On terror: I do not believe the palestinian cry for martyrdom came falling out of the sky or is caused by the lesser life standard palestinians have in their refugee camps. There is a big propaganda machine behind it all. It tries to stimulate it with cultural, social and financial means. Someone said it earlier… the suicide bomber/killer is a hero, their familiemembers rise in social status in the community and saddam and other bad elements in the islam world pay the parents some $20.000 for their part in it. Palestinians are constantly subjected to propaganda that states that martyrdom is best thing a muslim could do. On anti americanism: I can’t believe the general anti-america sentiment being trendy in europe. Sure Americas actions / politics arent all good. My personal gripe with Bush is his blocking of all international environmental agreements. Bush himself may be standing with one leg in his grave but i intend to live another 80 years, and i don not wish i have to migrate to a mountain in eastern europe in 40 years just to breath some fresh air and raise my own cattle to eat something healthy. Now i got that off my heart lets continue… I observe a lot of stupid anti Americanism. People just dont see the good things. Take the gulf war, people say ‘it was motivated by oil interrest’. Well… so yeah it was, but it did free an oppressed country right ? Same with war in Afghanistan… ‘They are only doing it as a retaliation’ ‘Let them afghans live in peace’ I was was completely puzzled. That coming from leftist people ? From women ? Cant they see that a nation is being liberated from tiranny ?
bus driver i believed i made my point.Put simply factions in the palestinian organization dont want peace and arafat cant do shit bout it becoz basically he probably needs permission from the israeli govt to take a piss.You think the israelis want peace? who are we kidding war monger sharon doesnt want peace with the palestinians(i presume u dont either based on your constant bashing of palestinians).People from both sides need to change their attitudes see each other as human and not divided as palestinians and iraelis.
to james i dont need the thesauras and spellings due to typo have u nothing better to do than to scrutinize the writing skills of a 13 year old? Why dont u read what is said instead
I feel for ya Bus Driver. I have t oalmost laugh (to keep from crying) when I see that Israel is responsible for “Aggression”. When Adolp Hitler invaded Poland in September of 1939 France and Britain declared war. Eventually we (America) came into the mix. If what Israel is doing is agression I suppose we are guilty for so thoroughly destorying Germany that it looked as if there was a nulcear holocaust there. Many places looked liked the face of the moon it was so devestated. Is it agression to defeat terrorists? (And yes Hitler WAS a terrorist. His goal was the excatly parellel to Arafat: “Massacre Jews and destroy Israel”). Since when does a country not have a right to defend itself militarily? They did not even use the Israeli airforce (which could have saved many Jewish soldier’s lives) but instead did their absolute utmost to prevent civilian casualties. In fact their incursion into the west bank could be considered tentitive. We were hit with 9/11 and then proceeded to invade Afghanastan. Americans that are here: Let’s not show Israel hypocrisy. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and should have our full support.
I cna also understand Bus Driver’s anger and frustration now. I’ve never have had to deal with almost daily bombings in public areas so I have no right to sit here and tell Israel not to fight back. If you let a bully pick on you day after day and simply take it this encourages him to continue and even escilate violence. I mean comon…can you yourself imagine having to live in constant fear every single hour of the day wondering if you’re not going to get blown into pieces; and someone else having to gather up your limbs and throw them in a sack? Particularly when all you’re trying to do is live a normal life?
Think about it guys. Are we to sit on a high horse and insist Israel “take it”? I know that is exactly what Hitler wanted others to do as he tried to wipe the Jews from the face of the Earth.
Cloakmanor, thanks a lot for your support.
Madman, you are truly an idiot. “bus driver i believed i made my point” No, you haven’t, because you don’t have a point, you just blabber on and on about nothing. “Put simply factions in the palestinian organization dont want peace and arafat cant do shit bout it becoz basically he probably needs permission from the israeli govt to take a piss” So what are you saying? Israel is stopping Arafat from making peace? According to what you said, the Israeli government isn’t allowing Arafat to force his people to stop the bombings. Why would they do that, they don’t enjoy watching people die from suicide bombers.
“You think the israelis want peace? who are we kidding war monger sharon doesnt want peace with the palestinians(i presume u dont either based on your constant bashing of palestinians” You really have no clue. The Israelis DO want peace. That’s why they made peace with Egypt and Jordan, two of their fiercest enemies, you idiot. And, btw, of course I want peace, the palestenians just won’t let me have it. Didn’t your elementary school teachers tell you not to jump to conclusions?
It is extremely unfortunate knowing that peace is not possible on it’s own. Sometimes however you must fight for your freedom. Sometimes even just for physical protection. It is such a tiny strip of land crammed in between very hostile Arab nations who would like more than anything to see the complete destruction of Israel. The proof is obvious. Before 1967 Israel did not even have any control over the now os called “occupied terroritories”. In an act of outright agression with the singular purpose of the destruction of Israel on their minds Syria, Jordan, and Egypt invaded Israel with Russia’s full support; utilizing the latest (at the time) Russian equipment such as the T55 Tank and Mig jets. Outnumbered 20 to 1 Israel complete destroyed the invading armies and on one fron had pushed over the Golan Heights and was driving toward Damascus when nations around the world demand they halt their advance. What a hypocritical act the world showed Israel. During World War II the US, Great Britain, and Russia didn’t stop their advance toward Germany to overthrow Hitler and his genocidal regime. Why always the double standard? Simple: anti-semitism that is now close to 4000 years old. Frankly Israel needs a nation of its own t oscape all the persuction that they have been forced to suffer for so long. Particularly now with anti-semitism on the rise all over Europe and Asia. Funny how they do not act this way any other people’s over any war anywhere else in the world isnt it? I am very surprised (perhaps i shouldn’t be however) at blindness of so many. I guess the late Jewish director Stanley Kubrick was correct. They all have their “eyes wide shut”.
The USS Liberty was the American naval vessel that the Israeli military attacked. It was flying a large US flag, it had US naval markings and looked nothing like any of the dumps the Arab community had at sea. The Israeli air force attacked for hours. They need to kill those Americans to prevent anyone from discovering that they were about to attack their neighbors. They have never accepted their guilt. Personally I don’t trust the government of Israel as far as I can spit.
Bus Driver you are aware that America occupied Germany after WW2. Did you know that we rebuilt it and established a viable Democratic government. All this in less time than Israel has held the occupied territories. We kept troops in Germany with the consent and thanks of the German people to prevent the USSR from taking the country by force. We got out of the Philippines and Panama at the request of those peoples and when the Germans feel safe without our protection we will get out of their country.
When decrying the immorality of targeting civilian populations one should keep in mind that the US military bombed the city of Dresden until it was completely pulverized. Dresden had a large civilian population. Be A-bombed Japan to end the war but it was civilians we killed, not solders. For over 40 years and to this day we have thousands of nuclear weapons targeting civilian populations. The hope is that it will so terrify our adversaries that they will not attack us. Is that terrorism, I don’t know but it seems to have worked kept us alive.
I see no solution to the mess that exists in the Middle East, but I also see no reason to claim one side is good and the other evil. There is plenty of both on both sides. The Israelis would kill me if it was to their advantage to do so, the Palestinians would kill me for revenge. I have no respect for either side.
Here is my solution…after the next suicide bomber is sent in Israel and detonates his/her device how about we let Israel handle it with the force of its full military might. I know this sounds harsh, but I am sooo sick of people. Oh the poor Palestenians the Israeli’s are going into our refugee camps and killing our poor terrorists. To put a stop to all this plain and simple, let them handle their business and the rest of the world STAY OUT!! To madman/boy-I do have better things to do, but people like you need a good slap up side your head. You’ve never served in the military, your parents didn’t die at the hands of terrorists in 9/11. You need to grow up a little, experience life (good & bad) with all it has to offer, and put your life in someone elses hands before you form an opinion! People like you have lived your whole lives in your own private little bubbles and claim to know so much. If you think the Palestenians have a right to do what they are doing,… I think you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and see what kind of man you really are/going to be. 'Cause right now you’re speaking like a coward, while siding with cowards. Purposefully killing children in their beds that is what the Palestenians are made of…nothing much.
One more thing I did read what you said. I read it very carefully (hence the scrutinizing remarks) and you’ve said absolutly nothing(of importance). The only thing you have printed was regurgitated grossly objective material from some liberal publication. Yea, you’re a real winner.
You must be totally oblivious to what is going on in this occupation of palestine. For a start Israel was an always will be Palestinian land. Israel was never a country until the 40’s, when they settled in Palestinian land, with funds from the bastards U.S.A. Palestinian has every right to suicide bomb Israel, because that is their only way for freedom. These are not terroist attacks. Israel are the terroists for killing Palestinians and invading there country. Just imagine, for example, Canada were to settle in alaska, U.S.A would nucklear bomb the whole country. Now you can imagine how Palestine feels when they get their land taken over from the jews. Hamas, Al Asqa Brigade, Islamic Jihad are all doing good jobs and I hope you keep up the good work, KEEP ON FIGHTING THE TERROSIT JEWS AND WHAT THEY HAVE CAUSED TO YOUR COUNTRY. FIGHT FOR FREEDOM!!!
This ellusive peace we seek is a joke! To be honest, I know very little about the situation. In fact I wouldn’t know which side to support had I to choose. But look at us… were T-men for God’s sake! and we can’t even see through the turmoil of our own frustrations to discuss the matter with prudence and reason. Indeed what fools we mortals be, even us iron-heads can’t along. That’s why there will never be peace.
Ummmm…excuse me but Isreal was the one invaded in 1948, 1967, and 1973. With what purpose? The total destruction of Israel. And Israel was a country before '48. Albeit a long time before that but nevertheless. They had country to live of their own for centuries. Palastinians are Arabs. The Arabs own ALL of the middle east and north africa except now just that tiny strip of land where Israel now sits. The other Arab nations REFUSE to let the Palastinians in. why? So they will be incouraged to destroy Israel.
Israel is the only true democracy in that part of the world. The last thing we need is another terrorist Arab state. Arabs are bent on destroying civilization and returning all of us to the dark ages. Notice that when Israel attacks, it always hits military targets. When the Palestinians kill, they target civilians.
The Bus Driver: because most people don’t understand violence and war at all, they think that if your just nice to people they will be nice to you, they don’t want terrorists to threaten THEM so they think if they are nice to the terrorists (side against Israel) they will go away, and then they will remain all cozy and warm and tucked in, to smugly waddle down to Safeway’s in a deep consumer trance until they get their govenerment entitlement I.V. at retirement
in short, they are ignorant passive aggressive cowering limp dicked bed wetting wussie bastards
If Israel really wanted to kill Palestinians, there wouldn’t be any more Palestinians poof(Israeli Arabs)
Perhaps Liberty has it right. In a war of attrition there are no ‘true’ winners. Everyday people die, civilians and soldiers alike, but in the end they’re all people we’ll never meet. In the end we cannot justify such horrid means with no clear resolve or hope for the future. It’s time to reconsider what we’re fighting for.
Responding(and agreeing)with Bill Roberts post,I think it’s along the same line as supplying the afgany’s with weapons to fight the Russians.Sort of like opps,what did we do?I watched a special on Arafat.I find it kind of ironic,because supporting them(PLO) was supporting terrorism. Now,if anyone else does it,it’s evil,and wrong. I’m not trying to shit on americans(a lot of countries were involved getting the PLO accepted), just sometimes people only see one side. To Lightandfluffy - “We are going to root out terroism no matter how uncomfortable that makes the rest of the world”. Please tell me you don’t believe that statement,PLEASE. That statement should read,“We are going to spend billions trying, and try to make it seem like we can,and hopefully the general public will suck it up”.Point being,it’s not gonna happen, terrorism will not be stopped,regardless of what George double ya Bush says.
Don’t worry bus dude…I for one totally support any Isreali action because the Palistinians are asking for it. Fuck them, and hell bomb Mecca while we’re at it. I am sick of the whinny-ass palistinians and their little talk. They lost their land due to hostile take over, so they need to get the fuck over it. We americans took the land from the indians in a far more vicious way and I don’t see them bombing our citizens. All countries of the world were established through hostile take over. Many of them several times. So if people kept being all proud about it the world would constantly be at war, but it isn’t most people know when they are beat and give up. I think Isreal and the Palistinians need to duke it out once and for all, who ever wins the war, can have the land.
If america was bombed constantly like that we would be fighting everybody, but people say Isreal doesn't have that right? Shit, we got bombed five times in the last 15 years and only once on civilians and we went and wiped out an entire government. Isreal has my blessing to do what it takes to end the situation. Arafat must die in the process or there will never be peace. They should have killed them when they had the chance. one morter into the building and a large problem would have been resolved.
What do you mean it was like supplying weapons to the Afghans to fight the Russians? You sure as hell better not be comparing the Afghans to the PLO. You are probably another one of those stupid fucks who think that Bin Laden is an Afghan. Well, he’s not Afghan, he’s a Saudi, also known as an Arab. I’m fucking sick of ignorant people bashing Afghans without knowing what in the hell they are talking about. For your information, it was the United States’ fault for the buildup of terrorism in Afghanistan. The US supplied weapons to the Afghans and the Afghans won the war against the Soviet Union. After all of the money the US spent on defense spending during the Cold War, the least we could have done was give money so that a war-devastated and demolished Afghanistan could rebuild itself. For Christ’s sake, communism all but fell after the Soviet’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. But no, we turn our backs on them even though we know Afghanistan no longer had a government. Well thanks to the power vacuum that we could have easily fixed and didn’t, Arab terrorists infiltrated the country. Then we get Sept. 11 and now shitheads like you blame the Afghans. Just so you know Afghans suffered from Arab terrorists in their own country like we did in ours.
PLO = Palestine liberation organisation. Aren’t the jews in someone elses country, or is this one of those blurry issues that have been fought over for centuries?
Jewish money lenders who learned their trade from the Babylonians(?) have never been popular. Not many european businesses were sorry to see them go as it levelled the playing field.
Dont the Jews occupy many of Americas’ positions of power and as such are seen as co conspiritors for the strong arm global capitalist influence of America (Leader of the free world my ass. How arrogant!)
Nations with no army who are forced to travel through military checkpoints to shop, work etc where they are abused and spat on are likely to use any and all methods available. It doesn’t matter what the terrorists did, the jews are indescriminately blasting men women & children (see www.rotten.com). If you were shooting at my house and were overtaking my country and i had nothing but a knife I would not hesitate to cut your mothers throat to make you wish you never started a war.
So you see how terrorism on one side and murder of non combatants from a defenseless society is useless as it creates righteous indignation. It does however discourage future wars and unjustifiable attacks.
Didn’t america agree to turn a blind eye to Israel to take part of palestine anyway?
These are issues you need to consider.
This is what they think.
No one is innocent so don’t fool yourselves.