Can’t dispute that and I agree fully. I’m just saying in the context of the sexual side effects of a drug, a psych isn’t going to offer much in the way of primary treatment. They might offer an SSRI, which is certainly NOT going to help with sexual side effects, and no amount of cognitive behavioral therapy is going to make a dude who can’t ejaculate because of a chemical have an orgasm.
High serotonin.
Serotonin requires free T to, so do “Neurotransmitters”. Low T can equal low any or all of these, having plenty of T can trigger an overabundance of production. Mental health thus comes into play, from a biochemistry standpoint.
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My argument is that, generally speaking, of something has been wrong for multiple years and each and every avenue of the hormone solution has been looked down then it’s not unreasonable to entertain the notion that there’s more to it than just getting the “right” dose of testosterone. Way, waaaaaay too many guys see trt as a panacea. Very few of us change our fundamental problems after we go on. For most it’s just a very useful tool to get us to where we want to be. That’s all I’m saying and I’d like to see more of that angle discussed when it’s warranted.
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That’s good to hear. Without that you have nothing else. I’m glad that you don’t have those issues because I would never wish them on anyone.
So in an effort to put this thread back on a beneficial track: There definitely are cases where more is not better when it comes to test, especially with respect to libido. Is this because, as I think a couple in this thread have implied, because of increased serotonin from the test, at least, in cases where E2 is remains in the appropriate ratio and has not been driven down by AI usage? If increased serotonin is the issue, is there an effective way to limit it, so as to obtain the benefits of additional test without the negative impact on libido?
And as a follow up: Does more FT mean greater libido in all cases? If some attribute lack of libido on high levels of test to low SHBG, then it would seem that greater FT does NOT always equal greater libido.
My understanding is this: increased estrogen means increased serotonin. That’s why many have issues when e2 rises.
I know this: on 400mg test, it’s damn hard to orgasm. On less, it’s way way easier.
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Correct. But hormones are what drive the neurotransmitter production or lack
Thereof.
So at the root, it’s hormonal.
What? I pay like 30$ e7w for my testosterone… Doctors appointments are also subsidised. Are you going private/paying out of pocket.
I may have limited knowledge when it comes to the subject of TRT, but it sounds reasonable that a discussion about E2 is warranted for some guys. If E2 plays an important role in physiological health, it stands to reason it can also be wrong/deficient/low/high like other hormones imbalances. But I’m finding people are extremely against talking about trying to control it though. Never seen more angry threads on here than E2 threads.
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There’s a weird vibe to e2 discussions. I think people get bogged down by numbers and ignore symptoms (or lack thereof in some cases). There’s no need to be dogmatic about it. I feel great with higher e2, the next guy could feel terrible with the same number. Ultimately every person needs to treat their body uniquely.
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Listen. Regarding serotonin:
I remember using “5htp” before, years ago, for energy. It worked, but it killed my sexual desire. This was supposed to raise ur serotonin, atleast temporarily. I wasnt on TRT during that time and my libido was great (not on 5htp, tho).
Maybe that is the key? Estrogen increase serotonin too high which kills our libido?
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Do you have anything that proves the whole estrogen increases serotonin thing?
There aren’t a whole lotta studies dealing w sex and serotonin etx. It’s anecdotal. But simple
Google will
Tell you estrogen modifies serotonin production. This is basic. Unless you’re Yeti.
Just bc a study doesn’t exist yet doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Serotonin is the inhibitor neuro. Meaning it
Slows drive and orgasm. Women usually have higher serotonin levels. And also less libido most of the time. And less likely to
Cum.
Think about it.
I’m
Not sold on e2 running rampant is key.
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While I’m on it, I’ll throw this out. Newer research is indicating that what we refer to as neurotransmitters, are in fact not neurotransmitters. They are all over the body and fulfil a role that is not yet understood, but the leaning is toward being just “Transmitters”, as in they are being used for transmission of signals of different kinds in all different tissues and are being produced in a lot of places - not just the brain.
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I can find pretty much anything I want just googling though so that’s not very convincing.
I was more curious if there was any real scientific basis of how one impacts the other, regardless of there being a full blown study on it. Just a theory that estrogen impacts this, this impacts that, that impacts serotonin and there we at least have a possible way to get from A to B
I would venture that no study exists as of yet. It would be logical, though, that different people produce things at different rates and this is highlighted when one imbalance is corrected but not others. The effects of serotonin are studied, and known. Taking 5-HTP will crank serotonin production, which comes at the expense of catecholamine production as they live on opposite sides of the production axis. So, if someone has a problem producing catecholamines, but suddenly has plenty of raw material for production, or maybe his axis is skewed, it could cause problems.
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Just google estrogen and serotonin. Literally a ton of studies and links showing estrogen and it’s effect in serotonin production.
There might not be a causal relationship between serotonin and sexual side effects, definitely a strong correlation though. I’d wager people have made the link because most of the research surrounding the topic is from SSRI use, as all SSRI’s function by increasing serotonin and most can cause these exact sexual side effects in roughly 30 to 50 percent of users. However, the question becomes is it the increase of serotonin that does it, vs some other aspect of the drug. SSRI induced sexual sides don’t discriminate between men and women, and they also don’t effect everybody. They can also increase sexual desire in some lucky users. Plus, other anti depressants and some anti anxiety medications that don’t touch serotonin can also cause the same side effects.
It could literally be just the increased E2, or the ratio of it compared to some aspect of T. My friend got prostate cancer and his treatment involved medications to basically flatten his testosterone, while also taking estrogen. Aside from basically starting to transition into a woman, he lost all sexual function pretty fast and its long gone in every aspect.
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This can be pretty complicated. How each of us processes things can vary pretty widely. I have genetic mutations at CYP2D6 - for instance - which affect my ability to process 25% of medicines, among other things. Caffeine does not function in me as it does in most most people, and I am essentially immune to anti-psychotics and tranquilizers. Haldol, codeine, morphine - none of those things dent me at all. 5 years ago I would simply be dismissed as a whack job or something for suggesting that, now the science is explaining why those things do not impact me. What do we really know about what happens in the testosterone cycle and the production of Serotonin? Scientisits tend to be like Donald Trump, they know a tiny little bit but think that that makes them an all-knowing expert somehow. We are all guinea pigs, and Science knows a lot less than it projects it’s knowledge to be. There is plenty to be understood just from analysing some of the studies already out there nad connecting some dots.
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