Why Lift?

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
Other than elite athletes, what is weight training good for? Most of my friends that are exceptional athletes rarely lift, the ones that lift and are big are uncoordinated, unathletic, unflexible, out-of-shape useless tools.
[/quote]

Ever watch football? Ever watch the olympics? Ever watch baseball? Ever watch basketball? Ever watch any professional sport or sporting event? The athletes in all these sports or events have great muscular builds that they achieved by lifting weights. I would consider them all very athletic, wouldn’t you?

22

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
I myself fell into the trap of lifting to heavy while neglecting other aspects of fitness and it slowed me down for a while.

RJ [/quote]

There we go. You establish that it was not the lifting, but the neglect of other sport-specific quantities.

-Fireplug

23

I lift 'cause it freaks out the little old ladies who are holding onto the rails of the treadmill while they trudge along at all of 2 mph.

You can’t really beat the olympic lifts for that.

24

I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.

25

[quote]DooMMOoD wrote:
Pound4Pound wrote:

Ever watch football? Ever watch the olympics? Ever watch baseball? Ever watch basketball? Ever watch any professional sport or sporting event? The athletes in all these sports or events have great muscular builds that they achieved by lifting weights. I would consider them all very athletic, wouldn’t you?

[/quote]

Interesting topic for discussion, are the athletes you speak of better than those of 40 years ago who didn’t weight train?

World records have been broken but many advancements in nutrition, living conditions, easier work environments for athletes (if at all), drugs and advancements in training routines have know doubt lead to that. Not necessarily the weights.

Could Hassim ‘The Rock’ Ahmed have beaten Ali or Frazier? Doubt it.

Is Ben Wallace more athletic than Kareem Abdul Jabar or Kevin McHale?? FUCK NO!!!

Was Bonds more athletic than Mays, Ruth or Ted Williams…FUCK NO!!!

26

don’t challenge my awthoritayyyy!!!

27

[quote]baretta wrote:
I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.[/quote]

Some of the greatest hockey players of all time didn’t lift…Rocket Richard, Gretzky, #4 Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe etc etc

Specifically Gretzky. Do you think any of the stronger, weight trained modern hockey players are going to ever have 3 sonsecutive 200+ point seasons?? Nope.

Larry Bird, Kareem, McHale, Walton, West, Chamberlain…yeah they sucked. Too bad they didn’t lift weights so they could have been half descent.

Who’s the idiot now?

28

Your so right 100% if elite athletes are wrong, Infact the world of sports science is about to implode inlight of this thread

29

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
baretta wrote:
I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.

Some of the greatest hockey players of all time didn’t lift…Rocket Richard, Gretzky, #4 Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe etc etc

Specifically Gretzky. Do you think any of the stronger, weight trained modern hockey players are going to ever have 3 sonsecutive 200+ point seasons?? Nope.

Larry Bird, Kareem, McHale, Walton, West, Chamberlain…yeah they sucked. Too bad they didn’t lift weights so they could have been half descent.

Who’s the idiot now?

[/quote]

They were great DESPITE their lack of weight training. They were very talented, and trained a lot in their specific sport, but most likely, would have benefited from weight training.

Damn it! Now I’m feeding the trolls, just after I said not to!

30

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
baretta wrote:
I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.

Some of the greatest hockey players of all time didn’t lift…Rocket Richard, Gretzky, #4 Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe etc etc

Specifically Gretzky. Do you think any of the stronger, weight trained modern hockey players are going to ever have 3 sonsecutive 200+ point seasons?? Nope.

Larry Bird, Kareem, McHale, Walton, West, Chamberlain…yeah they sucked. Too bad they didn’t lift weights so they could have been half descent.

Who’s the idiot now?

[/quote]

You are, dumb ass.

Many lift for health, strength, looks, challenges, performance, but for me it is therapy.

When I go in the gym I drop all my worries. I drop the divorce, I drop the job, I drop the bills, and I focus on goals that I set for that day. I lift alone because want that focus.
I crank up the tunes and feel that pump and I go to that other place. It keeps me sane in some aspects.

I’m speaking “French” to you though because you haven’t got “in that zone” have you? You might want to try it before knocking it.

Theres more to it than what you think.

Idiot.

JW

31

I think you all should read todays STRONG WORDS quote and heed it’s advice

32

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
baretta wrote:
I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.

Some of the greatest hockey players of all time didn’t lift…Rocket Richard, Gretzky, #4 Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe etc etc

Specifically Gretzky. Do you think any of the stronger, weight trained modern hockey players are going to ever have 3 sonsecutive 200+ point seasons?? Nope.

Larry Bird, Kareem, McHale, Walton, West, Chamberlain…yeah they sucked. Too bad they didn’t lift weights so they could have been half descent.

Who’s the idiot now?

[/quote]

Gretzky never had to worry about being big or strong because Dave Semenko would beat the fuck out of anyone who even looked at Gretzky wrong. Plus, I’ve seen old videos of the Oilers locker room back then, and the team definitely did train with weights even back then.

All the rest of the guys came from times when goalies pads were half the size of what they are now and goalie skills were in their infancy(ie: none of the goalies ever left a standing position). None of them would put up the points they did if they played today.

Nice try, though.

33

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
baretta wrote:
I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.

Some of the greatest hockey players of all time didn’t lift…Rocket Richard, Gretzky, #4 Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe etc etc

Specifically Gretzky. Do you think any of the stronger, weight trained modern hockey players are going to ever have 3 sonsecutive 200+ point seasons?? Nope.

Larry Bird, Kareem, McHale, Walton, West, Chamberlain…yeah they sucked. Too bad they didn’t lift weights so they could have been half descent.

Who’s the idiot now?

[/quote]

Okay Pound4Pound, now you’re just being a jerk. No one is an idiot, but you’re not helping yourself here.

Sure, a lot of records have not moved forward too much in the past 40 years, and the increases cannot be indisputably traced to weight training, but weight training is necessary for many athletes.

Sure, the top of the pack may be just a little better now than they were then, but they’re just genetic freaks. I read Wilt could deadlift 600+ pounds the first time he tried @ 7ft. Were weight necessary for him, no. But they are necessary for the average joe.

And while the top of the pack has increased only slightly, the quality of athletes as a whole has increased tremendously. Weight training allows one to pass their natural limits and this allows people who would’ve failed miserably a few decades ago to compete at the highest levels.

The reason the men you listed were so great was because of the field they played on. If you took these untrained men and put them in their respective sports today, they would be good, but they would no longer be great.

So, for the most genetically gifted, weight training may be slowing them down, but for others, it is essential in becoming a better athlete.

RJ

34

[quote]RJ24 wrote:
weights are a good thing when used correctly, but they are not totally necessary and have the potential to decrease athletic performance if relied upon exclusively.
RJ [/quote]

uh…

weights are ‘totally’ necessary if you’re an olympic weightlifter…and olympic weightlifters rely on them exclusively…

35

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
baretta wrote:
I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.

Some of the greatest hockey players of all time didn’t lift…Rocket Richard, Gretzky, #4 Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe etc etc

Specifically Gretzky. Do you think any of the stronger, weight trained modern hockey players are going to ever have 3 sonsecutive 200+ point seasons?? Nope.

Larry Bird, Kareem, McHale, Walton, West, Chamberlain…yeah they sucked. Too bad they didn’t lift weights so they could have been half descent.

Who’s the idiot now?

[/quote]

Still you

Do you obviously think none of these guys didn’t have a training program that included some sort of weights? Obviously some great athletes are outside the norm, but for the most part, athletes need to train hard and work hard to get where they are. They just dont wake up one morning and be the best.

Sports have changed and athletes have become bigger, stronger and faster because of better training.

36

[quote]DPH wrote:
RJ24 wrote:
weights are a good thing when used correctly, but they are not totally necessary and have the potential to decrease athletic performance if relied upon exclusively.
RJ
[/quote]

So you’re saying if you quit practicing your sport completely and rely completely on weights you will decrease your athletic ability. REALLY!?!?!??

37

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
Other than elite athletes, what is weight training good for? Most of my friends that are exceptional athletes rarely lift, the ones that lift and are big are uncoordinated, unathletic, unflexible, out-of-shape useless tools.

It’s definately not to look good because it’s been proven that sprints and bodyweight excercises will build a proportioned, functional body that is far more attractive to the opposite sex than a deformed, out of shape, bulked up, unathletic weight lifting build.

It’s not for improved real-life functional strength for work etc. Most weight training simply does not carry over to real world activities and most really strong individuals such as farmers and lumber jacks never touch a weight.

So why do it, if the only thing you get from it is being able to say you lifted 10 more pounds than 2 months ago on a certain lift? In those two months you also gained a little weight, look a little worse and are a little more unathletic. YES!! Just what I want!!
[/quote]

  1. To look better to bang more chicks.
  2. to get stronger to be a better rock climber, snoboarder, wakeboarder and BJJ stylist
  3. To beat people up
38

[quote]baretta wrote:

Sports have changed and athletes have become bigger, stronger and faster because of better training.[/quote]

Bigger stronger, faster…and more cumbersome, less limber, less agile, less coordinated and less athletic. There is a trade-off for bigger and stronger my friends.

39

[quote]AgentOrange wrote:
Pound4Pound wrote:
baretta wrote:
I dont remember seeing any athlete of professional caliber that doesn’t incorporate some sort of weight program…hockey, basketball, football…etc.

Why do some people feel the need to come to a “bodybuilding think tank” and then continue to berate bodybuilding? I dont understand your motives, but your’re an idiot.

Some of the greatest hockey players of all time didn’t lift…Rocket Richard, Gretzky, #4 Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe etc etc

Specifically Gretzky. Do you think any of the stronger, weight trained modern hockey players are going to ever have 3 sonsecutive 200+ point seasons?? Nope.

Larry Bird, Kareem, McHale, Walton, West, Chamberlain…yeah they sucked. Too bad they didn’t lift weights so they could have been half descent.

Who’s the idiot now?

Gretzky never had to worry about being big or strong because Dave Semenko would beat the fuck out of anyone who even looked at Gretzky wrong. Plus, I’ve seen old videos of the Oilers locker room back then, and the team definitely did train with weights even back then.

All the rest of the guys came from times when goalies pads were half the size of what they are now and goalie skills were in their infancy(ie: none of the goalies ever left a standing position). None of them would put up the points they did if they played today.

Nice try, though.[/quote]

Very good post Mr Orange. I was just thinking and going to post that same thought but you beat me to it. Most of us T-Nation guys do think alike.

JW

40

[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
DPH wrote:
RJ24 wrote:
weights are a good thing when used correctly, but they are not totally necessary and have the potential to decrease athletic performance if relied upon exclusively.
RJ

So you’re saying if you quit practicing your sport completely and rely completely on weights you will decrease your athletic ability. REALLY!?!?!??[/quote]

Your logic makes me want to cry.