Can’t we all just get along?
Why is it, when an Israeli counterattack kills one or two innocents it is a major transgression the media hypes up and yet when a so-called “freedom fighter” blows up a disco you hear nothing about the innocent women and children? Personally, I would like to see the U.S. give the world a collective fuck you andpull out of helping everyone else.Call in all our debts, seal our borders to all foreigners, use our own oil reserves and let the arabs go elsewhere, impose the same trade regulations on others that are imposed on us, and just for shits and giggles annex Mexico.Hell, over half the working population is already over here anyway, we might as well make it formal.
You know what happens when you assume and yes you did make an ass of yourself. Did I say christians? Just you wait and see what group of people will be targeted next if Isreal goes down. Of course I doubt that will happen because the surrounding Arab countries are just too incompetent when it comes to fighting. If the surrounding Arab countries would agree to peace then there would be peace.
Bus Driver - it was Barak, not Bibi thast offered Arafat 97% of everything that he wanted. To others - Please note that since when is a state started where all inhabitants (or almost all) rely upon another state for employment. For example, in 1993/4 when the Oslo accords were signed, they gave Arafat a mandate to prepare for a state of their own. In this mandate, there was an outline for economic growth, education systems, hospitals, etc. Since then there has been NO moves by Arafat to advance “his own” people. But time and time again, the millions given by Israel, the EU and separaetly France are used by Arafat for other Palestian causes, but not econmic viability of the people. It is easy to keep your own people down and blame the Israeli’s. I say, cordone off the territories, dismantle the settlements and say to the Palestians, here is your state. Keep the Border Control on gaurd, keep the Air Force in action and let the Palestian people start their nation building. Let’s see how successful they would be. Even give them East Jerusalem, but none of the Old City.
Fuck Israel and Fuck Palestine? Both are Fucking asshole who ahve been fighting for thousands of years and have no intent on stopping anytime soon! Who really gives a flying Fuck about them? I sure as hell don’t if they want to be ignorant assholes let all kill each other it would be of great service to the whole world!
I read your post with some interest. I was impressed by how well you presented your argument. It appears that emotionalism did not play any part in your analysis. You presented your solution both thoroughly and with great description. You should be applauded for your grasp upon the geopolitical situation. I was most impressed with your ability to see both sides of the issue. I think you should write to every major newspaper using the exact same language. I am sure everyone will take you very seriously.
Dude, I guess ignorance is bliss? what a freggin idiot, jeesh.
I for one COMPLETELY agree with you and COMPLETELY support Israel in any action it takes. I think we (America) should be fully supporting Israel, even with troops if necessary (though the strength of the Israeli military is formidable so I don’t see this being necessary. Hopefully peace will come eventually, but the fact is, Arafat is too weak to do ANYTHING. Until a real leader emerges who is really willing to take risks and work with the IDF to root out terrorists, mainstream Israelis and mainstream moderate Palistinians will continue to suffer. Until said leader arrives, I believe the IDF has every right (in fact, the duty) to seek out and eradicate the terrorists wherever they are.
Let me put a little different spin on this thing. Remember Israel was a “gift” by the UN to make up for the holocaust. So, let’s say that the UN just decided that they were going to give California to the Serbs to pay back for ethnic cleansing. (I can’t remember if it was them being killed, but for this, just go with it). Okay, nothing we can do about so we just have to suck it up. Then suddenly California (now named Slovakia) declares war on and captures Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Idaho, and Montana. The then give Montana back, but keep the rest. Okay, are we going to be pissed or what? Now remember how we all hated communists? Let’s say we did the same thing, but it was communists instead of Serbs. NOW how pissed are you. Now, everytime there’s a skirmish, Russia agrees with them. Obviously, words can’t describe how mad we would be. Remember, to the Palestinians, WE’RE the terrorists. Granted, I’m with all of you in thinking they’re crazy as hell and wouldn’t mind clearing a large portion of that area off the map, but it doesn’t work like that. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what you can. This is thousands of years of bad blood and it will never work together. We have a better chance of seeing TC and Bill Phillips appearing on Oprah to promote their new book, Slimfast You’re Way to a Six Pack, together. Ain’t gonna happen.
Your spin on things is incorrect. Isreal did not declare war on the surrounding arab countries. The arab countries declared war on isreal a few different times and got beat down each time. Isreal ended up with more land after the battle because the arab countries have an incompetent military. Isreal could have kept taking more and more land but they showed mercy. They could have easily made Egypt and the other surrounding countries part of Isreal but they didn’t.
Also remember, way back when, Israel DID belong to the Jews (and it is, in my opinion, rightfully theirs). And the arabs didn’t care about giving it up - that is, until the Jews turned it into a perfect Oasis. Now that it is thriving the Arabs are saying “we want it back.” When the Jews arrived there was not much there, and not too many people cared about losing it.
For a group of somewhat intelligent people, it amazes me how everyone has formulated such strong opinions on very little info. My guess is that very few, if any, of the people posting on this forum are either Israeli or Palestinian, or has lived in Isreal or a refugee camp in the West Bank. Yet, how easily we jump to conclusions and opinions about a situation infinitely more complicated than can be explained in a few newspaper articles. A reasonably intelligent person realizes that one can debate the political aspect of the conflict, but the moral, ethical, and social aspects are really only known by those experiencing them directly. Those who insist on arguing or denegrating based on these criteria just come across as ignorant emotional reactionaries. Do not speak of what you do not know.
I believe the post starter, The Bus Driver, is an Israelli. He said a club in Tel Aviv he and his friends go to was bombed… so he at least has the “first hand knowlege” of the situation you speak of. And for the most part it seems he agrees with the general opinions presented in most of the replies.
Yes, Jim H., I’m Israeli. But as I said in one of my posts a long time ago, I’m different from most Israelis in the aspect that I see things from a a slightly different viewpoint than them. I spent 6 years of my life in the United States, and as many of you know, the United States is the most tolerant country in the world. I was taught most of my morals in the U.S. (I was in grade school, Jr. high, and high school there), so when I came back to my country I had a very open mind to the situation. Little by little, I understood that there is no negotiating with those people, and came to my current political stance.
I, of course, being an Israeli, experience the situation first hand. That is why I get so angry when people believe the Palestenians’ take on things. I simply don’t get it. If any of them would ever come to Israel and see how things really are, instead of sitting behind their T.V.'s and spitting out things they know nothing about, they would see how wrong they are. I guess that’s why I attacked angry american, he simply has on clue what he’s saying.
And yes, I agree with most of the general opinions presented here except for the ones obviously attacking Israel (they just don’t understand)
“Israel and America versus the entire world.” All right, you two have irritated me. I know that you two clowns are the minority. I know that the English people and their government have been our most steadfast allies since at least 1918. I know that most reasonable people realize that the English are our largest trading partners. As Churchill said, “We are two countries seperated by a common language.” He would know, he was half American. We have always responded in England’s time of need and the English have reciprocated. I would submit that where America leads, England follows. Therefore, we have a duty to honor this sense of fidelity by engaging in worthwhile overseas commitments. The war on terrorism is definetly a worthwhile engagement.
As far as the protestors and nar-say-wells in Europe go, I say “ho-hum” and “big deal.” We’ll remember those little protests when the next aggressive invader threatens your borders. Where would the Europeans be without the Marshall plan, the Truman plan, or our involvment in WWI and WWII? I know one thing for sure, you would not have the right to stage one of your little protests. You would be wise to remember that when you consider burning our flags. Oh by the way, it would work no great hardship on us to FORCE you to stop burning our flags.
One final point, we must honor or commitments to our allies. Israel is our ally. True friends do not desert one another when the going gets rough. Israel has a right to exist. It has a right to defend it’s borders. The Palestinans have resorted to terrorism. Therefore, any sympathy I might have felt for their cause is gone. When you incite terrorism, your cause automatically becomes invalid.
Your assertion that most reasonable people know that England is America’s largest trading partner proves, once again, that most reasonable people are stupid and ignorant. Canada is America’s largest trading partner.
I was not referring to the governments so much as to the general population. Right now anti-American/anti-Israeli feelings are at an all-time high around the world. BritishMan is right. You can’t argue that.
British man, either you are not representative of your countrymen or you all have lost the protesting spirit. This can be witnessed by the paltry protests organized against George W. Bush. I lived in Ireland and the UK for a while, and was VERY sensitive to anti-American sentiment. I would say that for every person who would like to burn an American flag, there are five hundred thousand people who either like Americans or don’t give a shit about America one way or the other. We can get more protesters than that together to complain about movies we don’t like. Hell, as many people showed up in Dublin to boo FORMER President Clinton last year as there are now booing Dubya.
Burn all the flags you want. We find it irritating, tasteless and ungrateful, but ultimately not that big a deal. In fact, it’s protected in our lawbooks as an expression of free speech.
However, if you kill our citizens then you will have to pay the piper.
Gee, you really missed the point of LightandFluffy’s post, didn’t you?
ThirdEye, Canada is not our largest trading partner. Look it up. Then respond with your apologies. Oh, by the way, read the rest of my previous post.