[quote]therajraj wrote:
I can see the the assisted user who jumps into juicing very early into his lifting career the type who eventually gives it up.
I wouldn’t put the guy who trained naturally for 5 years first in the same boat.
[/quote]
Depends. What kind of progress has been made? I have seen guys at the gym look the same or slightly worse year after year.
Interesting thread Raj. The question of why has been kicked around a lot, so how about why not use (within boundaries, not like insane mega cycles)?
You seem to have all of the other training variables dialed in, so why not?
Maybe it’s a bit of a cop out, but it’s something I try not to think about. I prefer to live my life one day at a time and a PR’s a PR. As long as I’m still seeing some kind of progress I’m happy.
I know that AAS is a lifelong commitment for anyone serious about lifting, and I’m not comfortable making that commitment yet. Like someone mentioned earlier, I’m more intrigued by the feeling of AAS than anything. Maybe I’ll use one day, maybe I won’t, and maybe I’ll try a single cycle just so I can be satisfied in knowing what it feels like. I haven’t gotten to that point yet, so it’s not a concern right now.
I’m definitely open to TRT when I get on in years, though.
i dont think ive seen as much cluelessness in one place in a very long time
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i dont think ive seen as much cluelessness in one place in a very long time[/quote]
Enlighten us
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i dont think ive seen as much cluelessness in one place in a very long time[/quote]
Yes, please enlighten us. I love being enlightened.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m just now looking into going the assisted route (undecided just reading).
For those who’ve been lifting for at least 5 years, why did you choose to stay natural or start juicing?
[/quote]
Long term health plus being that big is not all its cracked up to be. Especially if you’re not competing. then you just carrying all that mass for nothing
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]
Accutane and Rogaine.
Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.
[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[quote]fightnews wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]
Accutane and Rogaine.
Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.
[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]
There are definitely negative effects if abused like anything…
And yes you will most or a good portion of your gains if you are not an idiot and keep training/eating properly.
Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.
[quote]fightnews wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m just now looking into going the assisted route (undecided just reading).
For those who’ve been lifting for at least 5 years, why did you choose to stay natural or start juicing?
[/quote]
Long term health plus being that big is not all its cracked up to be. Especially if you’re not competing. then you just carrying all that mass for nothing[/quote]
Who says you are carrying all that mass for nothing? And it isn’t all that it is cracked up to be?
Have you ever been that big?
[quote]fightnews wrote:
So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains?
[/quote]
My position is the negative side effects are highly manageable for most.
I don’t buy the gains disappear once off. I think that’s partially a scare tactic trying to keep people to stay away, not unlike roid rage.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i dont think ive seen as much cluelessness in one place in a very long time[/quote]
Yes, please enlighten us. I love being enlightened. [/quote]
ie all the retards who clearly have no actual knowledge of steroids or what they do. you dont lose all your gains, unless youre an idiot and do nothing post cycle. part of that i would guess is guys running shit like dbol, test, anadrol etc. that makes you hold a shitload of water, especially in the muscles. that LOOKS like muscle, so it seems like youre losing it post cycle. also the people who are treating steroids like they are literally poison.
also the people who think the best drug tested powerlifters are drug free. really? konstantinovs?
[quote]fightnews wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
The only thing that has stopped me is fear of acne and/or losing my hair.[/quote]
Accutane and Rogaine.
Hair loss only will speed up if you have a predisposition. If you don’t nothing will change.
[/quote] So basically your position is that there is no negative effects of steroids and you keep almost all of your gains? You must be a user no?
[/quote]
did he say that in that sentence?
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i dont think ive seen as much cluelessness in one place in a very long time[/quote]
Yes, please enlighten us. I love being enlightened. [/quote]
ie all the retards who clearly have no actual knowledge of steroids or what they do. you dont lose all your gains, unless youre an idiot and do nothing post cycle. part of that i would guess is guys running shit like dbol, test, anadrol etc. that makes you hold a shitload of water, especially in the muscles. that LOOKS like muscle, so it seems like youre losing it post cycle. also the people who are treating steroids like they are literally poison.
also the people who think the best drug tested powerlifters are drug free. really? konstantinovs? [/quote]
Haha well I agree with everything you said. Sorry brother thought you were going to be on the other side.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
i dont think ive seen as much cluelessness in one place in a very long time[/quote]
Yes, please enlighten us. I love being enlightened. [/quote]
ie all the retards who clearly have no actual knowledge of steroids or what they do. you dont lose all your gains, unless youre an idiot and do nothing post cycle. part of that i would guess is guys running shit like dbol, test, anadrol etc. that makes you hold a shitload of water, especially in the muscles. that LOOKS like muscle, so it seems like youre losing it post cycle. also the people who are treating steroids like they are literally poison.
also the people who think the best drug tested powerlifters are drug free. really? konstantinovs? [/quote]
Haha well I agree with everything you said. Sorry brother thought you were going to be on the other side.[/quote]
i thought so haha. i dont blame you, for every one person that half knows what they are talking about, theres 100 dumbasses who thinks they are basically injecting themselves with AIDS and liquid heart attack
I read the first few pages of responses but not all so some of this will be a recap.
1st and most important reason for me is that never in my training experience have I looked at my training, diet, sleep etc. and not had room for improvement. So I always think “if I really want to improve I should fix X” of course I would make better gains if I took shit but to be honest as long as I am progressing I am content.
(haven’t seen anyone mention this) but I have worked in gyms for at least 6 years and I am studying exercise physiology looking to work in the health field. I feel it would ruin my credibility with the generally natural clients that I work with.
Cost. pretty expensive here in Australia as far as I can tell.
Legality, The cops are really cracking down on the motorcycle gangs here in QLD and they supply a lot of the gear.
Health, a lot of people will tell you if you do x or y then you will be fine. At the end of the day you are fucking with some powerful hormones and the possible risks of long term side effects are real. There is just not enough evidence to be able to make an informed decision about the effect on long term health IMO. Hard to weigh the pros and cons and the risk to benefit when there is not much evidence.
Quality, unless I’m getting it from a Dr I wouldn’t feel very comfortable taking shit from people I’m not real close with.
Stigma, I know its lame but its something I don’t want to be associated with because of the stigma (this is low on the list of concerns)
A lot of these concerns could be worked around I guess if I had a really high drive to do it. Honestly though I would have to spend a lot of time educating myself about all these things and I would rather put that energy into less illicit means.
Nobody has mention Tate’s patriotism reference. No patriots here?
[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
Nobody has mention Tate’s patriotism reference. No patriots here?[/quote]
Somebody has to do it.
“The guy training for the Olympics can’t get his shit! Are you gonna be a fuckin’ patriot or not?”
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Now when you start talking gains from HGH/slin use… No.[/quote]
What is your opinion on slin usage? Is it really that dangerous?
Also keep in mind that negative side effects are probably under reported due to the human element of trying not to look like a dumbass, meaning that whatever bad results were self inflicted.
People who participate in an activity for whatever reason will always find ways to justify the activity and will downplay the dangers.
e.g. Jumping off a mountain wearing a wingsuit is just so cool.
It does look cool btw. So does 20 inch biceps.