[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
At the rate that he is going starting a war is just months away.
With whom and over what?[/quote]
Does not matter.
Right now I am thinking that Chavez is an anti-socialist robot that is sure to save Latin America from communism by repeating all of its mistakes in one third of the time of the original.
An interactive learning experience robot.
War is simply next.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
Chavez is the planted boogieman in South America so that when the time is convenient he’ll start problems with Colombia and under UN mandate the US will go in to “liberate” and keep the peace, and of course the solution will be a South American Union.
ORDO AB CHAO
Who planted him?[/quote]
Probably the same ones who planted Castro, Mao and propped Ho Chi Minh.
Damn it Pat!
Start a thread, name it “Chavez is the devil”, then proceed to update it with the reasons you think Venezuela is better off without him. Even though the way you’re fixating on a democratically elected leader, when your own government supports real tyrants is absurd.
Chavez has become heavy-handed ever since the coups. And yes, the fact that he is stubborn and tactless (albeit popular and eloquent) is not helping. But if you want to talk about dictators, I’ll be more than happy to list the self-appointed leaders Washington is in bed with, all of whom make Chavez’s dirty tricks look like kindergarten play.
If you think Bush has more legitimacy than Chavez, then you evidently have no idea what the term means.
And no, I will not read crap from HDnet. Not only because it’s yet another Fox, but also because it’s American. The guy kicked out your oil companies, calls your president names, and you backed his ousting. If you want anyone to take your “fresh info” seriously, at least have the decency to fetch a neutral source.
Americans killed more than their fair share of Iraqis (that is, at least an order of magnitude more than the Iraqis who killed Americans). The invasion created the atmosphere suitable for carnage and once you stopped your murderous bombings, the people started slaughtering each other.
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.[/quote]
You are an idiot. No one should take you seriously. Every time you post you should be derided.
Go away.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Damn it Pat!
Start a thread, name it “Chavez is the devil”, then proceed to update it with the reasons you think Venezuela is better off without him. Even though the way you’re fixating on a democratically elected leader, when your own government supports real tyrants is absurd.
Chavez has become heavy-handed ever since the coups. And yes, the fact that he is stubborn and tactless (albeit popular and eloquent) is not helping. But if you want to talk about dictators, I’ll be more than happy to list the self-appointed leaders Washington is in bed with, all of whom make Chavez’s dirty tricks look like kindergarten play.
If you think Bush has more legitimacy than Chavez, then you evidently have no idea what the term means.
And no, I will not read crap from HDnet. Not only because it’s yet another Fox, but also because it’s American. The guy kicked out your oil companies, calls your president names, and you backed his ousting. If you want anyone to take your “fresh info” seriously, at least have the decency to fetch a neutral source.
Americans killed more than their fair share of Iraqis (that is, at least an order of magnitude more than the Iraqis who killed Americans). The invasion created the atmosphere suitable for carnage and once you stopped your murderous bombings, the people started slaughtering each other.
Everytime a bomb goes off in the Baghdad market, the blame is on the USA.[/quote]
HD Net is like FOX? They are not even remotely related and the guys are British, not American. If anything, they lean left, but all I have seen is that they tell it like it is. Your self imposed ignorance is laughable at best. I presented evidence and you dis spell it with rhetoric; that’s not even good or logical, or based on any facts what so ever.
What is legitimacy mean to you, Bush was democratically elected. There is no denying that and no one was threatened or killed to make it happen, so how, pray tell, is he illegitimate. A moron, yes, an asshole, yes, but he is legit.
Americans don’t target civilians, and it’s a tragedy when one dies because of our actions. You’re muslim buddies openly target men, women and children. These are facts and they are not disputable. Want about a 120 links of evidence? I have a rather large database of links regarding you brother’s peaceful tactics.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Apparently it’s not good for your career and livelihood to go against Chavez. If you name ends up on the naughty list you lose you job and are blacklisted so you cannot get another one.
Now THAT is probable. But it’s completely different from your previous discourse.
In any case, as dictatorial as he may be, the guy is still more legitimate than a Georges Bush. [/quote]
Wow! Just…wow!!!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Apparently it’s not good for your career and livelihood to go against Chavez. If you name ends up on the naughty list you lose you job and are blacklisted so you cannot get another one.
Now THAT is probable. But it’s completely different from your previous discourse.
In any case, as dictatorial as he may be, the guy is still more legitimate than a Georges Bush.
Wow! Just…wow!!!
[/quote]
Well, he is. Was elected with a majority and all.
Why can´t the Venezuelans vote for a stupid asshole?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Honest question: I read that Chavez himself took power at one point via a coup. Is this true?[/quote]
Nope.
He sure tried though. You have to remember that the late 80s, early 90s were just horrible in Venezuela. Cops were literally shooting people in the streets. The economy of the country was in shambles, and the country was victim to the IMF and the other usual suspects.
Note that Chavez was not the only one to attempt a coup against then-president Perez.
[quote]orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Apparently it’s not good for your career and livelihood to go against Chavez. If you name ends up on the naughty list you lose you job and are blacklisted so you cannot get another one.
Now THAT is probable. But it’s completely different from your previous discourse.
In any case, as dictatorial as he may be, the guy is still more legitimate than a Georges Bush.
Wow! Just…wow!!!
Well, he is. Was elected with a majority and all.
Why can´t the Venezuelans vote for a stupid asshole?
[/quote]
“more legitimate than a “Georges” Bush”—“well he is. Was elected with a majority and all.”
So was George Bush.
bota, serious question, can’t you be factually correct ONCE?
Shock us.
JeffR
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Apparently it’s not good for your career and livelihood to go against Chavez. If you name ends up on the naughty list you lose you job and are blacklisted so you cannot get another one.
Now THAT is probable. But it’s completely different from your previous discourse.
In any case, as dictatorial as he may be, the guy is still more legitimate than a Georges Bush. You see, in the real world, engineers and managers are the minority. And as an engineer from a third-world country myself, I can tell you that my salary was an order of magnitude higher than the median. Plus, you don’t know what their contracts stipulated. For all we know, they violated it. I mean, when you publicly criticize the people you’re working for, you will get fired! [/quote]
Is anyone really surprised that lixy twisted this argument to go on another Anti-Bush, Anti-American Democracy rant?
Does anyone really doubt that lixy is a radical Islamist mouthpiece?
JeffR
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Was Perez democratically elected?
It sounds like you are condoning Chavez’s attempted coup. Are you?[/quote]
There’s a big difference between providing context and condoning. I sure am glad his coup didn’t succeed. Look at what America is doing right now to undermine his rule, and imagine how much toned up it would be if he didn’t win fair and square.
At the end of the day, Perez was ousted from office.
[Perez] was the first Venezuelan president in office that was separated from his public role on May 20, 1993 by the Supreme Court, for the misappropriation of 250 million bolivars belonging to a presidential discretionary fund.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Wow. That certainly reads as “The only problem with his coup, had it succeeded, is that it would have given the US an excuse to do horrible things.” [/quote]
C’mon! You know better than that…
Well, given that the coup against Chavez is when he stepped up his cracking down on the opposition, I don’t really think the US is blameless. After all, Washington was first to congratulate Carmona and his crew when they overthrew the democratically elected government.
We’ll really know the full extent of American involvement in a few decades, and by then, most people wouldn’t care anyway…
No. But this is not so much about Chavez as it is about common Venezuelans. I believe that they have the right to self-determination, and that foreign powers should not be meddling with that inalienable right.
HEY LIXY!!!
Stop posting your opinion, you are not entitled to one! Bastard!
How dare you have the gall to disagree with the general consensus?
Please disappear, perhaps to a secret prison where you are water-boarded.
this is a No Spin Zone™, obviously all the thinking was already done so you don’t have to hurt your head.
[quote]orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Apparently it’s not good for your career and livelihood to go against Chavez. If you name ends up on the naughty list you lose you job and are blacklisted so you cannot get another one.
Now THAT is probable. But it’s completely different from your previous discourse.
In any case, as dictatorial as he may be, the guy is still more legitimate than a Georges Bush.
Wow! Just…wow!!!
Well, he is. Was elected with a majority and all.
Why can´t the Venezuelans vote for a stupid asshole?
[/quote]
Sure they can, so long as they were free to do so, which initially they did. But he retained his power through, threat, intimidation and brutality, which is not legitamte
[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
I sure am glad his coup didn’t succeed. Look at what America is doing right now to undermine his rule, and imagine how much toned up it would be if he didn’t win fair and square.
Wow. That certainly reads as “The only problem with his coup, had it succeeded, is that it would have given the US an excuse to do horrible things.”
Even if that’s not exactly what you meant, you AGAIN found a way to turn a discussion about something (Chavez’s character and respect for the rule of law / democracy) into a criticism of the US.
Does Chavez have any moral grounds for expecting opponents to honor and respect his presidency when he himself attempted a coup against a predecessor?[/quote]
I would expect nothing less…Lixy’s support for brutal dictators is well historied in these forums. Maintaining power through intimidation and violence is a democratic and legitimate tactic for maintaining power. In his world view, there is no personal responsibility for actions, it’s always somebody else’s fault; or really just Americas fault. Chevez is a brutal dictator, it’s Americas fault. Mugabe razes the poor neighborhood in Zimbabwe, it’s Americas fault. It would be pitiable if he wasn’t so pathetic.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Does Chavez have any moral grounds for expecting opponents to honor and respect his presidency when he himself attempted a coup against a predecessor?
No. But this is not so much about Chavez as it is about common Venezuelans. I believe that they have the right to self-determination, and that foreign powers should not be meddling with that inalienable right.[/quote]
The point is they have no right to freely express themselves or oppose his regimes. Is being this obtuse fun? What colour is the sky in your world?
[quote]pat36 wrote:
The point is they have no right to freely express themselves or oppose his regimes. Is being this obtuse fun? What colour is the sky in your world?[/quote]
This argument is a joke.
The opposition in Venezuela is fierce and very vocal. They have every right to freely express themselves. You don’t have the first idea about the repression and censorship going on around the world. Take a hike in Africa and get back to me on Venezuelans who “have no right to freely express themselves”. Shit! Chavez is called every name in the book, every day of the week, by the private Venezuelan media. This is something simply unthinkable (and literally punishable by death) in many of the dictatorships the US cherishes and supports (Saudis, Egyptians, etc…)
I am all for freedom of expression, but honestly, you seem more focused on bashing Chavez than anything else. You clearly have a bone to pick with the guy. Did you lose money because of his reforms? If not, what exactly is it that drove you to this “Chavez is the devil”?