Why Stay Natural?

Training
164

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]

Accutane and Rogaine.

Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.

[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]

There are definitely negative effects if abused like anything…

And yes you will most or a good portion of your gains if you are not an idiot and keep training/eating properly.

Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]

Didn’t you say earlier that you never come off? You “blast” and “cruise”? If that’s the case, how can you be sure about keeping/maintaining after a cycle?

165

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]

Accutane and Rogaine.

Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.

[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]

There are definitely negative effects if abused like anything…

And yes you will most or a good portion of your gains if you are not an idiot and keep training/eating properly.

Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]

Didn’t you say earlier that you never come off? You “blast” and “cruise”? If that’s the case, how can you be sure about keeping/maintaining after a cycle?
[/quote]

Exactly.

The question is not whether you want to do a cycle or two. The question is if you want to spend the rest of your life dependent on injecting and taking underground drugs of questionable quality to keep looking and feeling like you want to.

166

[quote]Myosin wrote:
Also keep in mind that negative side effects are probably under reported due to the human element of trying not to look like a dumbass, meaning that whatever bad results were self inflicted.

People who participate in an activity for whatever reason will always find ways to justify the activity and will downplay the dangers.

e.g. Jumping off a mountain wearing a wingsuit is just so cool.

It does look cool btw. So does 20 inch biceps.[/quote]

Right but there would be plenty of evidence on anonymous boards of people suffering serious consequences. Or users in your gym talking.

If people are routinely suffering severe life altering side effects from prolonged steroid use, surely there would be some sort of trail leading us to it?

167

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]

Accutane and Rogaine.

Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.

[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]

There are definitely negative effects if abused like anything…

And yes you will most or a good portion of your gains if you are not an idiot and keep training/eating properly.

Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]

Didn’t you say earlier that you never come off? You “blast” and “cruise”? If that’s the case, how can you be sure about keeping/maintaining after a cycle?
[/quote]

Exactly.

The question is not whether you want to do a cycle or two. The question is if you want to spend the rest of your life dependent on injecting and taking underground drugs of questionable quality to keep looking and feeling like you want to.
[/quote]

boards and boards filled with user experiences.

168

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]

Accutane and Rogaine.

Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.

[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]

There are definitely negative effects if abused like anything…

And yes you will most or a good portion of your gains if you are not an idiot and keep training/eating properly.

Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]

Didn’t you say earlier that you never come off? You “blast” and “cruise”? If that’s the case, how can you be sure about keeping/maintaining after a cycle?
[/quote]

Because I have not always blasted and cruised. I only started the cruising a little under 1 year ago…

If you want to get really big blasting and cruising is the way to go imo. It is what all the top drug coaches recommend or most of them.

Without cruising you will lose more str/ size than with cruising. So why take two steps forward and 1 step back when you can just take .25 of a step back.

169

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]

What is your opinion on slin usage? Is it really that dangerous?
[/quote]

No, I don’t believe it is that dangerous if used correctly and you are a responsible person. You must plan your slin usage around your diet and not the other way around. That is where people tend to get in trouble.

Now, I have never used slin first hand, but my workout partner does.

170

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]

Accutane and Rogaine.

Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.

[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]

There are definitely negative effects if abused like anything…

And yes you will most or a good portion of your gains if you are not an idiot and keep training/eating properly.

Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]

Didn’t you say earlier that you never come off? You “blast” and “cruise”? If that’s the case, how can you be sure about keeping/maintaining after a cycle?
[/quote]

Exactly.

The question is not whether you want to do a cycle or two. The question is if you want to spend the rest of your life dependent on injecting and taking underground drugs of questionable quality to keep looking and feeling like you want to.
[/quote]

There are plenty of pharm grade quality drugs out there, if one has the connections and cash.

And no I don’t sell or share connections or anything related to the sort lol.

171

I don’t see why steroids are so demonized though.

How many of you smoke or drink on a regular basis?

The dangers and side effects of smoking are WELL DOCUMENTED with no positive side effects of other than what? A little nicotine high?

Hundreds of thousands die every year from smoking and drinking, but I don’t hear people squalling about that. But heaven forbid someone take some steroids!! Instant death omg omg omg.

And of course there are possible side effects maybe even fatal ones far down the road, but that is the case with any drug. Drugs are not candy and must be treated with respect/ responsibility, any drug.

172

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t see why steroids are so demonized though.

How many of you smoke or drink on a regular basis?

The dangers and side effects of smoking are WELL DOCUMENTED with no positive side effects of other than what? A little nicotine high?

Hundreds of thousands die every year from smoking and drinking, but I don’t hear people squalling about that. But heaven forbid someone take some steroids!! Instant death omg omg omg.
[/quote]

I don’t smoke or drink. That said, I’m honeslty kind of curious how you have not seen people squalling about the dangers of smoking. Where I have been, it’s been pretty common. We had those “the truth” ads that were very popular for a while, smoking is becoming increasingly more regulated wherever I go, and even e-cigs are not permitted in many establishments in CA. It might just be a regional thing, as most of my time has been on the west coast, but smoking is pretty demonized here.

Definitely agree with drinking though. It causes way more damage compared to the amount of negative press it receives.

173

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]fightnews wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]

Accutane and Rogaine.

Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.

[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]

There are definitely negative effects if abused like anything…

And yes you will most or a good portion of your gains if you are not an idiot and keep training/eating properly.

Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]

Didn’t you say earlier that you never come off? You “blast” and “cruise”? If that’s the case, how can you be sure about keeping/maintaining after a cycle?
[/quote]

Because I have not always blasted and cruised. I only started the cruising a little under 1 year ago…

If you want to get really big blasting and cruising is the way to go imo. It is what all the top drug coaches recommend or most of them.

Without cruising you will lose more str/ size than with cruising. So why take two steps forward and 1 step back when you can just take .25 of a step back.
[/quote]

So then you DO lose gains when off. So the best way to ensure you keep gains from doing steroids is to continue doing steroids while you wait to do more steroids. Makes sense.

174

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t see why steroids are so demonized though.

How many of you smoke or drink on a regular basis?

The dangers and side effects of smoking are WELL DOCUMENTED with no positive side effects of other than what? A little nicotine high?

Hundreds of thousands die every year from smoking and drinking, but I don’t hear people squalling about that. But heaven forbid someone take some steroids!! Instant death omg omg omg.
[/quote]

I don’t smoke or drink. That said, I’m honeslty kind of curious how you have not seen people squalling about the dangers of smoking. Where I have been, it’s been pretty common. We had those “the truth” ads that were very popular for a while, smoking is becoming increasingly more regulated wherever I go, and even e-cigs are not permitted in many establishments in CA. It might just be a regional thing, as most of my time has been on the west coast, but smoking is pretty demonized here.

Definitely agree with drinking though. It causes way more damage compared to the amount of negative press it receives.[/quote]

SO demonized that it gets multiple congressional hearings about its use? And was banned against the recommendations of the DEA, FDA, and AMA? Lol.

I have seen the groups against it and commercials etc, but it doesn’t get such a guttural reaction of disgust and horror that steroids do.

Agreed about the drinking, but at the end of the day the Gubament makes wads of cash off taxes from alcohol and tobacco.

175

It seems I misunderstood your statement. When you talked about people squealing, I thought you meant general public rather than congressional acts. Definitely concur that steroids are classified as a more dangerous substance.

176

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t see why steroids are so demonized though.[/quote]

Because it makes the best people better.

The demonization is normative behavior; the group is trying to maintain a certain status quo. A group of non-smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the smoker in the group; a group of smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the non-smoker. It’s less about the actual topic (tobacco, alcohol, sex, income level, diet, education), and more about maintaining cohesion of the group.

If you want to be bigger, better, stronger in a group of people who don’t really want those same things, they’ll work to keep you from being too different from them. And they’ll generally take as extreme of measures as they can, within certain limits.

On an individual level it might be primarily due to insecurities, but as a group, it’s really about preventing people from deviating too far from the status quo.

That’s one of the reasons anti-smoking and anti-drinking stuff has had a lot of trouble in certain areas… you pretty much have to create an “in-group” of people who don’t smoke or drink, in order to create a strong enough force to antagonize/persuade/legislate and change the overall behavior.

It’s much more a social phenomena than something logical. As long as you try to be “better” than a group, they’ll try to hold you back.

177

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t see why steroids are so demonized though.[/quote]

Because it makes the best people better.

The demonization is normative behavior; the group is trying to maintain a certain status quo. A group of non-smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the smoker in the group; a group of smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the non-smoker. It’s less about the actual topic (tobacco, alcohol, sex, income level, diet, education), and more about maintaining cohesion of the group.

If you want to be bigger, better, stronger in a group of people who don’t really want those same things, they’ll work to keep you from being too different from them. And they’ll generally take as extreme of measures as they can, within certain limits.

On an individual level it might be primarily due to insecurities, but as a group, it’s really about preventing people from deviating too far from the status quo.

That’s one of the reasons anti-smoking and anti-drinking stuff has had a lot of trouble in certain areas… you pretty much have to create an “in-group” of people who don’t smoke or drink, in order to create a strong enough force to antagonize/persuade/legislate and change the overall behavior.

It’s much more a social phenomena than something logical. As long as you try to be “better” than a group, they’ll try to hold you back.[/quote]

Are you planning on ever using PEDs LoRez?

178

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t see why steroids are so demonized though.[/quote]

Because it makes the best people better.

The demonization is normative behavior; the group is trying to maintain a certain status quo. A group of non-smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the smoker in the group; a group of smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the non-smoker. It’s less about the actual topic (tobacco, alcohol, sex, income level, diet, education), and more about maintaining cohesion of the group.

If you want to be bigger, better, stronger in a group of people who don’t really want those same things, they’ll work to keep you from being too different from them. And they’ll generally take as extreme of measures as they can, within certain limits.

On an individual level it might be primarily due to insecurities, but as a group, it’s really about preventing people from deviating too far from the status quo.

That’s one of the reasons anti-smoking and anti-drinking stuff has had a lot of trouble in certain areas… you pretty much have to create an “in-group” of people who don’t smoke or drink, in order to create a strong enough force to antagonize/persuade/legislate and change the overall behavior.

It’s much more a social phenomena than something logical. As long as you try to be “better” than a group, they’ll try to hold you back.[/quote]

I think the steroid demonization the West is just another part of our anti-masculine culture.

Women use birth control no one bats an eye lash.Men use steroids and you’re a cheating scumbag.

Masculinity and masculine behaviour must be controlled legally if necessary.

179

[quote]furo wrote:
Are you planning on ever using PEDs LoRez?
[/quote]

At this point, no.

If other people want to push the limits of human performance, I’m perfectly fine with it.

180

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I don’t see why steroids are so demonized though.[/quote]

Because it makes the best people better.

The demonization is normative behavior; the group is trying to maintain a certain status quo. A group of non-smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the smoker in the group; a group of smokers will persuade/tease/antagonize the non-smoker. It’s less about the actual topic (tobacco, alcohol, sex, income level, diet, education), and more about maintaining cohesion of the group.

If you want to be bigger, better, stronger in a group of people who don’t really want those same things, they’ll work to keep you from being too different from them. And they’ll generally take as extreme of measures as they can, within certain limits.

On an individual level it might be primarily due to insecurities, but as a group, it’s really about preventing people from deviating too far from the status quo.

That’s one of the reasons anti-smoking and anti-drinking stuff has had a lot of trouble in certain areas… you pretty much have to create an “in-group” of people who don’t smoke or drink, in order to create a strong enough force to antagonize/persuade/legislate and change the overall behavior.

It’s much more a social phenomena than something logical. As long as you try to be “better” than a group, they’ll try to hold you back.[/quote]

I think the steroid demonization the West is just another part of our anti-masculine culture.

Women use birth control no one bats an eye lash.Men use steroids and you’re a cheating scumbag.

Masculinity and masculine behaviour must be controlled legally if necessary.

[/quote]

How is it anti-masculine?

Hell, based on some of the replies not using and working out makes you more of a man.

181

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Women use birth control no one bats an eye lash.Men use steroids and you’re a cheating scumbag.

Masculinity and masculine behaviour must be controlled legally if necessary.

[/quote]

Plenty of people “bat an eye lash” at women using contraceptives. Less so in the present day, especially in First World countries, but it’s still an issue. If it were considered a PED, you don’t think people would care?

What athletic/performance advantage does birth control offer that is in any way similar to steroids?

If steroid use is against the rules in a given sport, then using steroids, by definition, makes you a cheater in that sport.

182

[quote]baugust wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Women use birth control no one bats an eye lash.Men use steroids and you’re a cheating scumbag.

Masculinity and masculine behaviour must be controlled legally if necessary.

[/quote]

Plenty of people “bat an eye lash” at women using contraceptives. Less so in the present day, especially in First World countries, but it’s still an issue. If it were considered a PED, you don’t think people would care?

What athletic/performance advantage does birth control offer that is in any way similar to steroids?

If steroid use is against the rules in a given sport, then using steroids, by definition, makes you a cheater in that sport.[/quote]

Well both are hormones just do different things.

I agree with the cheating aspect in sports, but honestly who cares? Let the sports police it within their own organization.

183

[quote]baugust wrote:

Plenty of people “bat an eye lash” at women using contraceptives. Less so in the present day, especially in First World countries, but it’s still an issue. [/quote]

A non-issue in the First World TODAY outside of the deeply religious.

[quote]baugust wrote:

If it were considered a PED, you don’t think people would care?

What athletic/performance advantage does birth control offer that is in any way similar to steroids? [/quote]

I’m not talking about in competition, I’m talking about a man using recreationally or even prescribed by a doctor. You are still branded a “cheater” or “loser” for using steroids by society.

Even prescribing testosterone to people who have low T or T in the lower range of normal is a hassle in many countries. The average doctor is simply hesitant to prescribe due to this stigma.

But yes I agree, if you’re part of an organization where PEDs are banned and you use, you’re a cheater.