The Hulk on tv and wanting to be big and strong like them.
To each his own as to how big they want to get, but I don’t see adding size in pursuit of strength as a negative. I’ve always associated size with strength, haven’t you?[/quote]
Mr. T was pretty bad ass too. Back then, the people who played tough guys actually had muscles. Now they have 6 packs.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]ds1973 wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
Have you ever heard about the eighties, mr professor?
[/quote]
I’m not the professor, but I was a kid in the 80’s. I remember watching Conan and The Hulk on tv and wanting to be big and strong like them.
To each his own as to how big they want to get, but I don’t see adding size in pursuit of strength as a negative. I’ve always associated size with strength, haven’t you?[/quote]
Mr. T was pretty bad ass too. Back then, the people who played tough guys actually had muscles. Now they have 6 packs.[/quote]
Don’t forget the Barbarian Brothers!
[quote]ds1973 wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
Have you ever heard about the eighties, mr professor?
[/quote]
I’m not the professor, but I was a kid in the 80’s. I remember watching Conan and The Hulk on tv and wanting to be big and strong like them.
To each his own as to how big they want to get, but I don’t see adding size in pursuit of strength as a negative. I’ve always associated size with strength, haven’t you?[/quote]
Of course there is a relation between size and strength, but we all know from life experience that not always the bigger guy is the strongest, or is he the one who can kick a football (soccer?) ball with the most power.
Doesn’t matter anyway, all I’m saying is a lot of people (the most?) do not have any interest in looking like Conan.
It’s not like that look is a chick magnet anyway, and in the end, scoring with as much women as possible is still the thing every male wants to do, as opposed to getting complimented on their big muscles by random male.
And when I mentioned the 80s, I was referring to the glam rock fashion from that era. Apparently you could pick up a lot of bitches if you looked like one in those days.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]ds1973 wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
Have you ever heard about the eighties, mr professor?
[/quote]
I’m not the professor, but I was a kid in the 80’s. I remember watching Conan and The Hulk on tv and wanting to be big and strong like them.
To each his own as to how big they want to get, but I don’t see adding size in pursuit of strength as a negative. I’ve always associated size with strength, haven’t you?[/quote]
Mr. T was pretty bad ass too. Back then, the people who played tough guys actually had muscles. Now they have 6 packs.[/quote]
Don’t forget the Barbarian Brothers![/quote]
And He-Man, can’t forget He-Man.
Everyone (this is the internets, I’m allowed to generalize) associates muscles with strength. The only people that seem to not to, are a percentage of people that lift weights. From my personal experience that is. It’s more than obvious why this is, self justification.
I even have strongman competitors in my Gym and I actually hear them talk about “putting on muscle” at times, not “putting on strength” as if the two are unrelated.
But anyway, all been said before. I’ve only been training for just over a year and already see plenty of lamers that have done less in 3-4 years. This is what they “want” of course.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]Therizza wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]ds1973 wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
Have you ever heard about the eighties, mr professor?
[/quote]
I’m not the professor, but I was a kid in the 80’s. I remember watching Conan and The Hulk on tv and wanting to be big and strong like them.
To each his own as to how big they want to get, but I don’t see adding size in pursuit of strength as a negative. I’ve always associated size with strength, haven’t you?[/quote]
Mr. T was pretty bad ass too. Back then, the people who played tough guys actually had muscles. Now they have 6 packs.[/quote]
Don’t forget the Barbarian Brothers![/quote]
And He-Man, can’t forget He-Man.[/quote]
OK, now that we have gotten it out the way that the 80’s had far more stand out well developed people in pop culture than we do today by far (something we obviously simply HAD to prove because clearly hair bands were the only thing going on between 1980-89), how about we get back on topic and/or ignore the troll?
come on! PX, you mean mark maquire, taylor lautner, adrian peterson, john cena, that colonel in avatar, wolverine (i know he’s small but he’s supposed to be big), Goku, 50 cent, kkimbo slice, fedor emileynanko aren’t big (one name doesn’t fit)
and that our generation isn’t suffering from bands like kiss, guns annd roses, david bowie, michael jackson, madonna, and the coke fueled anorexic 80’s?
i think PX ignores me. and i usually try be respectful too.
also, you could easily be jokin PX, and im not really ablee prove my point empirically. but nonetheless we can blame society for idiocy, just due to population increases and the internet we have to read more of them
btw, since when do chicks not dig muscle. its never how you look, its how you portray
id also like to point out, especially to TD, that the level of gym retardation, in my opinion, is completely responsible for the failure of many to do anything worthwhile in the gym. i’m no trainer, but a friend of mine, when i led him into proper bodybuilding, exploded with size. one year he went from 165-190. i credit him for the hard work, he’s got a special drive. but all anyone needs is the right coaxing, patience and sacrifice, and anyone can start putting on mass. its so easy its stupid. i think the biggest problem is that newbs dont know whats right, so they follow the crowd.