[quote]RawMinded wrote:
Just take a look at a natural guy who benches 405 and guy that benches 225 for the same amount of reps. The 405 dude is much bigger and fuller and that should answer your question of if strength produces size.[/quote]
From your example, it’s just as likely that size produced the strength.
This is just stupid.
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
As a post on here mentioned, 99% of the people here will not actually compete in bodybuilding. That being the case, is it really a productive use of time to hit the biceps “from different angles?” Is symmetry really all that important? What’s more, I would guess around 75% of the people who come to this or any site looking to “get big” are really doing it to improve sports preformance. [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what does it matter if someone will compete or not? That means we now half ass our goals? Whether I jump on stage or not does not change how I train. If I decided to compete this year, my training would stay exactly the same aside from minor changes and cardio.
In fact, most people who even DO end up competing probably didn’t know they had what it took to do so until after several years of lifting to get bigger…so why the hell would someone with the goal of getting bigger avoid doing what worked to get MOST bodybuilders bigger? Why would they train in a way that if they ever do decide to compete, that they must now completely change how they train as well as work on all of those weak points that they put off due to thinking like you?
I mean, honestly, how does this make sense to you? That is like saying that since you may not ever reach the NFL, when you are playing football with the guys, you just make up your own rules and ignore those that actually made the game what it is…like maybe the football should be replaced by bricks!
Your post is like giving an excuse to half ass your way through this.
If someone is looking to gain size for a specific sport, they should be also training for that sport. That also doesn’t mean they should avoid doing what worked to get most people big and strong unless it interfered with training for their sport.
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]RawMinded wrote:
Just take a look at a natural guy who benches 405 and guy that benches 225 for the same amount of reps. The 405 dude is much bigger and fuller and that should answer your question of if strength produces size.
Roiders will get results when lifting light for plenty of reps but all huge natural guys that i’ve seen are strong as hell.
From my own experience, strength produces size.[/quote]
What?
You might want to rethink what you’ve posted, for both basic grammar and logic.[/quote]
LOL. People like that see really big muscles and actually think “weak”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
As a post on here mentioned, 99% of the people here will not actually compete in bodybuilding. That being the case, is it really a productive use of time to hit the biceps “from different angles?” Is symmetry really all that important? What’s more, I would guess around 75% of the people who come to this or any site looking to “get big” are really doing it to improve sports preformance. [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what does it matter if someone will compete or not? That means we now half ass our goals? Whether I jump on stage or not does not change how I train. If I decided to compete this year, my training would stay exactly the same aside from minor changes and cardio.
In fact, most people who even DO end up competing probably didn’t know they had what it took to do so until after several years of lifting to get bigger…so why the hell would someone with the goal of getting bigger avoid doing what worked to get MOST bodybuilders bigger? Why would they train in a way that if they ever do decide to compete, that they must now completely change how they train as well as work on all of those weak points that they put off due to thinking like you?
I mean, honestly, how does this make sense to you? That is like saying that since you may not ever reach the NFL, when you are playing football with the guys, you just make up your own rules and ignore those that actually made the game what it is…like maybe the football should be replaced by bricks!
Your post is like giving an excuse to half ass your way through this.
If someone is looking to gain size for a specific sport, they should be also training for that sport. That also doesn’t mean they should avoid doing what worked to get most people big and strong unless it interfered with training for their sport.[/quote]
Prof X. Your football analogy is HORRIBLE. If you are playing football with the guys but PRETENDING you are a professional you are going to lose all of your friends. Because everyone wants to play a friendly game with the assclown that thinks he’s a pro…
And if you aren’t going to compete in bodybuilding, then the little intricacies that seperate bodybuilding from powerlifting are not going to matter. Nobody walking down the street is going to say, “Ya you would have an impressive physique, but your bicep peak is not fully developed and your lateral delts are not symetrical with the rest of your shoulders”.
You should really reconsider your “bodybuilding status”, because you are as much a non-competative powerlifter as you are a non-competative bodybuilder.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]RawMinded wrote:
Just take a look at a natural guy who benches 405 and guy that benches 225 for the same amount of reps. The 405 dude is much bigger and fuller and that should answer your question of if strength produces size.
Roiders will get results when lifting light for plenty of reps but all huge natural guys that i’ve seen are strong as hell.
From my own experience, strength produces size.[/quote]
What?
You might want to rethink what you’ve posted, for both basic grammar and logic.[/quote]
LOL. People like that see really big muscles and actually think “weak”.
[/quote]
It’s because they didn’t hypertrophy their sarcosplasms.
I say do what works. If you’re getting bigger and stronger of 5/3/1 or whatever, keep using it. I have my opinions, but the bottom line is that a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle.
[quote]dankid wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
As a post on here mentioned, 99% of the people here will not actually compete in bodybuilding. That being the case, is it really a productive use of time to hit the biceps “from different angles?” Is symmetry really all that important? What’s more, I would guess around 75% of the people who come to this or any site looking to “get big” are really doing it to improve sports preformance. [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what does it matter if someone will compete or not? That means we now half ass our goals? Whether I jump on stage or not does not change how I train. If I decided to compete this year, my training would stay exactly the same aside from minor changes and cardio.
In fact, most people who even DO end up competing probably didn’t know they had what it took to do so until after several years of lifting to get bigger…so why the hell would someone with the goal of getting bigger avoid doing what worked to get MOST bodybuilders bigger? Why would they train in a way that if they ever do decide to compete, that they must now completely change how they train as well as work on all of those weak points that they put off due to thinking like you?
I mean, honestly, how does this make sense to you? That is like saying that since you may not ever reach the NFL, when you are playing football with the guys, you just make up your own rules and ignore those that actually made the game what it is…like maybe the football should be replaced by bricks!
Your post is like giving an excuse to half ass your way through this.
If someone is looking to gain size for a specific sport, they should be also training for that sport. That also doesn’t mean they should avoid doing what worked to get most people big and strong unless it interfered with training for their sport.[/quote]
Prof X. Your football analogy is HORRIBLE. If you are playing football with the guys but PRETENDING you are a professional you are going to lose all of your friends. Because everyone wants to play a friendly game with the assclown that thinks he’s a pro…
And if you aren’t going to compete in bodybuilding, then the little intricacies that seperate bodybuilding from powerlifting are not going to matter. Nobody walking down the street is going to say, “Ya you would have an impressive physique, but your bicep peak is not fully developed and your lateral delts are not symetrical with the rest of your shoulders”.
You should really reconsider your “bodybuilding status”, because you are as much a non-competative powerlifter as you are a non-competative bodybuilder.[/quote]
Bodybuilding is about creating the best possible physique, that means things like symmetry definitely come into play and ignoring them because you “aren’t likely to compete” is fucking stupid. If you just want to get really strong and big and don’t really care if you look proportional etc, then take up powerlifting and get off the forum.
Also… so because we use bodybuilding routines, we now walk around acting like pro bodybuilders all the time/at the gym? LOL wtf. Even so, there wouldn’t be much wrong with that since this is an individual sport.
[quote]dankid wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
As a post on here mentioned, 99% of the people here will not actually compete in bodybuilding. That being the case, is it really a productive use of time to hit the biceps “from different angles?” Is symmetry really all that important? What’s more, I would guess around 75% of the people who come to this or any site looking to “get big” are really doing it to improve sports preformance. [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what does it matter if someone will compete or not? That means we now half ass our goals? Whether I jump on stage or not does not change how I train. If I decided to compete this year, my training would stay exactly the same aside from minor changes and cardio.
In fact, most people who even DO end up competing probably didn’t know they had what it took to do so until after several years of lifting to get bigger…so why the hell would someone with the goal of getting bigger avoid doing what worked to get MOST bodybuilders bigger? Why would they train in a way that if they ever do decide to compete, that they must now completely change how they train as well as work on all of those weak points that they put off due to thinking like you?
I mean, honestly, how does this make sense to you? That is like saying that since you may not ever reach the NFL, when you are playing football with the guys, you just make up your own rules and ignore those that actually made the game what it is…like maybe the football should be replaced by bricks!
Your post is like giving an excuse to half ass your way through this.
If someone is looking to gain size for a specific sport, they should be also training for that sport. That also doesn’t mean they should avoid doing what worked to get most people big and strong unless it interfered with training for their sport.[/quote]
Prof X. Your football analogy is HORRIBLE. If you are playing football with the guys but PRETENDING you are a professional you are going to lose all of your friends. Because everyone wants to play a friendly game with the assclown that thinks he’s a pro…
And if you aren’t going to compete in bodybuilding, then the little intricacies that seperate bodybuilding from powerlifting are not going to matter. Nobody walking down the street is going to say, “Ya you would have an impressive physique, but your bicep peak is not fully developed and your lateral delts are not symetrical with the rest of your shoulders”.
You should really reconsider your “bodybuilding status”, because you are as much a non-competative powerlifter as you are a non-competative bodybuilder.[/quote]
i’m a non-competitive sandwich eater.
[quote]dankid wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
As a post on here mentioned, 99% of the people here will not actually compete in bodybuilding. That being the case, is it really a productive use of time to hit the biceps “from different angles?” Is symmetry really all that important? What’s more, I would guess around 75% of the people who come to this or any site looking to “get big” are really doing it to improve sports preformance. [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what does it matter if someone will compete or not? That means we now half ass our goals? Whether I jump on stage or not does not change how I train. If I decided to compete this year, my training would stay exactly the same aside from minor changes and cardio.
In fact, most people who even DO end up competing probably didn’t know they had what it took to do so until after several years of lifting to get bigger…so why the hell would someone with the goal of getting bigger avoid doing what worked to get MOST bodybuilders bigger? Why would they train in a way that if they ever do decide to compete, that they must now completely change how they train as well as work on all of those weak points that they put off due to thinking like you?
I mean, honestly, how does this make sense to you? That is like saying that since you may not ever reach the NFL, when you are playing football with the guys, you just make up your own rules and ignore those that actually made the game what it is…like maybe the football should be replaced by bricks!
Your post is like giving an excuse to half ass your way through this.
If someone is looking to gain size for a specific sport, they should be also training for that sport. That also doesn’t mean they should avoid doing what worked to get most people big and strong unless it interfered with training for their sport.[/quote]
Prof X. Your football analogy is HORRIBLE. If you are playing football with the guys but PRETENDING you are a professional you are going to lose all of your friends. Because everyone wants to play a friendly game with the assclown that thinks he’s a pro…
And if you aren’t going to compete in bodybuilding, then the little intricacies that seperate bodybuilding from powerlifting are not going to matter. Nobody walking down the street is going to say, “Ya you would have an impressive physique, but your bicep peak is not fully developed and your lateral delts are not symetrical with the rest of your shoulders”.
You should really reconsider your “bodybuilding status”, because you are as much a non-competative powerlifter as you are a non-competative bodybuilder.[/quote]
wow. Dankid i didnt realize you still posted here. please stop.
im dumbfounded that after countless threads of you trying advances training techniques to accomplish jack shit youd have the balls to try and tell Prof X anything in terms of training, whether it be bodybuilding, powerlifting, whatever. ridiculous. one of the biggest guys here and youre going to try and tell him his business.
dankid = type2b?
I just want to see if I’m up to speed here.
To build like a bodybuilder, you should lift like a bodybuilder.
To build like a power lifter, you should lift like a power lifter.
To make progress in either, there should be some type of progression. (volume, weight, some combination of both?)
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am not sure why rugby players and MMA trainers are even in this thread OR this forum.
[/quote]
Rugby players and martial artists can’t be recreational bodybuilders too?
The thread seemed to develop into a discussion of the relative merits of training for size and/or strength, and the differences, if any. I was just offering an opinion based on the fact that I have to cycle the two for my sport.
[/quote]
Are you fucking serious?
I used to train martial arts with the FULL understanding that my progress would be subpar in the gym as long as I was spending three night a week sparring.
It isn’t about whether you can do bodybuilding on the side. This is about making the most progress, not simply doing shit randomly just so you can say you did it.
Most of you won’t see much at all in the way of gains because you won’t pick a fucking goal and run with it. You are trying to be “super athlete who does MMA, boxes, runs marathons, does power lifting all while squatting on a fucking bosu ball”.
If you happen to be one of these “all over the fucking place” people, then either accept you will make lesser progress in EVERYTHING or just stay out of the way.
Unless you now get stopped regularly because of looking like a bodybuilder, I doubt anyone cares.[/quote]
I once saw a 250lb man do a 225lb Squat on an UPTURNED Bosu Ball. He was a mild douchebag though and would do some local shows at like 10% bf even after doing a cycle or two. Epic.
Alan
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
As a post on here mentioned, 99% of the people here will not actually compete in bodybuilding. That being the case, is it really a productive use of time to hit the biceps “from different angles?” Is symmetry really all that important? What’s more, I would guess around 75% of the people who come to this or any site looking to “get big” are really doing it to improve sports preformance. But they don’t say “I want to get big to get better at football/hockey/wrestling.” They just say “I want to get big.” And that’s when the fighting starts between the bodybuilding crowd and the strength crowd. This is why the writers are all promoting strength-based routines. It’s a way to hedge their bet. For the kid looking to get big for football, a strength routine is appropriate. For the guy looking to get big for personal reasons and not to compete in bodybuilding, a strength routine is appropriate.
[/quote]
First, as X said, who really cares if someone decides to compete at BB’ing or not. If their goal is to have a BB’ers physique, then yes, they should train in such a way as to allow them to reach that goal. And as far as symmetry goes, yeah, it actually is fairly useful even to a non bodybuilder as it generally prevents muscle imbalances/injuries later on down the road. Even elite level powerlifters (who’s goal is generally just to have the highest total possible) do plenty of assistance work to try to eliminate “weak links” or muscle imbalances.
Second, even if your theory is true and most people do come here looking to gain size/strength for sport reasons, there is a whole forum titled “Powerlifting” one titled “Olympic lifting” one titled “combat sports” and one titled “conditioning”. So there’s really no reason that they need to be giving their input on the “Bodybuilding training” forum if that’s not how they train or their goal.
[quote]
I do Olympic lifting. My workouts involve either the snatch or clean and jerk, a snatch or clean pull, and a squat or front squat. Sometimes I’ll do a Romanian deadlift or even a conventional deadlift. That’s it. That’s all there is to my routine. Nice and simple. I can do it in my basement, but I also go to a weightlifting gym. If you flex your biceps at my gym, we will laugh at you. If you come in wanting to build big pecs, we will laugh at you. We have many “bodybuilding refugees” who were fed up with not getting stronger but are now happy with their strength gains. We don’t care how big you are; all we care about is weight on the bar. Even that is secondary - what’s even more important is your technique. We don’t worry about spotters. But we’ve also noticed something interesting - as we gain strength and put weight on the bar, we also tend to look better. Shocking. If we miss a lift, we drop the weight and no one yells. There are no mirrors. We don’t post shirtless pictures of ourselves on Internet forums. That’s just strange.[/quote]
Good for you. But if that’s the case, then what on earth are you doing posting in the “Bodybuilding Training” forum? Do you see any of the guys who are training specifically for bodybuilding going into the “Olympic Lifting” forum and posting things like “you guys all look horrible and have no lateral delts, flat chests, and nonexistant biceps”? No, you don’t. You know why? Because we all know that those guys are training specifically with Olympic lifting in mind, not bodybuilding.
We don’t tell you how to train for your goal, or that training like we do will get you to your goal just as well as programs specifically designed to make you better at the Snatch and Clean and Jerk. Nor do we tell you that you are “strange” for having different goals than we do. Why is it so difficult for you to do the same?
I’m not entirely certain if this is the best place to put this, but given the nature of tihs topic…
I’m curious what people here think about an idea that Thibs has been throwing around for a while, that is, going on a prolonged strength/power phase, and reaping great benefits during a straight-up short-ish hypertrophy phase.
It’s not entirely relevant, but I think it’s not too tangential to this topic.
[quote]dankid wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
As a post on here mentioned, 99% of the people here will not actually compete in bodybuilding. That being the case, is it really a productive use of time to hit the biceps “from different angles?” Is symmetry really all that important? What’s more, I would guess around 75% of the people who come to this or any site looking to “get big” are really doing it to improve sports preformance. [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what does it matter if someone will compete or not? That means we now half ass our goals? Whether I jump on stage or not does not change how I train. If I decided to compete this year, my training would stay exactly the same aside from minor changes and cardio.
In fact, most people who even DO end up competing probably didn’t know they had what it took to do so until after several years of lifting to get bigger…so why the hell would someone with the goal of getting bigger avoid doing what worked to get MOST bodybuilders bigger? Why would they train in a way that if they ever do decide to compete, that they must now completely change how they train as well as work on all of those weak points that they put off due to thinking like you?
I mean, honestly, how does this make sense to you? That is like saying that since you may not ever reach the NFL, when you are playing football with the guys, you just make up your own rules and ignore those that actually made the game what it is…like maybe the football should be replaced by bricks!
Your post is like giving an excuse to half ass your way through this.
If someone is looking to gain size for a specific sport, they should be also training for that sport. That also doesn’t mean they should avoid doing what worked to get most people big and strong unless it interfered with training for their sport.[/quote]
Prof X. Your football analogy is HORRIBLE. If you are playing football with the guys but PRETENDING you are a professional you are going to lose all of your friends. Because everyone wants to play a friendly game with the assclown that thinks he’s a pro…
And if you aren’t going to compete in bodybuilding, then the little intricacies that seperate bodybuilding from powerlifting are not going to matter. Nobody walking down the street is going to say, “Ya you would have an impressive physique, but your bicep peak is not fully developed and your lateral delts are not symetrical with the rest of your shoulders”.
You should really reconsider your “bodybuilding status”, because you are as much a non-competative powerlifter as you are a non-competative bodybuilder.[/quote]
Id really like to know what you get out of logging on to this site simply to start an argument with people far more advanced, both physically and WRT experience, than you are.
Anyone with half of a brain can see the point of X’s analogy. It’s a fucking ANALOGY. Obviously not all scenarios have perfectly parallel situations but his point was blatantly clear.
And in reposnse to the other guy talking about the percentage of people here interested in sports performance. If I were interested in getting better at sports the absolute last place I would come to for advice is a bodybulding forum. I would go to a place with people that have specific goals and methods for improving that particular sport. You made your claim about Z% of people coming here for sports improvement because you are used to people who don’t actually want to ‘get big’. They want to get in better shape than their fat ass is in now. That is a much different goal than wanting to add dozens of pounds of muscle to their bodies, regardless of whether or not competition is a final goal. What does a bodybuilding forum have to offer for someone looking to run faster or jump higher?
I would agree with X that the term “bodybuilder” is not limited to those who actually compete. But the problem lies in what exactly defines bodybuilding? A loose definition would be, anyone who trains to improve his or her physique. Unfortunately if you use such a broad definition, there is an inherent subjective gray area. There are no objective standards such as having to gain X amount of muscle or having a certain percentage body fat. So the regular gym rat who barely makes any progress gets to call himself a “bodybuilder”. What separates bodybuilders is talent and desire.
Its really no different than any sport. You have competitive pros and average joe’s.
[quote]bblb wrote:
I say do what works. If you’re getting bigger and stronger of 5/3/1 or whatever, keep using it. I have my opinions, but the bottom line is that a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle. [/quote]
Agree.
And a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle.
[quote]bblb wrote:
I say do what works. If you’re getting bigger and stronger of 5/3/1 or whatever, keep using it. I have my opinions, but the bottom line is that a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle. [/quote]
A stronger muscle is a bigger muscle, but a bigger muscle is also a stronger muscle. Jim Wendler always says that if you want to get stronger you have to gain weight, and we can all agree in order you have to stronger (either in a high or low rep range). You can’t do one without the other which is why I’m confused as to why Brick would ask this stupid question.
[quote]bblb wrote:
I say do what works. If you’re getting bigger and stronger of 5/3/1 or whatever, keep using it. I have my opinions, but the bottom line is that a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle. [/quote]
Untrue. A muscle can be made stronger but not bigger. However, the reverse is true. A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]tap_u_out wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
I think alot of people dont understand bricks post. I will provide the simplest analogy known to man. If you want to look like Ronnie Coleman, Arnold, Dorian Yates or any successful bodybuilder for that matter, then why the fuck would you train like a power lifter, cross country runner, or Olympic athletes.
Power lifters train like other power lifters to become as strong as possible. Sprinters train like other sprinters to run as fast as possible. Why is it that only bodybuilders on this site want to train like power lifters, or Olympic lifters or whatever the fuck it is.
It makes no sense. I have never seen a power lifter say Im using a bodybuilding routine to get stronger and I never seen a professional bodybuilder doing westside to get bigger.[/quote]
Well said…yet look at the people who are mostly arguing against this like Dankid (no pics ever).
The only reason this shit exists is due to so many authors making bodybuilding out to be a negative as if you aren’t “functional” as a result. None of this was around before that.
I am not sure why rugby players and MMA trainers are even in this thread OR this forum.
[/quote]
I’m right here Professor X![/quote]
…
OK.
Who the hell are you?[/quote]
I’m fuckin’ nobody, but if I’m an MMA fighter or BJJ player and want to post here WTF? Who the fuck are you anyway? I was actually complimenting some of yor posts but you really should pull your head out of your ass. Fuck you and your stupid ass attitude.
Pretty sure I just fucked up a joke with mad typo’s & misspellings and I can’t edit it, it isn’t showing.
I hate the tiny ass netbook I’m working with these days