Gotta love Kai. but i notice that little machine he is using at the end, where he’s dorsi flexing his foot, you know i have never seen that machine and was just wondering the other day why no one had created something like that. Apparently i was wrong lol. Im assuming its for anterior tibialis focusing?
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Gotta love Kai. but i notice that little machine he is using at the end, where he’s dorsi flexing his foot, you know i have never seen that machine and was just wondering the other day why no one had created something like that. Apparently i was wrong lol. Im assuming its for anterior tibialis focusing?[/quote]
Yep, he talks about it in the second part.
[quote]red04 wrote:
You’ve got backpedalling down to a science, grats.[/quote]
You must be a savant in reading comprehension compared to the rest of us. Care to show where I said, even once, that it’s impossible for calves to grow and people shouldn’t waste their time training calves?
What is so hard to understand about the fact that I was directly addressing people that claim this, not making the claim myself?
It’s ironic this thread was made. I did some calf work yesterday and they’re really sore today. On my commute home this morning I couldn’t stop thinking how I need to incorporate more calf work into my routines b/c it’s my weakest link (along with alot of people’s here I see).
I’ve become obsessed with them and I have no plans of stopping. I’m going to overcome my awfull calf to quad ratio.
What do you expect the people here to say? “My calves are my weakest point so I think I’m going to ignore training them all together?” Ignoring them over the years has been the problem.
[quote]forlife wrote:
What is so hard to understand about the fact that I was directly addressing people that claim this, not making the claim myself?[/quote]
[quote]
I currently train calves every week, and while I’ve seen some progress over the years, my calves are already genetically large. I’m wondering if it might be smarter to use that slot for something else.[/quote]
The first post in a thread titled “Why Train Calves?” ends with that paragraph, written by you. Either 1 of 2 things happened, you posted that on purpose to rile people up and stir the pot(trolling is fun!) with an idea that is clearly ‘out there,’ or(the more logical thought process) you thought ‘I hear genetics are important for calves and mine were already big, and I already got some more minor growth out of them, maybe they’re not worth it anymore.’
Every post after has been you backpedaling from those first statements, trying to turn it into ‘I was calling out those guys(that amazingly are absent from this thread) that think this way.’ Your idea sucked, you got called on it, shut up and move on stop trying to act like it was beneath you and you had some between the lines agenda in your OP.
The thread was started because of comments I heard here:
If you bothered to actually read the thread, you’d see that I provided several quotes from the above thread and explained my reason for asking the question.
Good job calling me on my motivations though. You da man.
I think a more interesting question would be to consider this at a higher level with a competitor preparing for a bodybuilding competition that takes place 1 year from now. This person has poor genetics for calves and has tried to increase his focus on calves and has reached a point where he can only train calves more by reducing training elsewhere. Should he do so?
And that question is pretty much as ambiguous as it gets but I want to know what people think. And more specifically to what extent if any is bodybuilding a handicapped competition? Would/should a judge be lenient on guys with poor calves? If the rest of the body was better would the calves still be a deal breaker?
In my opinion I think good genetics should be awarded but I’ve always felt bad for a hard worker who has to compete against those with better genetics.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I think the issue with ROM isn’t really about going down low enough, it’s about getting high enough off the platform. I’ve heard a lot about focusing on the peak of the movement and it seems like a lot of people barely hit that. Do you do each of your sets as hard as you can?[/quote]
I mentioned hitting the bottom of the ROM on a standing calf raise because you get physical feedback on every rep (i.e., feeling your heels touch the floor). I go up as high as possible on the top of the ROM, and don’t have any problem feeling that end of the range.
The key is to move through the entire ROM rather than cutting it short. Another thing you can do to maximize ROM is to align your toes with the bar rather than extending your toes past the bar. The further back your heels are, the larger the ROM will be.
Aside from cutting short ROM, the biggest mistake I see people make is to bounce rather than steadily moving through the entire ROM with control.[/quote]
That’s what I would typically expect to hear…but look at Kai’s ROM
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I think the issue with ROM isn’t really about going down low enough, it’s about getting high enough off the platform. I’ve heard a lot about focusing on the peak of the movement and it seems like a lot of people barely hit that. Do you do each of your sets as hard as you can?[/quote]
I mentioned hitting the bottom of the ROM on a standing calf raise because you get physical feedback on every rep (i.e., feeling your heels touch the floor). I go up as high as possible on the top of the ROM, and don’t have any problem feeling that end of the range.
The key is to move through the entire ROM rather than cutting it short. Another thing you can do to maximize ROM is to align your toes with the bar rather than extending your toes past the bar. The further back your heels are, the larger the ROM will be.
Aside from cutting short ROM, the biggest mistake I see people make is to bounce rather than steadily moving through the entire ROM with control.[/quote]
That’s what I would typically expect to hear…but look at Kai’s ROM
[/quote]
And look at Colemans ROM on incline bench press. What’s your point? That different things work for different people? Oh right
Everything I’m about to say is “theory fighting” I’m not an expert and I’m just throwing an idea out there to see what people with more experience than me have to say because I haven’t seen anyone say anything like this yet.
I’m still what I would consider a beginner but on calves is it possible that it has less to do with genetics and more to do with weight? The heavier you are the bigger your calves seem to be. Much more than any other muscles the time under tension from walking or running with a 220 lb body is much more than time under tension walking or running with 180 lb body. Might also explain the gains or lack of, your calves could just be growing because the rest of your body is growing, not necessarily your legs but any part of your body that gets heavier will mean more density for your calves. Seems to me this would be a logical answer. If you train at all while being heavy you’ll get huge dense calves. If you don’t train you’ll just get fat ‘cankles’.
Any thoughts on this idea?
Most people don’t train calves properly.
Pause for at least 2 seconds at the bottom, use a full range of motion, and train in the 5 to 30 rep range. Mix up the weight/reps, the volume, the frequency…at least 3x/week if you have weak calves. Do multiple exercises.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I think the issue with ROM isn’t really about going down low enough, it’s about getting high enough off the platform. I’ve heard a lot about focusing on the peak of the movement and it seems like a lot of people barely hit that. Do you do each of your sets as hard as you can?[/quote]
I mentioned hitting the bottom of the ROM on a standing calf raise because you get physical feedback on every rep (i.e., feeling your heels touch the floor). I go up as high as possible on the top of the ROM, and don’t have any problem feeling that end of the range.
The key is to move through the entire ROM rather than cutting it short. Another thing you can do to maximize ROM is to align your toes with the bar rather than extending your toes past the bar. The further back your heels are, the larger the ROM will be.
Aside from cutting short ROM, the biggest mistake I see people make is to bounce rather than steadily moving through the entire ROM with control.[/quote]
That’s what I would typically expect to hear…but look at Kai’s ROM
[/quote]
And look at Colemans ROM on incline bench press. What’s your point? That different things work for different people? Oh right[/quote]
Just that people say it’s so important to get the full ROM on calves and pause (see post by “producer” above) but obviously that’s not what Kai, who apparently started with crappy calves, did. Nothing new, obviously different people get different results, but I wonder why that would work for him better than better form. Maybe really heavy weight is more important for them, I don’t know. It just seems like he’s bouncing the weight which can be done with a ton of weight and hardly using the muscles much less.
I truly believe, you can make improvements in your overall calf development. The people with the biggest and best calves are 1) genetically gifted, and 2) are extremely large people. I fall under neither of those categories. I have terrible calves but have seen small improvements. Personally, I think calves need a lot of volume each training session and should be trained often for someone like myself. Since your calves are stubborn, train the shit out of them, but smart. Do not bounce out of the bottom. Your calves are reflexive muscles, so they are used to this (bouncing). Get a full stretch at the bottom, and a full contraction to the balls of your feet at the top. Have no method to picking the rep ranges and sets, but remember, you won’t build the diamond cut calves overnight, or over a few years. It is a life-long devotion. The question is, “How bad do you want them?” My bodybuilding coach told me to train calves at least three times a week, or everyday. Pick two exercises each session, 3-5 sets each, and reps ranges of 6-8, 12-15, 20-25, and a burn out of up to 50. If you really want them bad, get a weighted-vest, or ankle weights… and walk around with one of those throughout the day. Why train them? I do not have an answer for you, but as my coach said, “How bad do you want them?” If you can, take your shoes off and train them. If you train calves correctly, you should have a terrible burn in them after each set. Last thing, do not sacrifice quality (the technique of your calf raise) for quantity (amount of reps and weight).
How much growth can one expect in calves? I have embarrassingly tiny calves (14", no lie,). I’m willing to admit maybe I’ve made some mistakes in training. I’ve tried Fat Guy Calves and some other programs, but I gave up after little progress.
So how big has someone with 14" calves gotten them? Can I get them to at least 16"?..because 15-15.5" on long ass legs is still going to look skinny as hell and just doesn’t seem worth it.
I have 8.25" ankles. Is there anything I can do with that? I can put my damn hands around them with ease. Hate it.
Oh, and I weigh 195 if that helps.
WTF? I just measured my sticks again and now they’re 15"? I know I brootalized them the last couple of weeks, but I never thought it would add up to 1/4" that quick.
Huh… high rep pyramids + weighted walking FTW.
Weighted walking FTW indeed
Look who has the largest calves… the obese, and they are certainly doing “weighted walking”
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I think the issue with ROM isn’t really about going down low enough, it’s about getting high enough off the platform. I’ve heard a lot about focusing on the peak of the movement and it seems like a lot of people barely hit that. Do you do each of your sets as hard as you can?[/quote]
I mentioned hitting the bottom of the ROM on a standing calf raise because you get physical feedback on every rep (i.e., feeling your heels touch the floor). I go up as high as possible on the top of the ROM, and don’t have any problem feeling that end of the range.
The key is to move through the entire ROM rather than cutting it short. Another thing you can do to maximize ROM is to align your toes with the bar rather than extending your toes past the bar. The further back your heels are, the larger the ROM will be.
Aside from cutting short ROM, the biggest mistake I see people make is to bounce rather than steadily moving through the entire ROM with control.[/quote]
That’s what I would typically expect to hear…but look at Kai’s ROM
[/quote]
And look at Colemans ROM on incline bench press. What’s your point? That different things work for different people? Oh right[/quote]
Just that people say it’s so important to get the full ROM on calves and pause (see post by “producer” above) but obviously that’s not what Kai, who apparently started with crappy calves, did. Nothing new, obviously different people get different results, but I wonder why that would work for him better than better form. Maybe really heavy weight is more important for them, I don’t know. It just seems like he’s bouncing the weight which can be done with a ton of weight and hardly using the muscles much less.
[/quote]
Just because you perceive something being done does not mean that is whats actually happening. You say that Kai bounces the weights. From that you deduce that he is hardly using the muscle.
That is not a conclusion I make when I watch pro BBers train. These guys know EXACTLY how to hit the target muscles. They wouldnt be PROFESSIONAL bodybuilders if they sucked at lifting weights or were doing it wrong. Kai bounces the weights on seated calf raises. You have no idea how much stress he is putting on the muscle. Your brain isnt connected to his calves.
Focus on what YOU need to do. This goes for everyone pertaining to everything. Maybe when you develop a certain level of mind muscle connection you can also bounce the weights, thus allowing for greater poundage, and still target and stress the muscle.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I think the issue with ROM isn’t really about going down low enough, it’s about getting high enough off the platform. I’ve heard a lot about focusing on the peak of the movement and it seems like a lot of people barely hit that. Do you do each of your sets as hard as you can?[/quote]
I mentioned hitting the bottom of the ROM on a standing calf raise because you get physical feedback on every rep (i.e., feeling your heels touch the floor). I go up as high as possible on the top of the ROM, and don’t have any problem feeling that end of the range.
The key is to move through the entire ROM rather than cutting it short. Another thing you can do to maximize ROM is to align your toes with the bar rather than extending your toes past the bar. The further back your heels are, the larger the ROM will be.
Aside from cutting short ROM, the biggest mistake I see people make is to bounce rather than steadily moving through the entire ROM with control.[/quote]
That’s what I would typically expect to hear…but look at Kai’s ROM
[/quote]
And look at Colemans ROM on incline bench press. What’s your point? That different things work for different people? Oh right[/quote]
Just that people say it’s so important to get the full ROM on calves and pause (see post by “producer” above) but obviously that’s not what Kai, who apparently started with crappy calves, did. Nothing new, obviously different people get different results, but I wonder why that would work for him better than better form. Maybe really heavy weight is more important for them, I don’t know. It just seems like he’s bouncing the weight which can be done with a ton of weight and hardly using the muscles much less.
[/quote]
Just because you perceive something being done does not mean that is whats actually happening. You say that Kai bounces the weights. From that you deduce that he is hardly using the muscle.
That is not a conclusion I make when I watch pro BBers train. These guys know EXACTLY how to hit the target muscles. They wouldnt be PROFESSIONAL bodybuilders if they sucked at lifting weights or were doing it wrong. Kai bounces the weights on seated calf raises. You have no idea how much stress he is putting on the muscle. Your brain isnt connected to his calves.
Focus on what YOU need to do. This goes for everyone pertaining to everything. Maybe when you develop a certain level of mind muscle connection you can also bounce the weights, thus allowing for greater poundage, and still target and stress the muscle. [/quote]
I don’t disagree with you at all. I just said it was different, not wrong.
Might as well try to get something constructive out of this thread…anyone have ideas about a good way to train calves with only freeweights? That’s all I have access too and all I can think of is 1 leg and 2-leg standing calf raises with a weighted bookbag on. I tried seated with a barbell and with a dumbbell and both became a huge pain in the ass trying to hoist the weight on my knees and I neever really saw progress with it anyway.