If you have trouble with chins or dips just buy an Iron Woody band to assist you. Like benching or squatting, you can have more assistance at the bottom and less and less as you become more mechanically advantageous.
Chin/dip assistance machines are flawed because they don’t offer this ^^^^^. That’s also why most people who use them clank the weight at the top of the movement. Aslo, chin/dips are $1,500+ where a band can be $15+. Simple decision.
Forgot pic to illustrate.
even fat powerlifters like myself can do pullups:)
feel the burn…
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
even fat powerlifters like myself can do pullups:)
feel the burn…
Impressive…for a fattie powerlifter. 
Funny how you are one of the only guys on here, who actually backs up his posts with vids.
Well played.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Burst wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.
Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.
if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.
Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.
Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.
I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]
i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.
you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.
If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]
This forum is not based on what most weekend warriors should do. I’m not a weekend warrior…yet you just told people that every big guy you see who avoids pull ups is doing so because they are HARD.
You wrote that. You did not qualify your statement to mean “only weekend warriors who aren’t big avoid exercises because they are hard”.
My response is educated as well.[/quote]
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
most people don’t do pullups because they are hard. it’s much easier to use a machine. that also goes for why most people don’t do squats or deads. I think it’s human nature to find the path of least resistance… and that path usually has a cable and pully attached to it:)[/quote]
He never said every big guy avoids hard work.
Strawwwww mannnnnnnnnnnn.[/quote]
This is a bodybuilding forum. Why would we be discussing what average people who aren’t serious are doing at all? MM has also made it very clear in past posts that he looks down on machines even though they have helped build many impressive physiques.
The truth is, if you get back pain from doing deadlifts and you keep doing them, you are dumbass no matter what powerlifters on the internet write.[/quote]
Completely agree. Just bringing attention to an argument that was made against a statement that wasn’t.
Speaking of weighted dips and shoulder inflammation: putting weighted dips very last, once everything is warm, has worked well for me. I have been doing them consistently for at least 8 years with well over my bodyweight added and have never had a shoulder injury specifically from them and i would attribute this to doing them last. It seems they are one of those lifts that works for some but others just cant do without pain, kiupright rows also come to mind.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Funny how you are one of the only guys on here, who actually backs up his posts with vids.
Well played.[/quote]
I got called names and swore at when I was backing up what I said with them…
Anywho.
I can’t do regular dips due to shoulder pain. I read a couple stories like Matty’s and backed off as soon as I felt discomfort. Plate loaded dip works pretty well, but I can’t let it come up too far.
I suck at pullups. That is all.
[quote]kirchman wrote:
Speaking of weighted dips and shoulder inflammation: putting weighted dips very last, once everything is warm, has worked well for me. I have been doing them consistently for at least 8 years with well over my bodyweight added and have never had a shoulder injury specifically from them and i would attribute this to doing them last. It seems they are one of those lifts that works for some but others just cant do without pain, kiupright rows also come to mind.[/quote]
I always warm up for any of these exercises and dips are usually done after at least two other exercises. Still, once you start going REALLY heavy, you may have to back off of your frequency. That was why I mentioned the weight I was using when I noticed it. If you are doing 2 plates a side, I doubt you will have much of a problem.
I tried training triceps more often because that is what works for me to bring up a lagging body part…so I did them twice a week to start and it fucked my shoulder up.
Upright rows I just something I would never recommend unless you just really think they work better for traps for some reason. I doubt it. Flyes work better for the lateral head of the delts and shrugs work better for traps.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Funny how you are one of the only guys on here, who actually backs up his posts with vids.
Well played.[/quote]
I got called names and swore at when I was backing up what I said with them…
Anywho.
[/quote]
LOL.
In bodybuilding though, the evidence is in what your method has BUILT for you, not in the performance of an exercise. If that exercise isn’t making you built better than other movements, dump it.
Not to stray too off topic, but upright rows for the most part get vilified for causing shoulder pain, I always found them to be benefical in trap development espescially as a finisher. If held with a real narrow grip like I see many people do no doubt this is gonna fuck your shoulders however with a shoulder width grip I get no pain.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Funny how you are one of the only guys on here, who actually backs up his posts with vids.
Well played.[/quote]
I got called names and swore at when I was backing up what I said with them…
[/quote]
Was not referring to you specifically Beans…just a general observation.
Meat walks the talk…was just giving respect.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Funny how you are one of the only guys on here, who actually backs up his posts with vids.
Well played.[/quote]
I got called names and swore at when I was backing up what I said with them…
Anywho.
[/quote]
LOL.
In bodybuilding though, the evidence is in what your method has BUILT for you, not in the performance of an exercise. If that exercise isn’t making you built better than other movements, dump it.[/quote]
Yeah I know…
I just need to film in certain shirts, and take off the hoodie I’ve grown fond of.
To comment on the upright rows. I don’t like the BB version, but I can get a good MM connection if I’m already a bit spent from other lifts if I do a lateral raise/upright row hybrid with DB’s.
Also, one advantage pulldowns have, like you had mentioned, is to truely target the lats. I feel like pullups would be a great all around back mass builder, while with pulldowns I can start to pump my lats before I even do a rep. I’ve “found my groove” so to speak, and my lats are starting to bust a size 50 suit coat. I still have a ways to go, but VGrip pulldowns work well for me, width wise.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]kirchman wrote:
Speaking of weighted dips and shoulder inflammation: putting weighted dips very last, once everything is warm, has worked well for me. I have been doing them consistently for at least 8 years with well over my bodyweight added and have never had a shoulder injury specifically from them and i would attribute this to doing them last. It seems they are one of those lifts that works for some but others just cant do without pain, kiupright rows also come to mind.[/quote]
I always warm up for any of these exercises and dips are usually done after at least two other exercises. Still, once you start going REALLY heavy, you may have to back off of your frequency. That was why I mentioned the weight I was using when I noticed it. If you are doing 2 plates a side, I doubt you will have much of a problem.
I tried training triceps more often because that is what works for me to bring up a lagging body part…so I did them twice a week to start and it fucked my shoulder up.
Upright rows I just something I would never recommend unless you just really think they work better for traps for some reason. I doubt it. Flyes work better for the lateral head of the delts and shrugs work better for traps. [/quote]
i was just using upright rows as an example of another lift (besides dips) that some people just can never do without any pain. It seems like your prone to injury when doing them, bad deal. You said that you would usually include your dips after at least 2 exercises, do you include them on a chest day or an arm day, or both? the reason i ask is i use them as a chest exercise so my shoulders would be more warm at the end of a chest workout than yours could possibly be when including them on an arm day (depending on exercise selection).
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Funny how you are one of the only guys on here, who actually backs up his posts with vids.
Well played.[/quote]
I got called names and swore at when I was backing up what I said with them…
[/quote]
Was not referring to you specifically Beans…just a general observation.
Meat walks the talk…was just giving respect.
[/quote]
lol, I know. Thanks though.
I just being a tool, trying to invoke some lulz.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Not to stray too off topic, but upright rows for the most part get vilified for causing shoulder pain, I always found them to be benefical in trap development espescially as a finisher. If held with a real narrow grip like I see many people do no doubt this is gonna fuck your shoulders however with a shoulder width grip I get no pain.[/quote]
x2. to be honest i would say they are my #2 choice for shoulder development behind presses. i know marcus ruhl was a big fan also and they seemed to work well for him.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Funny how you are one of the only guys on here, who actually backs up his posts with vids.
Well played.[/quote]
I got called names and swore at when I was backing up what I said with them…
Anywho.
[/quote]
LOL.
In bodybuilding though, the evidence is in what your method has BUILT for you, not in the performance of an exercise. If that exercise isn’t making you built better than other movements, dump it.[/quote]
Yeah I know…
I just need to film in certain shirts, and take off the hoodie I’ve grown fond of.
To comment on the upright rows. I don’t like the BB version, but I can get a good MM connection if I’m already a bit spent from other lifts if I do a lateral raise/upright row hybrid with DB’s.
Also, one advantage pulldowns have, like you had mentioned, is to truely target the lats. I feel like pullups would be a great all around back mass builder, while with pulldowns I can start to pump my lats before I even do a rep. I’ve “found my groove” so to speak, and my lats are starting to bust a size 50 suit coat. I still have a ways to go, but VGrip pulldowns work well for me, width wise.[/quote]
Lat pulldowns done with a hold at the bottom to feel that contraction are the reason my lats started really sticking out. This is an old pic and I think I am leaner now, but I haven’t done a pull up in years but I don’t think my back is lagging behind others.
[photo]30068[/photo]
In fact, just from doing it for the past year or two, I would recommend everyone but rank beginners start holding that bottom contraction for a second before letting the weight back up at least a few times just to really feel the lats. The difference it made has been pretty significant.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
If you have trouble with chins or dips just buy an Iron Woody band to assist you. Like benching or squatting, you can have more assistance at the bottom and less and less as you become more mechanically advantageous.
Chin/dip assistance machines are flawed because they don’t offer this ^^^^^. That’s also why most people who use them clank the weight at the top of the movement. Aslo, chin/dips are $1,500+ where a band can be $15+. Simple decision.[/quote]
I’ve found the top to be the hardest part of the pullup for everyone I’ve ever seen do them. Using a reverse band setup doesn’t match the strength curve.
Further, I’ve never found any kind of assistance to be that useful in the pullup, whether it be that gravitron type assisted machine or bands. I’ve found cheating the concentric and doing a few eccentric pullups to be the only worthwhile drill other than general strength training for people who can’t do a single pullup. Honestly, just getting your general body strength up and losing weight if you’re a fat fuck are enough to get most males to do a few legit pullups.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
In fact, just from doing it for the past year or two, I would recommend everyone but rank beginners start holding that bottom contraction for a second before letting the weight back up. The difference it made has been pretty significant.[/quote]
At what point development would you recommend holding the contraction? I always feel a lot more soreness and feel my lats working more on pull ups than pulldowns. I’ve got a feeling I’m doing something wrong because from what most people say, the pulldowns should target the lats more but in my case I just don’t feel it as much.
For a gauge on my level of strength, I take a medium to wide overhand grip and do about 200 lbs on the machine bringing the bar to my collarbone. For pullups I take a medium to wide grip for as many sets as it takes to get to 20 reps (3-5 sets) at a bodyweight of 225. Pullups are done to a dead hang.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
At what point development would you recommend holding the contraction? [/quote]
Honestly? When you can move the whole stack with minor cheating. I now use slightly less weight but hold the contraction along with slowing down my reps at times. I do it by feel so there is no specific number of times I do this…but the point is, be strong enough that even with dropping the weight and holding the contraction, you are still using more weight on that last set than most people use at all.
[quote]
I always feel a lot more soreness and feel my lats working more on pull ups than pulldowns. I’ve got a feeling I’m doing something wrong because from what most people say, the pulldowns should target the lats more but in my case I just don’t feel it as much.[/quote]
This is why I hate the internet. Things get missed when you are only focusing on one post over another. I wrote here that I started with pull ups added in at the beginning of the workout. In fact, we used to do some pull ups every time we hit the gym for a while no matter what we were training that day. However, the bigger I got and the stronger, the more I noticed I felt it more and had more control with lat pulldowns.
I will doubtfully go back to pull ups now because…what is the point?
[quote]
For a gauge on my level of strength, I take a medium to wide overhand grip and do about 200 lbs on the machine bringing the bar to my collarbone. For pullups I take a medium to wide grip for as many sets as it takes to get to 20 reps (3-5 sets) at a bodyweight of 225. Pullups are done to a dead hang.[/quote]
That sounds fine.
[quote]conorh wrote:
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
If you have trouble with chins or dips just buy an Iron Woody band to assist you. Like benching or squatting, you can have more assistance at the bottom and less and less as you become more mechanically advantageous.
Chin/dip assistance machines are flawed because they don’t offer this ^^^^^. That’s also why most people who use them clank the weight at the top of the movement. Aslo, chin/dips are $1,500+ where a band can be $15+. Simple decision.[/quote]
I’ve found the top to be the hardest part of the pullup for everyone I’ve ever seen do them. Using a reverse band setup doesn’t match the strength curve.
Further, I’ve never found any kind of assistance to be that useful in the pullup, whether it be that gravitron type assisted machine or bands. I’ve found cheating the concentric and doing a few eccentric pullups to be the only worthwhile drill other than general strength training for people who can’t do a single pullup. Honestly, just getting your general body strength up and losing weight if you’re a fat fuck are enough to get most males to do a few legit pullups. [/quote]
Doesn’t match the strength curve? Well, all these people you speak of must not be the same species as the people I sell to. They buy a big band, come back and buy smaller and smaller ones until they can do chins so it works in Ohio.
Also, the top of the movement is the easiest. That’s why weaker individuals do don’t dead hang chins. Are you feeling ok?