Why America Sucks in Olympic Weightlifting?

Training Powerlifting
101

[quote]bomber221 wrote:
For most people that make it to the Olympics, their sport is not fun… it’s life.

…

chigishev went something like 8 months without seeing his wife or kid because of training. reassess what you think commitment is in strength sports before you think americans train hard in weightlifting.

two possible reasons they don’t train this hard is because of testing and lack of funding/motivational reward system. the governments pay athletes pretty well if they win a medal. Ilya Ilin made close to 200,000$ for his gold medal and he is 20 years old.

if you have not read naim suleymanoglu’s biography you really should, especially before commenting on whether or not americans train hard relative to the rest of the world. it is a great motivational book even if you are not a weightlifter.
[/quote]

QFT.

I was in China last summer and they have huge numbers of people willing to dedicate their lives 100% to Weightlifting (& and other sports). They’ll totally neglect study and just train as much as possible all the time from as young as 9 or 10. They’ll spend more time with their coach then their parents.

And if they don’t make it as a top Olympian they have nothing to fall back on. Most will just go back to their home town (or depending on how far they got in the sport maybe a bigger city) and start a weightlifting club and kinda repeat the whole process all over again with the next generation. Like bomber said the sport is their life they have nothing else.

It is because they have so many of these people who dedicated their lives to Weightlifting that the sport is being carried forward from generation to generation. There are more local weightlifting clubs, more coaches and more people doing weightlifting.

It is difficult for any country to develop this. America had this at one stage. America had the best Weightlifters in the world but for whatever reasons (most already discussed in this thread) they lost this, it didn’t get carried forward to the next generation and it’s gonna be hard for America to regain this.

102

nobody cares about olylifting.

i go to a school with over 10.000 students and i am the only one i have ever seen do an olympic lift.

103

I think I’ve found another reason.

Some of the worst clean form in the world. I know none of these guys want to compete oly lifting but they are certainly not helping by being oblivious to what proper form is. In one of the vids there is what appears to be a coach sitting and watching and clapping as his athlete does “hang cleans”.

104

Duh this one is easy to answer, because here in America we’re busy lifting to look good naked.

← joking don’t flame! lol

105

[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:
I think I’ve found another reason.

Some of the worst clean form in the world. I know none of these guys want to compete oly lifting but they are certainly not helping by being oblivious to what proper form is. In one of the vids there is what appears to be a coach sitting and watching and clapping as his athlete does “hang cleans”.[/quote]

Serious lack of technical capability.

106

[quote]BAdWolf wrote:
I know there are some strong as hell powerlifters, but why the dominance in the Olympic weightlifting is in europe/asia? even tought if any lifter can handle more than 200kg in america is good.

I want you guys opinion thanks.[/quote]

Hmm how popular is powerlifting in the rest of the world (outside America) anyway? I live in an Asian country, and to be honest, I’m pretty sure over 90% of my friends (no exaggeration) have no idea what a powerlifter is. Then again, about 50% probably have no idea what a weightlifter is either, so. I have no idea whether this is the situation in other countries…

107

[quote]Vanre wrote:
BAdWolf wrote:
I know there are some strong as hell powerlifters, but why the dominance in the Olympic weightlifting is in europe/asia? even tought if any lifter can handle more than 200kg in america is good.

I want you guys opinion thanks.

Hmm how popular is powerlifting in the rest of the world (outside America) anyway? I live in an Asian country, and to be honest, I’m pretty sure over 90% of my friends (no exaggeration) have no idea what a powerlifter is. Then again, about 50% probably have no idea what a weightlifter is either, so. I have no idea whether this is the situation in other countries…[/quote]

i think PLing is pretty much limited to europe and north america maybe in Japan or Korea also because of the american influence over there, im guessing if theres Japanese BBers there might be Japanese PLers but my guess its a very, very small number.

i dont even think weightlifting of any kind is popular in south america. this is kind of off topic but i work in a resturaunt with an exclusively latin american kitchen staff and because of my size - especially compared to them - they just assume im Bosnian, Russian, Estonian, etc. its kind of funny.

108

I like how in the second video they have a “judge” of sorts calling that a good lift. Haha.

109

So much of it is Olympic lifting gets last pick out of BB, Powerlifters, and football players in this country. I can count the number of lifters I’ve seen in gyms practicing the Oly lifts on one hand. If young guys don’t even know if they are good at something they can’t gravitate to it.

The ruggers to American Football comparison made me laugh my ass off. Aussie rules football is a good bit more physical and it ain’t half of what American Football is. I really don’t see how anyone makes this comparison…The time between plays in AF allow for the game to be played at a much higher intensity level and overall speed then Rugby.

I just don’t see how the example of some rugby team beating a AF team at AF is possible…unless the American team was like the leading prep school for unathletic rich kids. As far as I know there wasn’t a single Euro player from the WFL to make it in the NFL.

110

[quote]GDI Inc wrote:
So much of it is Olympic lifting gets last pick out of BB, Powerlifters, and football players in this country. I can count the number of lifters I’ve seen in gyms practicing the Oly lifts on one hand. If young guys don’t even know if they are good at something they can’t gravitate to it.
…
[/quote]

I don’t think that Oly lifting gets last pick from BB and Powerlifters (it does for Football but every sport gets last pick from Football). The thing is that most Bodybuilders and Powerlifters start engaging in their sport after the age of 16. This is much too late to start Olympic Lifting if you want to be a world champion. So in that sense Powerlifting and Bodybuilding aren’t really in direct competition. Sure it would be great for oly lifting if every powerlifter and bodybuilder suddenly decided to switch to being a competitive olympic weightlifter but I don’t think that would result in a sweep of medals at the next olympics.

The biggest problem is that there isn’t enough 10-16 year olds doing Oly lifting. I’d say one of the best ways to make a country better in the long run in Oly lifting they would turn their attention on the youths. Try and reverse the idea that parents and the media have that Weightlifting is bad for young people. There is nothing wrong with 10-16 year olds learning the techniques of olympic weightlifting. Most of the time they’ll be using broom handles and an empty barbell and steadily progressing with weights they can handle.

Nearly every person I meet says weightlifting is bad for kids. But there are published studies on the benefits of weightlifting for kids (as long as there is a coach there), as in reduced risk of injury if they engage in other sports and increased bone density. This webpage has a load of articles on it listed at the bottom of the page:

http://www.qwa.org/parents/content.asp

It is difficult enough to find kids interested in weightlifting without parents and even some medical professionals thinking that weightlifting will make the kid shorter or any other nonsense like that. So long as they are supervised by a proper Olympic Weightlifting Coach I would argue that weightlifting is just as safe as Football, Baseball and any other sports that kids engage in. If only Olympic weightlifting could be seen as just another sport that a kid can play rather than some dangerous activity reserved for grown-ups.

111

[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:
Nearly every person I meet says weightlifting is bad for kids. But there are published studies on the benefits of weightlifting for kids (as long as there is a coach there), as in reduced risk of injury if they engage in other sports and increased bone density. This webpage has a load of articles on it listed at the bottom of the page:

http://www.qwa.org/parents/content.asp

It is difficult enough to find kids interested in weightlifting without parents and even some medical professionals thinking that weightlifting will make the kid shorter or any other nonsense like that. So long as they are supervised by a proper Olympic Weightlifting Coach I would argue that weightlifting is just as safe as Football, Baseball and any other sports that kids engage in. If only Olympic weightlifting could be seen as just another sport that a kid can play rather than some dangerous activity reserved for grown-ups.[/quote]

I totally agree! Heck, I’m 18 years old and my parents still bug me every other week to stop lifting cos it’s “bad for me” or “injures me” or something, although they have no idea what I do in the gym. It’s this kind of old-fashioned thinking that only professional athletes need to lift weights that keeps kids from weightlifting (and weight training in general). Sigh.

112

To say Eastern Europeans as a whole are geneticallu dissimilar from the rest is retarded. There is much diversity in the Eastern European pop as in the Latin American one, a Lithuanian is entirely different from an Albanian, saying that they somehow share some proto-human super strong gene is just retarded.

Btw, Celts, the primary populations of the majority of the home nations of the UK, are tribes originally from Eastern Europe.

113

[quote]Vanre wrote:
I totally agree! Heck, I’m 18 years old and my parents still bug me every other week to stop lifting cos it’s “bad for me” or “injures me” or something, although they have no idea what I do in the gym. It’s this kind of old-fashioned thinking that only professional athletes need to lift weights that keeps kids from weightlifting (and weight training in general). Sigh.
[/quote]

You should print them out the page I gave:
http://www.qwa.org/parents/content.asp

Imagine if you were 12 years old instead of 18 and wanted to do weightlifting, maybe because you wanted to someday win an Olympic medal. Your parents would probably have a fit. Now instead imagine that you wanted to do any other Olympic Sport such as wrestling, swimming, gymnastics, track & field, etc. and wanted to someday win an Olympic medal your parents would see no problem with you starting at age 10, they’d encourage an early start.

The parents out there don’t know anything about Weightlifting and its this ignorance that is stopping the sport becoming more popular among kids. They don’t realise that Olympic lifting is quite technical and that future Olympic Medallists need to start at a young age so that they can perfect the technique with light weights.

All of us who have started Oly lifting at 18+ years old know how frustrating it is to have to knock all the weights off the bar and practice technique, especially when we’re already deadlifting and squating >2 times BW. Imagine instead if we had spent ages 10-16 getting the technique perfect. Then by 18 we’d using weights that were representative of our actual strength.

114

Here is some more BS that is slowing down Olympic Lifting. The American Academy of Paediatrics has the following on weights and kids:
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;121/4/835

In this they say kids shouldn’t engage in Powerlifting and Bodybuilding. Now I’m not about to start arguing on the behalf of these activities but they also indirectly say kids shouldn’t engage in Olympic Weightlifting:

“Because of the limited research regarding prepubertal injury rates in competitive weightlifting, the AAP remains hesitant to support participation by children who are skeletally immature and is opposed to childhood involvement in power lifting, body building, or use of the 1-repetition maximum lift as a way to determine gains in strength.”

As in they don’t recommend the use of 1RM which essentially eliminates Olympic Lifting as an option for children. Now if you read through the whole article you’ll see that they give no evidence or reasoning as to why this should be avoided. Whereas they do give evidence on Olympic Lifting being safe but they assert that there is “limited research” in the area.

Found another page:
http://www.lsus.edu/weightlifting/Papers%20Presented2.htm

which picks to pieces the AAP’s arguments against lack of research stating numerous studies on children engaged in competitive weightlifting in America. The page in support says it best:
“anecdotal reports and conjecture regarding injury continue to limit early participation and possibly eventual potential for success”

It is clear prejudice against Olympic Lifting as a sport by the American Academy of Paediatrics. It is their recommendations against Olympic Weightlifting that need to be fixed before weightlifting can get any further.

115

i totally agree with the idea of the pussification of the US meaning that theres soooo many people who would cringe and write lengthy emails to Oprah at the mere thought of a 12 year old and a barbell.

parents are more likely to push their kids into softer sports like swimming or soccer these days. plus theres certain sports which just take presidence in america, regardless of any kind of weightlifting. things like basketball and baseball, im sure anyone who’s american played those as a kid.

now if you grew up in Ukraine or Lithuania your choices may not have been so vast, theres soccer and weightlifting especially if you want a chance to make some money for yourself or more likely if your parents want you to make some money.

116

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i dont even think weightlifting of any kind is popular in south america. [/quote]

I’d imagine it must still be more popular there than the US since Latin and South American countries can regularly produce plenty of elite level weightlifters.

117

[quote]HBergeron wrote:
cheeta wrote:
HBergeron wrote:
I’ve heard that a big problem is that American weightlifters pretty much have to be clean all year, because of random drug testing. In many other countries, they just have to be clean in time for major competitions.

Not sure if this explains it all, but I think some big US weightlifting coaches have made that claim.

yeah your weightlifters are clean alright (rofl)

Well, here’s a quote from Greg Everett, a top weightlifting coach in the USA. Source: www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=33028&highlight=drug+testing+weightlifting&page=9

"As has been mentioned, it’s because the US has the most rigorous drug testing program for its athletes. Our lifters are tested monthly, no-announce. On the other hand, lifters from the leading countries are able to go essentially year-round on the gear.

Look at the numbers from this Olympics alone. 11 out of 14 of the Greek team popped. The entire Bulgarian team wihdrawn to prevent national embarrassment. Numerous individual competitors popped. There’s no big mystery behind the disparity.

Again, when you go back in history to when the playing field was level, American weightlifters were at the top of the game and setting world records."[/quote]

Yeah, you can check it out–
It was in 1956, I think, when the Olympics were held in Melbourne, that the U.S. won in Olympic WL hands down (and BTW, I think Tommy Kono, who’s quite elderly now, won his weight class that year, and a year or so later got the Mr. Universe title, or some big mucky-muck BB title).

Anyway,
it’s been downhill for the U.S. in Olympic WL ever since - except in the Masters’ division. We do OK there (and again BTW, Mr. Thib, in one of his columns here at T-Mag, mentioned Emory Chevrier, who is one strong old dude. I lifted against him a couple of times). But Emery is a natural strong man. There are such types.

My personal view - and I can’t prove it - is that some people have certain genetic properties that MAY come from Neanderthal ancestors, and this is not meant to be a slight.

Anybody who’s been watching the various science channels likely will have seen some of these programs about the Neanderthals and a current “take” on them which is that our nearer Cro-Magnon ancestors didn’t wipe them out but rather absorbed them. Food for thought.

118

[quote]Dominator wrote:
Dr. Manhattan wrote:
I doubt you can safely say that. I wonder how many lifters you talk to, and what part of the country they are in. On the east coast, that is just not the norm whatsoever - and I know most of the better lifters on this side of the country. In fact, the general feeling among athletes over here is fear of getting caught for ANYTHING whatsoever because no one wants to be suspended for a year.

Well, there’s always the rumors about East Coast Gold lifters being on something…

I have to say that USAW has seemed to ramp up their drug testing stance to the point that more athletes are thinking twice now. Again, I think this is done all as a front to cover how poor a job they are doing at developing any talented lifters.

[/quote]

East Coast Gold lifters being on something? To the best of my knowledge they’re on Leo Totten, their coach. They don’t come much better than Leo.

 Shortly after the 2004 Olympics I asked Leo WTH was with the women's WL there?  The two American girls were the only one that looked human.  The girl from Thailand, who I expected would at least resemble something off of the Asian Vixen's thread, looked like a dragon.  The girl from Poland looked like a horse.

And that heavyweight thing from China, the one who hoisted 190 kilos or something like that , looked like a lab experiment gone bad. When I asked Leo about it, he just smiled kind of sadly and said, “Yeah, we’re still fighting that one…”

119

[quote]Ragnarthehammer wrote:
Dominator wrote:
Dr. Manhattan wrote:
I doubt you can safely say that. I wonder how many lifters you talk to, and what part of the country they are in. On the east coast, that is just not the norm whatsoever - and I know most of the better lifters on this side of the country. In fact, the general feeling among athletes over here is fear of getting caught for ANYTHING whatsoever because no one wants to be suspended for a year.

Well, there’s always the rumors about East Coast Gold lifters being on something…

I have to say that USAW has seemed to ramp up their drug testing stance to the point that more athletes are thinking twice now. Again, I think this is done all as a front to cover how poor a job they are doing at developing any talented lifters.

East Coast Gold lifters being on something? To the best of my knowledge they’re on Leo Totten, their coach. They don’t come much better than Leo.

 Shortly after the 2004 Olympics I asked Leo WTH was with the women's WL there?  The two American girls were the only one that looked human.  The girl from Thailand, who I expected would at least resemble something off of the Asian Vixen's thread, looked like a dragon.  The girl from Poland looked like a horse.

And that heavyweight thing from China, the one who hoisted 190 kilos or something like that , looked like a lab experiment gone bad. When I asked Leo about it, he just smiled kind of sadly and said, “Yeah, we’re still fighting that one…”[/quote]

Ah yeah… it’s all the drugs. Nice cop out.

120

The football argument is BS, since the vast majority of weightlifters are way too small to play football (or basketball). And it would be obvious from the beginning, since they are short.