[quote]lixy wrote:
This is something simply unthinkable (and literally punishable by death) in many of the dictatorships the US cherishes and supports (Saudis, Egyptians, etc…)
[/quote]
And of course the many, many others that the US does not support. . . .(which do not seem to matter since they are not supported by the US)
How about a link to a paper that regularly rips on Chavez. Hell, isn’t that the same guy who shut the TV stations down? It is clear freedom of press rules there. lol.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
And of course the many, many others that the US does not support. . . .(which do not seem to matter since they are not supported by the US) [/quote]
Don’t go down that road. The dictatorships the US backs up outnumber the others.
Most privately owned newspapers criticize Chavez. And how do you think the opposition complains about freedom of speech anyway? Telepathy?
Here’s a paper that’s pretty much dedicated to Pat’s cause:
http://www.el-nacional.com/www/site/
Let’s not revive the RCTV debate again. You know full well that if CNN or Fox backed a coup against Bush, they wouldn’t stay a day on the air – let alone years?
Just to clarify, it is ONE TV station, not “TV stations”. And he didn’t shut them down as much as refused to renew their license. If you have a problem with the Bolivarian constitution and how it handles TV licenses renewal, that’ll be anoter story. But at least get your facts straight and learn that it predates Chavez.
[quote]UB07 wrote:
HEY LIXY!!!
Stop posting your opinion, you are not entitled to one! Bastard!
…[/quote]
If you paid any attention you would see lixy is the ass that tells others they are not allowed to start threads about Chavez or criticizing Iran.
He is also the asshole that has thrown his support for punishing rape victims as well as supporting pedophiles, especially if they share his religion.
Add to that his blaming the US for every terrorist act around the world and he is the forum joke. Nice of you to get on your white horse and come riding to his aid though.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
The point is they have no right to freely express themselves or oppose his regimes. Is being this obtuse fun? What colour is the sky in your world?
This argument is a joke.
The opposition in Venezuela is fierce and very vocal. They have every right to freely express themselves. You don’t have the first idea about the repression and censorship going on around the world. Take a hike in Africa and get back to me on Venezuelans who “have no right to freely express themselves”. Shit! Chavez is called every name in the book, every day of the week, by the private Venezuelan media. This is something simply unthinkable (and literally punishable by death) in many of the dictatorships the US cherishes and supports (Saudis, Egyptians, etc…)
I am all for freedom of expression, but honestly, you seem more focused on bashing Chavez than anything else. You clearly have a bone to pick with the guy. Did you lose money because of his reforms? If not, what exactly is it that drove you to this “Chavez is the devil”?[/quote]
I present facts, and you totally ignore them. You don’t disspell them, or prover them wrong, you just perpetuate this myth that all the oppression and punishment for opposing him does not exist when it clearly does.
Either present opposing facts or shut the fuck up…Making things up does not count.
I am not solely focused on Chavez, I am more than happy to point out how violent and blood thirsty, hateful and intolerant your muslim brothers and sisters are too.
I hate Chavez for what he is doing to that country. I happen to like Venezuela and I also happen to think dictatorships, socialism and oppression are a bad thing. Apparently you think these are good things, but your to chicken shit to go live in one of oppressive regimes, you just support them from a far while you hide under the protection that Sweden provides you while you and you cronies can spread your hate through out Scandinavia…
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
UB07 wrote:
HEY LIXY!!!
Stop posting your opinion, you are not entitled to one! Bastard!
…
If you paid any attention you would see lixy is the ass that tells others they are not allowed to start threads about Chavez or criticizing Iran.
He is also the asshole that has thrown his support for punishing rape victims as well as supporting pedophiles, especially if they share his religion.
Add to that his blaming the US for every terrorist act around the world and he is the forum joke. Nice of you to get on your white horse and come riding to his aid though.[/quote]
Zap,
your desire to silence those who think different than you is astounding. This IS a discussion board. With everyone reaching the same conclusions on issues, it would be a pretty weak discussion, no?
I am not damning nor am I praising anyone’s words but my own, since those are the ones I am responsible for. Here is where I get annoyed:
generally, you prefer to shut someone up versus actually making valid points. this is playground bullying. Calling someone an asshole reflects poorly on you.
from the posts that i have read, lixy seems to take a logical approach or try question the status quo. I like that style of debate since it can provide a counterpoint to the often Neocon style thinking seen on these boards. Again, this is not all the posts but a few that I read.
They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. With most of the US media in the hands of a few companies (GE, Disney, Newscorp, etc.) and a profit motive to inject bias, it can be refreshing to hear what you wont hear on TV.
[quote]UB07 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
UB07 wrote:
HEY LIXY!!!
Stop posting your opinion, you are not entitled to one! Bastard!
…
If you paid any attention you would see lixy is the ass that tells others they are not allowed to start threads about Chavez or criticizing Iran.
He is also the asshole that has thrown his support for punishing rape victims as well as supporting pedophiles, especially if they share his religion.
Add to that his blaming the US for every terrorist act around the world and he is the forum joke. Nice of you to get on your white horse and come riding to his aid though.
Zap,
your desire to silence those who think different than you is astounding. This IS a discussion board. With everyone reaching the same conclusions on issues, it would be a pretty weak discussion, no?
I am not damning nor am I praising anyone’s words but my own, since those are the ones I am responsible for. Here is where I get annoyed:
generally, you prefer to shut someone up versus actually making valid points. this is playground bullying. Calling someone an asshole reflects poorly on you.
from the posts that i have read, lixy seems to take a logical approach or try question the status quo. I like that style of debate since it can provide a counterpoint to the often Neocon style thinking seen on these boards. Again, this is not all the posts but a few that I read.
They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. With most of the US media in the hands of a few companies (GE, Disney, Newscorp, etc.) and a profit motive to inject bias, it can be refreshing to hear what you wont hear on TV.
[/quote]
I told you why I dislike lixy. He has made enough of these posts that most people recognize him for what he is. He has no desire for sincere discussion but he may fool some people that spend little time in this forum.
Make up your own mind about him. Mine is already made up. I gave him a chance early and time and again he proved himself to be an ill intentioned ass.
Why Chavez always wins? Simple really.
Venezuela is a rich country but Venezuelans are poor.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Why Chavez always wins? Simple really.
Venezuela is a rich country but Venezuelans are poor.[/quote]
He buys the poor vote, and squashes the opposition, sounds like a winning formula to me…
Oppressive regimes are always built on the backs of the poor. That is how everybody does it. Poor people have nothing to lose so giving them shit for free will buy their loyalty, even if it will cost them in the end.
Venezuelan society was very much a middle class dominated society, it is quickly become poor because the wealth is leaving or getting redistributed. Pretty soon he will get his wish, in 1999 he stated he wanted to make Venezuela like the “happy people of Cuba”, who are starving. Making everybody poor makes them equal, nobody has shit…
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Oppressive regimes are always built on the backs of the poor. That is how everybody does it. [/quote]
Also, Chavez wasn’t much of an oppressor before the Washington-backed coup of 2002.
Bollocks! The core of Venezuela has always been poor. The Venezuelan “middle class” is a bourgeoisie that makes the European middle class look like poor bums.
The wealth is in the ground and they got plenty to go around.
Just because greedy SOB fled to Miami (or is it Georgia?) doesn’t mean the country is becoming poor.
Cubans should have been content with Batista, right?
[quote]lixy wrote:
The wealth is in the ground and they got plenty to go around.
Just because greedy SOB fled to Miami (or is it Georgia?) doesn’t mean the country is becoming poor.
[/quote]
That must be why Venice had the GDP of the Ottoman Empire.
Or Holland that of Russia.
Or HK that of China.
`Cause its all about the natural resources.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Also, Chavez wasn’t much of an oppressor before the Washington-backed coup of 2002.
[/quote]
Washington never admitted backing this coup. Why are we supposed to believe the word of Iranians, and those of Hezbollah in regards to terrorist activities, but when Washington says it did not back the coup, they MUST be lying?
[quote]orion wrote:
That must be why Venice had the GDP of the Ottoman Empire.
Or Holland that of Russia.
Or HK that of China.
`Cause its all about the natural resources.
[/quote]
Or how to take advantage of them to increase your GDP.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
orion wrote:
That must be why Venice had the GDP of the Ottoman Empire.
Or Holland that of Russia.
Or HK that of China.
`Cause its all about the natural resources.
Or how to take advantage of them to increase your GDP.[/quote]
A task command economies excel at, every time they try.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Oppressive regimes are always built on the backs of the poor. That is how everybody does it.
Also, Chavez wasn’t much of an oppressor before the Washington-backed coup of 2002.
[/quote]
If the U.S. backed the coup I support every part except it’s failure…Sadly, it’s bullshit. Chavez was the same then as he is now, I saw it with my own two eyes.
The country is rich, the people in it are poor now. Chavez doesn’t share…Shit man, don’t you read?
[quote]
Pretty soon he will get his wish, in 1999 he stated he wanted to make Venezuela like the “happy people of Cuba”, who are starving. Making everybody poor makes them equal, nobody has shit…
Cubans should have been content with Batista, right?[/quote]
Were the Cubans better of with Batista? you bet! By a factor of a million…You really don’t know what the fuck you are talking about…Don’t ever get tired of being wrong?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Also, Chavez wasn’t much of an oppressor before the Washington-backed coup of 2002.
Washington never admitted backing this coup. Why are we supposed to believe the word of Iranians, and those of Hezbollah in regards to terrorist activities, but when Washington says it did not back the coup, they MUST be lying?[/quote]
The prick behind the coup is a regular at the White House. Washington was the first to congratulate him. Read between the lines…
P.S: Everybody knows Iranians back up Hezbollah.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.
You are an idiot. No one should take you seriously. Every time you post you should be derided.
Go away.[/quote]
Well to be fair, I would say there does have to be a certain amount of shared blame…
After all, if/when peace is restored to Iraq, the country gets a proper functioning democracy etc - Washington and London will not be shy in taking the credit…
In that sense, surely they should shoulder some of the moral responsibility for a climate where bombs explode in market places…
[quote]red bull wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.
You are an idiot. No one should take you seriously. Every time you post you should be derided.
Go away.
Well to be fair, I would say there does have to be a certain amount of shared blame…
After all, if/when peace is restored to Iraq, the country gets a proper functioning democracy etc - Washington and London will not be shy in taking the credit…
In that sense, surely they should shoulder some of the moral responsibility for a climate where bombs explode in market places…
[/quote]
Saddam killed his own people at an incredible rate. Saddam killed countless people in his invasions of Iran and Kuwait.
Since the US deposed Saddam, terrorists have been responsible for the overwhelming majority of Iraqi civilians casualties. I believe the ratio of victims of terrorism to innocent victim killed by the US is over 600:1.
So before the US invasion Iraqis were being murdered at a high rate by Saddam. Since the US invasion Iraqis have been murdered by terrorists.
The only parties in the last 30 plus years that have been trying not to kill Iraqis are the US and its allies.
This blame the US stance is bullshit.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
red bull wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.
You are an idiot. No one should take you seriously. Every time you post you should be derided.
Go away.
Well to be fair, I would say there does have to be a certain amount of shared blame…
After all, if/when peace is restored to Iraq, the country gets a proper functioning democracy etc - Washington and London will not be shy in taking the credit…
In that sense, surely they should shoulder some of the moral responsibility for a climate where bombs explode in market places…
Saddam killed his own people at an incredible rate. Saddam killed countless people in his invasions of Iran and Kuwait.
Since the US deposed Saddam, terrorists have been responsible for the overwhelming majority of Iraqi civilians casualties. I believe the ratio of victims of terrorism to innocent victim killed by the US is over 600:1.
So before the US invasion Iraqis were being murdered at a high rate by Saddam. Since the US invasion Iraqis have been murdered by terrorists.
The only parties in the last 30 plus years that have been trying not to kill Iraqis are the US and its allies.
This blame the US stance is bullshit.
[/quote]
Sure, everyone fighting the US is a terrorist, the US is not trying to kill Iraqis, except Iraqi terrorists of course, which is why it does not matter how many Iraqis die because of US´s actions.
If we narrow down our concept of responsibility long enough and make the concept of terrorism broad enough the US is not responsible for a single death in a war in undoubtedly started.
[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
red bull wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.
You are an idiot. No one should take you seriously. Every time you post you should be derided.
Go away.
Well to be fair, I would say there does have to be a certain amount of shared blame…
After all, if/when peace is restored to Iraq, the country gets a proper functioning democracy etc - Washington and London will not be shy in taking the credit…
In that sense, surely they should shoulder some of the moral responsibility for a climate where bombs explode in market places…
Saddam killed his own people at an incredible rate. Saddam killed countless people in his invasions of Iran and Kuwait.
Since the US deposed Saddam, terrorists have been responsible for the overwhelming majority of Iraqi civilians casualties. I believe the ratio of victims of terrorism to innocent victim killed by the US is over 600:1.
So before the US invasion Iraqis were being murdered at a high rate by Saddam. Since the US invasion Iraqis have been murdered by terrorists.
The only parties in the last 30 plus years that have been trying not to kill Iraqis are the US and its allies.
This blame the US stance is bullshit.
Sure, everyone fighting the US is a terrorist, the US is not trying to kill Iraqis, except Iraqi terrorists of course, which is why it does not matter how many Iraqis die because of US´s actions.
If we narrow down our concept of responsibility long enough and make the concept of terrorism broad enough the US is not responsible for a single death in a war in undoubtedly started.[/quote]
That was a sad attempt.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
red bull wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.
You are an idiot. No one should take you seriously. Every time you post you should be derided.
Go away.
Well to be fair, I would say there does have to be a certain amount of shared blame…
After all, if/when peace is restored to Iraq, the country gets a proper functioning democracy etc - Washington and London will not be shy in taking the credit…
In that sense, surely they should shoulder some of the moral responsibility for a climate where bombs explode in market places…
Saddam killed his own people at an incredible rate. Saddam killed countless people in his invasions of Iran and Kuwait.
Since the US deposed Saddam, terrorists have been responsible for the overwhelming majority of Iraqi civilians casualties. I believe the ratio of victims of terrorism to innocent victim killed by the US is over 600:1.
So before the US invasion Iraqis were being murdered at a high rate by Saddam. Since the US invasion Iraqis have been murdered by terrorists.
The only parties in the last 30 plus years that have been trying not to kill Iraqis are the US and its allies.
This blame the US stance is bullshit.
[/quote]
The US (and its allies) are blameless with regards to the horrific situation in Iraq. They didn’t bomb, invade and occupy Baghdad; they liberated it!
You should be blaming Venezuela, Switzerland, China and the others for the emergence of market bombs in Iraq. A rule of thumb is that the ones who don’t speak English are the “bad guys” whereas the ones with the star spangled banner are the “good guys”.
You guys are blinded by the “liberal media”, “anti-Americanism”, and your sympathy for terrorists. Sheesh…