Why I Love Crossfit!

All right guys, I think that most people on the T-Nation boards have the wrong idea about what CrossFit is. CrossFit is a training program of course. But it is also considered a sport. I know this may sound crazy to most T-Nation elitist’s, but people train CrossFit to get better at CrossFit. The CrossFit games are getting bigger every year and competitions are poping up all over the world. When you enter a CrossFit competition you generally don’t know what the events will be, so obviously you can not periodize your training for events that you don’t know about until you get there.

Also, CrossFit has specific named workouts that allow for competition all year long. What is your Fran time, what is your Diane time? These are words uttered by CrossFitters every day around the world. We compete against eachother every time we go to the gym. Working out side by side to see who will give in to the pain first. It is a great feeling being able to compete every time you go to the gym. When I was a competitive powerlifter, I went to the gym, did squats monday, bench tuesday, crap on wednesday, and deads thursday, every f’ing week for years. Now I have a variety in my training that is refreshing and new evry time I workout.

Maybe it is “weak and gay” but I think triple ply, monolift, mile high squats are weak and gay. That is why I left that sport. Powerlifting was not always considered a sport, neither was weightlifting, sports are emerging all the time, which is a good thing. SOME of you guys sound like crotchety old men talking about the good old days when people only did 5x5 squats and were strong in only one domain. In CrossFit all athletic endeavors are embraced, that is what drew me to it. At my gym we have atlas stones, Big tires, farmers handles, truck pulling harnesses, kettlebells, bumpers, platforms, 8 squat racks, benches, 15 pullup bars, etc. To me that does not sound weak or gay.

For the record you can get strong doing CrossFit. If you can get strong from doing heavy squats and deadlifts every week than you can get strong from doing CrossFit, because that is what we do. I promise that running 800 meters every coulpe days will not make you weak. Sounds crazy I know.

how effective would the following be for someone who is already over 200lbs with visible abs at 5"10:

4 days a week

5/3/1 for squat bench dead press
followed by
20-30 minutes of wod style stuff using olympic rings/blast straps and calisthenics.

ie,

5/3/1 bench
followed by 5 rounds of the following:
max reps blast strap pushups
max reps blast strap body rows
metabolic activity like 400m run, row, burpees, flips, jumps etc.

It depends, there’s a lot of room for error. When I was building my hybrid program I injured myself, I think I may have torn my quads, from too much high intensity work.

I do a format based on ws4sb mixed with crossfit wods. I like a lot of variation in my conditioning workouts, I think it is very important for real conditioning, ie not being 1 dimensional.

I divide them up into: weight room based, body weight based, running based, and heavy(short, very heavy weight room based conditioning) wods. that is on top of my regular lifting. I also divide them into longer(chipper) and shorter (less than 15 minutes). I’ve found that the shorter ones are the more important for conditioning, which is probably counter intuitive to most people unless you really think about and understand the energy systems. You still need the longer ones, but they don’t need to be frequent, once a week to 2 weeks is fine.

Those are some general rules I use off the top of my head.

[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
It depends, there’s a lot of room for error. When I was building my hybrid program I injured myself, I think I may have torn my quads, from too much high intensity work.

I do a format based on ws4sb mixed with crossfit wods. I like a lot of variation in my conditioning workouts, I think it is very important for real conditioning, ie not being 1 dimensional.

I divide them up into: weight room based, body weight based, running based, and heavy(short, very heavy weight room based conditioning) wods. that is on top of my regular lifting. I also divide them into longer(chipper) and shorter (less than 15 minutes). I’ve found that the shorter ones are the more important for conditioning, which is probably counter intuitive to most people unless you really think about and understand the energy systems. You still need the longer ones, but they don’t need to be frequent, once a week to 2 weeks is fine.

Those are some general rules I use off the top of my head.[/quote]

see you yourself dont use just the workout of the day. My arguement wast that the WOD isn’t a great conditioning choice but if you are trying to get big and strong crossfit in and of itself is not the way to go. I agree if you are looking fora solid and fun routine to raise your heartrate, burn some calories, and improve your cardio at tehe end of a workout or on your day of lifting its great. as long as you dont hurt yourself.

On that how did you mix WS4SB with the WOD. It does sound interesing?

[quote]blackngrey609 wrote:
1000rippedbuff wrote:
It depends, there’s a lot of room for error. When I was building my hybrid program I injured myself, I think I may have torn my quads, from too much high intensity work.

I do a format based on ws4sb mixed with crossfit wods. I like a lot of variation in my conditioning workouts, I think it is very important for real conditioning, ie not being 1 dimensional.

I divide them up into: weight room based, body weight based, running based, and heavy(short, very heavy weight room based conditioning) wods. that is on top of my regular lifting. I also divide them into longer(chipper) and shorter (less than 15 minutes). I’ve found that the shorter ones are the more important for conditioning, which is probably counter intuitive to most people unless you really think about and understand the energy systems. You still need the longer ones, but they don’t need to be frequent, once a week to 2 weeks is fine.

Those are some general rules I use off the top of my head.

see you yourself dont use just the workout of the day. My arguement wast that the WOD isn’t a great conditioning choice but if you are trying to get big and strong crossfit in and of itself is not the way to go. I agree if you are looking fora solid and fun routine to raise your heartrate, burn some calories, and improve your cardio at tehe end of a workout or on your day of lifting its great. as long as you dont hurt yourself.

On that how did you mix WS4SB with the WOD. It does sound interesing?[/quote]

Too many people think that crossfit is just doing the posted WOD. The mainsite WOD is just an example of how it can be done. I have my brand of crossfit, it’s how I do it. I would define doing crossfit as having goals in weight training, gymnastics and bodyweight movements, and having some focus on the named crossfit workouts. Many of my clientel want to do the mainsite WOD, which is fine for most people’s purpose. I’ve seen a lot of people do very well conditioning and strength wise just by doing that. My personal opinion, You do better at everything with a little narrower focus on lifts and gymnastics exercises and a broad spectrum of conditioning work outs.

Now to say getting you’re not going to get big and strong on the mainsite WOD, true, it isn’t the goal of that program. Some people do (they have the right genes). For me, muscle size and aesthetics aren’t something I train or train people for. Not that we don’t have that, but we focus on performance and eating healthy, and those that put a good amount of effort in those things will build a nice physique as a consequence of that. For me, it is much more satisfying (and effective) than when I used to do bodybuilding workouts in college. I’m stronger now, and much leaner, though I weigh less. I would probably allow myself to get bigger, but I compete in MMA and jiu-jitsu and have weight classes I have to make. For me, vanity is not something desireable to train for.

WS4SB is a program I’ve liked since it was first put out by defranco, and I wanted to incorporate his methods (and those of westside barbell) into a more conditioning focused program. I think much of westside’s methods are very useful, but I use things from a lot of coaches to build my programs.

I’ve got several templates, but what’s worked REALLY well is my newest template:

Monday: ME, both upper and lower body. I also do plyometrics between the lifts(complex training) which has worked really well for my athletic endeavors.
On this day I train the squat or variation of the squat (front, back, box, etc) deadlift or variation (deadlift, snatch grip, deficit, rack pull, etc), an upperbody push (press, bench press, dip and variants) and weighted chinups or pullups. I do these for a max set of usually 2-5, but I’ve done up to 8 reps depending on goals and what works for the trainee. I sometimes will do a push and pull assistance exercise for 1-2 sets of 8-12 reps. We always choose exercise variations that focus on weaknesses in our main lifts (Back squat, deadlift, press, bench press, olympic lifts).

Tuesday: conditioning workout (named crossfit wod). This will usually be a shorter crossfit WOD, but it varies depending on the trainee’s recovery ability and the intensity of the work out. Sometimes we follow this with a finisher (car push, tabata squats or pushups, or other finishers I use). This varies with the workout to prevent overtraining or overuse injuries.

Wednesday: Grip work and mini-workout. 2-3 grip exercises focusing on different types of grip strength (pinch, crushing, wrist, etc). Then a mini workout and finisher which are focused on weaknesses in a type of conditioning (EX, if you have a weak area in weight room based workouts or specific exercises you will do a VERY short variation using that mode of training).

Thursday: Dynamic effort lower body and repetition upperbody. Dynamic effort lower body will usually be an olympic lift variant or DE squats sets and reps vary 5x2, 5x3, 10x2, experiment with what works for you. This is followed by repetition effort for the posterior chain (RDL, GHR, etc) we do these for max reps with one minute of rest between sets. On things like the RDL I usually keep them around 10 reps for each set and add weight each week. Upper body repetition is usually kept at 1 push and 1 pull. These can be bodyweight gymnastics exercises (ring pushups/dips, Lpullups, front lever rows, etc) or weight training moves which will be assistance exercises focusing on weak points of the main lifts (closegrip bench, dumbbell presses, bent over row, etc)

Friday: grip work and mini workout/finisher

Saturday: named crossfit workout

It’ll vary a little between trainees, but this is the general template that has been working very well. You’ll see it is still quite different from WS4SB, but the basic stuff is there. It must be condensed and less volume to make room for the amount of conditioning we do. But this has built very well rounded trainees for me. My guys on this program all lift a lot and have great conditioning. I have one girl on this right now and she can deadlift 225 and squat 145 (DEEP!) for reps at a bodyweight of 125 and she smokes most guys in named workouts, She even does the guys RX for a lot of the named crossfit workouts.

I also wanted to say, because I think it got lost in that long post, that for people who bitch about crossfit, if you don’t like it, don’t do it! If it doesn’t fit into your goals, don’t do it! At my gym, if you don’t want that, then I don’t want you at my gym. In fact, I’ve had people tell me that they wanted something different and I’ll tell them they’ll be happier at Gold’s or Bally’s if that’s what they want.

wow… i love like the corny body builders bitching about the hypertrophy… like the dudes at my gym who are twice my size and as strong or weaker… i have a new one for you dudes crossfitfootball.com forging powerful athletes

[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
I also wanted to say, because I think it got lost in that long post, that for people who bitch about crossfit, if you don’t like it, don’t do it! If it doesn’t fit into your goals, don’t do it! At my gym, if you don’t want that, then I don’t want you at my gym. In fact, I’ve had people tell me that they wanted something different and I’ll tell them they’ll be happier at Gold’s or Bally’s if that’s what they want.[/quote]

Now thats not to bad. I see how you use the max effort days as well as dynamic from defranco’s program. the use the crossfit as conditioning. Not bad. I’ve done similiar when training for grappling and it was worked well. our conditioning days consisted of lots of partner carries and stairs, brutal to say the least. I was asked by a buddy if i would play on his rugby team and i told him to ive me time to change my training. I was doing straight strength training but am now adding explosive movements and qiuck sprints and stairs. still trying to come up with a good mix.

[quote]jesse s wrote:
wow… i love like the corny body builders bitching about the hypertrophy… like the dudes at my gym who are twice my size and as strong or weaker… i have a new one for you dudes crossfitfootball.com forging powerful athletes[/quote]

doesnt make any sense to me what so ever. Plus i dont understand how he give weights to use for reps or time. Last time i looked around there are a lot of different size guys on a football team all with different capabilities. If you could explain this i would be happy. Plus if your in season i remember getting enough training during practice. off season was when i used templated to get bigger, stronger, faster.

[quote]jesse s wrote:
wow… i love like the corny body builders bitching about the hypertrophy… like the dudes at my gym who are twice my size and as strong or weaker… i have a new one for you dudes crossfitfootball.com forging less powerful athletes[/quote]
Fixed

[quote]blackngrey609 wrote:
jesse s wrote:
wow… i love like the corny body builders bitching about the hypertrophy… like the dudes at my gym who are twice my size and as strong or weaker… i have a new one for you dudes crossfitfootball.com forging powerful athletes

doesnt make any sense to me what so ever. Plus i dont understand how he give weights to use for reps or time. Last time i looked around there are a lot of different size guys on a football team all with different capabilities. If you could explain this i would be happy. Plus if your in season i remember getting enough training during practice. off season was when i used templated to get bigger, stronger, faster.[/quote]

An interesting read for anyone who thinks crossfitfootball.com is a good idea:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=104174&tid=55
and
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=104249&tid=55

People should also ask themselves if intensive aerobic/lactic work is justified in training for football.

Crossfit (in general) is a great idea to get people exercising. But athletes should be following a training plan that is sport specific. Not a GPP plan with some extra weights thrown in.

I’ve never done crossfit football, nor have I looked much at the site. I’ve also never played football past high school, my sports experience is limited to wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and muay thai. When I wrestled all of us did pretty much the same strength and conditioning program regardless of sport. Our sport specific stuff came during practice.

Something like Defranco’s is more established and proven, but I can understand how the intensive anaerobic training could potentially be good for a football player, especially with the heavy weights. Players often exert force against other players, regardless of position. I had the privledge of meeting Welbourne and talk to him about crossfit football before it was ever put up on the website. I think it could end up being a good program, but it hasn’t been around long enough to prove it can do the job.

On the otherhand, I think a lot of their workouts would be really good if you’re looking to become a big, strong physical beast. I often add in extra heavy conditioning workouts into my program. I’ll have to dig through the football website to see which workouts I’d like to steal from them. I’m a whore like that.

[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
I’ve never done crossfit football, nor have I looked much at the site. I’ve also never played football past high school, my sports experience is limited to wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and muay thai. When I wrestled all of us did pretty much the same strength and conditioning program regardless of sport. Our sport specific stuff came during practice.

Something like Defranco’s is more established and proven, but I can understand how the intensive anaerobic training could potentially be good for a football player, especially with the heavy weights. Players often exert force against other players, regardless of position. I had the privledge of meeting Welbourne and talk to him about crossfit football before it was ever put up on the website. I think it could end up being a good program, but it hasn’t been around long enough to prove it can do the job.

On the otherhand, I think a lot of their workouts would be really good if you’re looking to become a big, strong physical beast. I often add in extra heavy conditioning workouts into my program. I’ll have to dig through the football website to see which workouts I’d like to steal from them. I’m a whore like that.[/quote]

The kind of workouts given on that site would be great for something like wrestling or jiu-jitsu.
But, consider this: the average football play lasts 4.5 seconds. There is then a rest period of ~35 seconds. This is repeated on average maybe 8 times before players leave the field.

Given that type of movement, do you really think training the lactic anaerobic system heavily is an efficient use of the athlete’s time/resources? Do you really think something like this:
“Complete 6 rounds of:
As many reps as possible in 15 seconds of Deadlifts - 275 lbs
Rest 45 seconds
As many reps as possbile in 15 seconds of Burpees
Rest 45 seconds”
is specific to football?

I like crossfit in principle. When my sister came to me for exercise advice I told her to go to crossfit.com. The problem arrises when it tries to be something it isn’t - sport specific. Many of the workouts in the football program appear to be included to make the program resemble crossfit rather from taking into consideration the energy needs of a football player.

[quote]OBoile wrote:
1000rippedbuff wrote:
I’ve never done crossfit football, nor have I looked much at the site. I’ve also never played football past high school, my sports experience is limited to wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and muay thai. When I wrestled all of us did pretty much the same strength and conditioning program regardless of sport. Our sport specific stuff came during practice.

Something like Defranco’s is more established and proven, but I can understand how the intensive anaerobic training could potentially be good for a football player, especially with the heavy weights. Players often exert force against other players, regardless of position. I had the privledge of meeting Welbourne and talk to him about crossfit football before it was ever put up on the website. I think it could end up being a good program, but it hasn’t been around long enough to prove it can do the job.

On the otherhand, I think a lot of their workouts would be really good if you’re looking to become a big, strong physical beast. I often add in extra heavy conditioning workouts into my program. I’ll have to dig through the football website to see which workouts I’d like to steal from them. I’m a whore like that.

The kind of workouts given on that site would be great for something like wrestling or jiu-jitsu.
But, consider this: the average football play lasts 4.5 seconds. There is then a rest period of ~35 seconds. This is repeated on average maybe 8 times before players leave the field.

Given that type of movement, do you really think training the lactic anaerobic system heavily is an efficient use of the athlete’s time/resources? Do you really think something like this:
“Complete 6 rounds of:
As many reps as possible in 15 seconds of Deadlifts - 275 lbs
Rest 45 seconds
As many reps as possbile in 15 seconds of Burpees
Rest 45 seconds”
is specific to football?

I like crossfit in principle. When my sister came to me for exercise advice I told her to go to crossfit.com. The problem arrises when it tries to be something it isn’t - sport specific. Many of the workouts in the football program appear to be included to make the program resemble crossfit rather from taking into consideration the energy needs of a football player.[/quote]

Crossfit Football is a well thought out sight for Football players. It is focused on explosive and powerful movements. Obviously I do not need to explain why a deadlift is powerful, the amount of thrust through the hips is perfect for someone to improve their hitting power on the field. The burbee is another perfect football movement as you must be able to rapidly recover if knocked down the agility gained in a simple but exhausting burpee movement translates well onto a football field. Most of the workouts they do on the sight are heavy with a combo of endurance. Every coach wants players to have power and sustainability during a game. There is a reason why many Division 1 programs and NFL players are incorporating Crossfit Football as a standard.

Again there are many great programs out there just depends on your goals.

[quote]Backo wrote:
OBoile wrote:
1000rippedbuff wrote:
I’ve never done crossfit football, nor have I looked much at the site. I’ve also never played football past high school, my sports experience is limited to wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and muay thai. When I wrestled all of us did pretty much the same strength and conditioning program regardless of sport. Our sport specific stuff came during practice.

Something like Defranco’s is more established and proven, but I can understand how the intensive anaerobic training could potentially be good for a football player, especially with the heavy weights. Players often exert force against other players, regardless of position. I had the privledge of meeting Welbourne and talk to him about crossfit football before it was ever put up on the website. I think it could end up being a good program, but it hasn’t been around long enough to prove it can do the job.

On the otherhand, I think a lot of their workouts would be really good if you’re looking to become a big, strong physical beast. I often add in extra heavy conditioning workouts into my program. I’ll have to dig through the football website to see which workouts I’d like to steal from them. I’m a whore like that.

The kind of workouts given on that site would be great for something like wrestling or jiu-jitsu.
But, consider this: the average football play lasts 4.5 seconds. There is then a rest period of ~35 seconds. This is repeated on average maybe 8 times before players leave the field.

Given that type of movement, do you really think training the lactic anaerobic system heavily is an efficient use of the athlete’s time/resources? Do you really think something like this:
“Complete 6 rounds of:
As many reps as possible in 15 seconds of Deadlifts - 275 lbs
Rest 45 seconds
As many reps as possbile in 15 seconds of Burpees
Rest 45 seconds”
is specific to football?

I like crossfit in principle. When my sister came to me for exercise advice I told her to go to crossfit.com. The problem arrises when it tries to be something it isn’t - sport specific. Many of the workouts in the football program appear to be included to make the program resemble crossfit rather from taking into consideration the energy needs of a football player.

Crossfit Football is a well thought out sight for Football players. It is focused on explosive and powerful movements. Obviously I do not need to explain why a deadlift is powerful, the amount of thrust through the hips is perfect for someone to improve their hitting power on the field. The burbee is another perfect football movement as you must be able to rapidly recover if knocked down the agility gained in a simple but exhausting burpee movement translates well onto a football field. Most of the workouts they do on the sight are heavy with a combo of endurance. Every coach wants players to have power and sustainability during a game. There is a reason why many Division 1 programs and NFL players are incorporating Crossfit Football as a standard.

Again there are many great programs out there just depends on your goals. [/quote]

name the players and teams if you dont mind?

I 2nd the annoyance factor. There are some real irritating know-it-alls who practice Crossfit that talk like it’s the bottom line when it comes to exercise.

I’ve been following them since they were a flegling outfit, trained using their methodology, tried the Zone and Paleo diet thing, visited the message boards to gain some insight, and over time I grew increasingly tired of all their debates about the functionality of exercises i.e. bench press, the strictness or lack thereof of exercises i.e. controlled pull-ups vs kipping pullups, and the general tone that they’re on some other-worldly shit.

Nigga, please!

[quote]Backo wrote:
OBoile wrote:
1000rippedbuff wrote:
I’ve never done crossfit football, nor have I looked much at the site. I’ve also never played football past high school, my sports experience is limited to wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and muay thai. When I wrestled all of us did pretty much the same strength and conditioning program regardless of sport. Our sport specific stuff came during practice.

Something like Defranco’s is more established and proven, but I can understand how the intensive anaerobic training could potentially be good for a football player, especially with the heavy weights. Players often exert force against other players, regardless of position. I had the privledge of meeting Welbourne and talk to him about crossfit football before it was ever put up on the website. I think it could end up being a good program, but it hasn’t been around long enough to prove it can do the job.

On the otherhand, I think a lot of their workouts would be really good if you’re looking to become a big, strong physical beast. I often add in extra heavy conditioning workouts into my program. I’ll have to dig through the football website to see which workouts I’d like to steal from them. I’m a whore like that.

The kind of workouts given on that site would be great for something like wrestling or jiu-jitsu.
But, consider this: the average football play lasts 4.5 seconds. There is then a rest period of ~35 seconds. This is repeated on average maybe 8 times before players leave the field.

Given that type of movement, do you really think training the lactic anaerobic system heavily is an efficient use of the athlete’s time/resources? Do you really think something like this:
“Complete 6 rounds of:
As many reps as possible in 15 seconds of Deadlifts - 275 lbs
Rest 45 seconds
As many reps as possbile in 15 seconds of Burpees
Rest 45 seconds”
is specific to football?

I like crossfit in principle. When my sister came to me for exercise advice I told her to go to crossfit.com. The problem arrises when it tries to be something it isn’t - sport specific. Many of the workouts in the football program appear to be included to make the program resemble crossfit rather from taking into consideration the energy needs of a football player.

Crossfit Football is a well thought out sight for Football players. It is focused on explosive and powerful movements. Obviously I do not need to explain why a deadlift is powerful, the amount of thrust through the hips is perfect for someone to improve their hitting power on the field. The burbee is another perfect football movement as you must be able to rapidly recover if knocked down the agility gained in a simple but exhausting burpee movement translates well onto a football field. Most of the workouts they do on the sight are heavy with a combo of endurance. Every coach wants players to have power and sustainability during a game. There is a reason why many Division 1 programs and NFL players are incorporating Crossfit Football as a standard.

Again there are many great programs out there just depends on your goals. [/quote]

Explain to me (using the correct equation for power) how a deadlift is a “powerful” movement. Also pay particularly attention to the loading, as 275 lbs. can produce a very different loading effect depending on the athletes strength level. Please also explain why 15 seconds is a reasonable duration given the average length of a football play.

Please also explain how it is beneficial to practice agility in an exhausted state (particulary a state that won’t essentially never be reached on the football field).

Finally, please explain why dedicating a large amount of the athlete’s resources (i.e. recovery ability) to training an energy system (I’ll leave it to you to figure out which one) that is not commonly stressed during a football game is a good idea. Specifically, what physiological adaptation are you aiming for here?

It seems to me like this workout may be beneficial if a team faced twelve 15 second plays in a row. I’m guessing that would be pretty difficult to do short of producing big play after big play that gets called back due to penalties. I haven’t seen that happen yet this season… have you?

Conditioning is more important in programs than absolute strength. Don’t get me wrong, both should be balanced, but as in any sport, the more conditioned athletes can go the extra quarter!!!

[quote]deadlift425 wrote:
Conditioning is more important in programs than absolute strength. Don’t get me wrong, both should be balanced, but as in any sport, the more conditioned athletes can go the extra quarter!!![/quote]

Huh? What does this statement have to do with loving crossfit?

[quote]OBoile wrote:
deadlift425 wrote:
Conditioning is more important in programs than absolute strength. Don’t get me wrong, both should be balanced, but as in any sport, the more conditioned athletes can go the extra quarter!!!

Huh? What does this statement have to do with loving crossfit?[/quote]

I think he’s talking about the crossfit football thing