Why America Sucks in Olympic Weightlifting?

Training Powerlifting
121

[quote]toddthebod wrote:
The football argument is BS, since the vast majority of weightlifters are way too small to play football (or basketball). And it would be obvious from the beginning, since they are short.[/quote]

I know what mean with regard to no NFL player would be a weightlifter and vice versa. The point is rather that every mildly athletic kid does (or is told to do) football. How many Americans spend all of their youth (10-16) playing Football and never even make it to a good college team. Also when you are starting out at 10 years old its not that obvious how tall you are going to be (i.e. all kids are short when they are 10).

But it is pointless even discussing Football as an issue because nothings going to change with regard to Football. Football is always going to poach the fast\athletic kids and then throw them away when it turns out they are never going to grow past 5’9". The main point is we want to expose more kids to weightlifting letting them know that it is there as another sport they can practise.

In fact what might be a good way to get kids engaged in weightlifting is to get the Footballers (or kids in any popular sport really) training weightlifting from a young age to supplement the Football. And actually get them to learn the weightlifting from a proper Weightlifting coach not the Football coach (the youtube videos show what happens otherwise).

They could build up a really good base in the technique of weightlifting from 10-14 so then when they really need the strength at 15-18 they won’t injure themselves (watch the guys in the vids doing 300+ in hang cleans; injuries waiting to happen). Also the way the guys in the vids are doing the hang cleans probably isn’t going to help them on the pitch as much as if they could actually do proper hang cleans\power cleans (imagine if the Footballers were actually able to do power snatches as well!), so learning the technique will help them.

On top of this maybe some of the kids who are bad at football but okay\good at weightlifting will quit the football sooner then they would have otherwise and join weightlifting full time. This approach would probably pick off any of the short footballers and safe them from wasting athletic ability when in the end their height is going to be their downfall regardless.

122

[quote]dfreezy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i dont even think weightlifting of any kind is popular in south america.

I’d imagine it must still be more popular there than the US since Latin and South American countries can regularly produce plenty of elite level weightlifters.[/quote]

o rly?

links?

123

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
dfreezy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i dont even think weightlifting of any kind is popular in south america.

I’d imagine it must still be more popular there than the US since Latin and South American countries can regularly produce plenty of elite level weightlifters.

o rly?

links?[/quote]

Yes Really: http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/Schedule/WL.shtml

Take a look through the results of 77’s through 94’s. You’ll quickly see Columbia, Venezuela and Ecuador each have a lifter in those classes, and actually do better than our lifters. Further, those countries routinely route us at Pan Ams, except in Olympic years when they are tapering their best athletes for the Olympics.

124

This is my opinion about my issue, take it for what its worth:

You can’t compare the States to a country like China or certain countries of Europe. The development of their athletes is systematic. They take athletes from very a young age, select the best of the best, then train them for the single task of Weightlifting. Furthermore the state funds these programs and as a result, every aspect from Training and Recovery to Diet and Drugs is taken care of. When you have a huge talent pool, pick the best one, then pump all your resources into this individual and surround them with equally talented athletes, you will end up with something pretty special.

I don’t believe the states are losing due to bad coaching or inadaquete funding. The “secrets” of weightlifting have been known for years and America has adaquete funding. I believe its simply due to the differences in the methods for developing the athletes of the country.

125

[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
dfreezy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i dont even think weightlifting of any kind is popular in south america.

I’d imagine it must still be more popular there than the US since Latin and South American countries can regularly produce plenty of elite level weightlifters.

o rly?

links?

Yes Really: http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/Schedule/WL.shtml

Take a look through the results of 77’s through 94’s. You’ll quickly see Columbia, Venezuela and Ecuador each have a lifter in those classes, and actually do better than our lifters. Further, those countries routinely route us at Pan Ams, except in Olympic years when they are tapering their best athletes for the Olympics.[/quote]

After looking through the links I noticed that Cuba are pretty damn solid for such a small country.

56kgs mens 6th ALVAREZ Sergio Cuba
69kgs mens 4th BORRERO Yordanis Cuba
77kgs mens 6th CAMBAR Ivan Cuba
85kgs mens 5th VALLADARES Jadier Cuba
…etc

I think there might be a few more in the top tens in the different categories but I think you get my drift. What the hell are Cuba doing?

126

This page is easier to read off results:
http://au.sports.yahoo.com/olympics/sports/results/-/weightlifting

Searching for USA we get:

Women’s +75kg 6th USA Cheryl Haworth 259kgs(11kgs from Bronze)
Men’s 77-85kg 8th USA Kenny Farris 362kgs(18kgs from Bronze)
Men’s 69-77kg DNF USA Chad Vaughn 147kgs(18kgs from Bronze Snatch)
Women 58-63kg 12th USA Natalie Woolfolk 211kgs(20kgs from Bronze)
Women 58-63kg 14th USA Carissa Gump 204kgs(27kgs from Bronze)
Women 48-53kg 6th USA Melanie Roach 193kgs(20kgs from Bronze)

They had no one in the remaining categories:
Men’s over 105 kg
Men’s 94-105 kg
Men’s 85-94 kg
Women’s 69-75 kg
Women’s 63-69 kg
Men’s 62-69 kg
Men’s 56-62 kg
Women’s 53-58 kg
Men’s under 56 kg
Women’s under 48 kg

127

[quote]HBergeron wrote:
cheeta wrote:
HBergeron wrote:
I’ve heard that a big problem is that American weightlifters pretty much have to be clean all year, because of random drug testing. In many other countries, they just have to be clean in time for major competitions.

Not sure if this explains it all, but I think some big US weightlifting coaches have made that claim.

yeah your weightlifters are clean alright (rofl)

Well, here’s a quote from Greg Everett, a top weightlifting coach in the USA. Source: http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=33028&highlight=drug+testing+weightlifting&page=9

"As has been mentioned, it’s because the US has the most rigorous drug testing program for its athletes. Our lifters are tested monthly, no-announce. On the other hand, lifters from the leading countries are able to go essentially year-round on the gear.

Look at the numbers from this Olympics alone. 11 out of 14 of the Greek team popped. The entire Bulgarian team withdrawn to prevent national embarrassment. Numerous individual competitors popped. There’s no big mystery behind the disparity.

Again, when you go back in history to when the playing field was level, American weightlifters were at the top of the game and setting world records."[/quote]

After looking closely at the results of Beijing 2008, I think I’ll have to agree with Hanley on this one. You can’t possibly blame USA’s performance on drugs alone.

Even in the quote the coach says that Greek and Bulgaria was gone in 08 due to doping. But USA didn’t sweep the medals since the dopers were caught.

The coach says in the LEADING countries are able to go year-round on the gear. Now what is Everett’s definition of LEADING COUNTRY. Does he consider every country that is better than USA a leading country? The following all got at least one medal in Beijing 2008:

1 CHN - China
2 KOR - Korea
3 KAZ - Kazakhstan
4 BLR - Belarus
5 PRK - DPR Korea
6 GER - Germany
6 THA - Thailand
8 RUS - Russian Fed.
9 UKR - Ukraine
10 COL - Colombia
10 FRA - France
10 POL - Poland
10 TUR - Turkey
10 VIE - Vietnam
15 ARM - Armenia
16 INA - Indonesia
16 TPE - Chinese Taipei
18 LAT - Latvia

From: http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/WL/C95/WL0000000.shtml#WLM094A01

Does Everett honestly think that all of the athletes from the above 18 countries are on gear all year-round? If Everett is making that kind of allegation then this is very serious and it seems like nearly every single Weightlifter outside the USA is on gear and if they all went off the Gear the US would win everything! Despite the fact that they only had competitors in 6 of the 16 weight classes in Beijing 2008.

The above are only the countries that medalled as well, there is even more countries better than USA at Beijing 2008; as in if we look at all the Country’s athletes who ranked higher than the US athletes.

It is pathetic for Greg Everett to try and blame it on gear alone. Coaches like Everett need to acknowledge that there is more to it than just gear. They need to start rebuilding US weightlifting from the ground up with better youth programs and better organising at the top.

128

[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:
…
Despite the fact that they only had competitors in 6 of the 16 weight classes in Beijing 2008.
…[/quote]

meant 5 out of 15

129

The Cubans are on excellent coaching.

My coach is a Cuban expatriate, and the quality of his programming is amazing–I am on track to have a 40kg increase in my total since October by the end of April.

130

[quote]Invictica wrote:
This is my opinion about my issue, take it for what its worth:

You can’t compare the States to a country like China or certain countries of Europe. The development of their athletes is systematic. They take athletes from very a young age, select the best of the best, then train them for the single task of Weightlifting. Furthermore the state funds these programs and as a result, every aspect from Training and Recovery to Diet and Drugs is taken care of. When you have a huge talent pool, pick the best one, then pump all your resources into this individual and surround them with equally talented athletes, you will end up with something pretty special.

I don’t believe the states are losing due to bad coaching or inadaquete funding. The “secrets” of weightlifting have been known for years and America has adaquete funding. I believe its simply due to the differences in the methods for developing the athletes of the country. [/quote]

Good points. So the States should try and copy these countries methods.

Also I know everyone keeps saying “they” take athletes from a young in in China and Eastern European countries but who is “they”?

From what I’ve seen in China and heard about the Eastern European countries is that often the kids parents will enrol them in Sports Boarding schools. These schools have fees and the fees are not paid for by the government they are paid for by the parents or in some cases by local business men who sponsor the kids. “every aspect from Training and Recovery to Diet and Drugs is taken care of” but not by the government at least not when they start out. They pay fees for coaching.

When they are selected for the national team they get free training, this will be in the form of intensive training camps. When they get a very high level they might train exclusively at the national training centre but until they reach this level they are usually training in a sports boarding school as well training camps. The state funds the national team they do not fund every single person in the country who is practising weightlifting. In a big country like China you can get The Provincial team training with some state funding as well as the national team but not so much in the smaller countries.

Its not that different from the way that Gymnastics (or the other sports the US is good at) is run in the USA. Parents will pay for their kids to get good coaching. Then if the kid is good he will get on the national team and then head to intensive national team training where the State covers the costs.

I think it would be unrealistic to think that the Chinese government (or other countries’ government good at oly lifting) are picking out children from age 10 and catering for their every training needs. The kid’s parents will decide if they want the kid to do weightlifting. If they want the kid to be really good they will pay for him to go to a sports boarding school specialising in weightlifting. The kid will only start getting state support when he gets on the National team even then he won’t start training exclusively in the national training centre until he gets closer to being able to compete at the Olympics.

The big gap occurs at the start in USA. How many parents even think to send their 10 year old to a weightlifting club? How many Weightlifting clubs are out there? Are they advertising at elementary schools and middle schools? What problems are they facing when trying to recruit young members? How can the National Association help the local clubs overcome these recruitment issues?

Then when you have a kid that shows promise is there regular National and even State-level training camps? Not just for +16 years old getting ready for the Olympics but for 10-16 year olds who show promise?

131

[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:

It is pathetic for Greg Everett to try and blame it on gear alone. Coaches like Everett need to acknowledge that there is more to it than just gear. They need to start rebuilding US weightlifting from the ground up with better youth programs and better organising at the top.[/quote]

First off, let’s be a little careful with quoting Everett. He’s a decent guy who is trying to help the sport, but he’s only a club coach and isn’t the accepted authority or expert on anything. (He’ll even say so himself.) The book he wrote is absolutely a beginners book, and he himself has only been competing for 3-4 years.

Its not the steroids alone. Other countries take the sport a lot more seriously, but to ignore the steroid problem is silly. Its not that steroids make people bigger and super strong in the sport, its that they allow people to train at high intensities multiple times a day for a much longer period of time. That will make you significantly better, all other things being held constant.

When this country actually gets a decent number of 10-14 year olds in the sport and keeps them, we will start to become more competitive. The problem is that there are very few incentives to do well or stay in the sport. Even so, countries that promote drug use will still likely be better than us.

132

[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
First off, let’s be a little careful with quoting Everett. He’s a decent guy who is trying to help the sport, but he’s only a club coach and isn’t the accepted authority or expert on anything. (He’ll even say so himself.) The book he wrote is absolutely a beginners book, and he himself has only been competing for 3-4 years.

Its not the steroids alone. Other countries take the sport a lot more seriously, but to ignore the steroid problem is silly. Its not that steroids make people bigger and super strong in the sport, its that they allow people to train at high intensities multiple times a day for a much longer period of time. That will make you significantly better, all other things being held constant.

When this country actually gets a decent number of 10-14 year olds in the sport and keeps them, we will start to become more competitive. The problem is that there are very few incentives to do well or stay in the sport. Even so, countries that promote drug use will still likely be better than us.[/quote]

Sorry for being so hard on Everett.

I think that Steroids are a big issue for the sport. And that doping needs to be taken a lot more seriously by the IWF all the national bodies. I don’t see why any athlete caught with anabolics shouldn’t be banned from Competing in the Olympics for Weightlifting (whatever about worlds and other competitions).

But steroid use in other countries is not really affecting US weightlifting that much. The US are a great example of how Weightlifting anti-doping should be done but they aren’t a great example of how weightlifting should be promoted and improved.

I hope that the US does get a decent number of 10-14 year olds in the sport and becomes more competitive Internationally. Then they would be in a better position to put pressure on the IWF and other national bodies with regard to anti-doping. It’s hard for the US to argue about weightlifting issues when they aren’t even in the top 18 international countries. I don’t think that a country’s team needs to be on gear to break into the top 18.

133

[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:
Good points. So the States should try and copy these countries methods.

Also I know everyone keeps saying “they” take athletes from a young in in China and Eastern European countries but who is “they”?
[/quote]

Actually in China, young athletes really are taken. While it’s true many parents will send their kids to sports camps in the hope that they grow into famous athletes, it’s also true that young children are recruited at a very young age.

Given your screen name, I’m going to assume you’ve done wushu at some point. Over the years I’ve had 3 wushu coaches that were on the Beijing wushu team. They were all selected at a very young age to enter a feeder program. I remember one telling me he started training several hours a day as young as 8. The Beijing team actually has several levels of teams for different age groups so they can grow athletes from the ground up.

Supposedly, a similar thing is done for tall kids and basketball. Tall kids get funneled into playing basketball. The lack of short kids in basketball in China is apparently why they have yet to produce any good point guards.

Anyway, this training system was often debated at Wushu practices. It will never happen here for two reasons.

You can’t select kids at a young age based on size, reflex and speed.
You can’t take kids out of school to train 6 hours a day.

For every athlete that makes it in China, many more wash out. But in China there’s not really a choice. It’s either take a 1 in 100 shot at becoming a pro athlete or stay at home and face an uncertain future. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, only that you can’t apply it to situations in every country.

134

[quote]wushu_1984 wrote:
Dr. Manhattan wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
dfreezy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i dont even think weightlifting of any kind is popular in south america.

I’d imagine it must still be more popular there than the US since Latin and South American countries can regularly produce plenty of elite level weightlifters.

o rly?

links?

Yes Really: http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/Schedule/WL.shtml

Take a look through the results of 77’s through 94’s. You’ll quickly see Columbia, Venezuela and Ecuador each have a lifter in those classes, and actually do better than our lifters. Further, those countries routinely route us at Pan Ams, except in Olympic years when they are tapering their best athletes for the Olympics.

After looking through the links I noticed that Cuba are pretty damn solid for such a small country.

56kgs mens 6th ALVAREZ Sergio Cuba
69kgs mens 4th BORRERO Yordanis Cuba
77kgs mens 6th CAMBAR Ivan Cuba
85kgs mens 5th VALLADARES Jadier Cuba
…etc

I think there might be a few more in the top tens in the different categories but I think you get my drift. What the hell are Cuba doing?[/quote]

94kg mens 6th HERNANDEZ Yohandrys Cuba

There aren’t any 105kg and 105+kg from Cuba in the Olympics. Probably because of lack of food (not joking here).

One thing is for sure fellas, from 1962-1991 Cuba was getting lots of support from the CCCP (USSR). I believe the good coaching and training methods stayed.

I wish I could know more, but I left when I was 14y.o. And the sports programs although still great, they have suffered in recent years.

135

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
Actually in China, young athletes really are taken. While it’s true many parents will send their kids to sports camps in the hope that they grow into famous athletes, it’s also true that young children are recruited at a very young age.

Given your screen name, I’m going to assume you’ve done wushu at some point. Over the years I’ve had 3 wushu coaches that were on the Beijing wushu team. They were all selected at a very young age to enter a feeder program. I remember one telling me he started training several hours a day as young as 8. The Beijing team actually has several levels of teams for different age groups so they can grow athletes from the ground up.

Supposedly, a similar thing is done for tall kids and basketball. Tall kids get funneled into playing basketball. The lack of short kids in basketball in China is apparently why they have yet to produce any good point guards.

Anyway, this training system was often debated at Wushu practices. It will never happen here for two reasons.

You can’t select kids at a young age based on size, reflex and speed.
You can’t take kids out of school to train 6 hours a day.

For every athlete that makes it in China, many more wash out. But in China there’s not really a choice. It’s either take a 1 in 100 shot at becoming a pro athlete or stay at home and face an uncertain future. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, only that you can’t apply it to situations in every country.[/quote]

“Taken” sorry but it is illegal to abduct children in China. I don’t know what you are talking about here. Recruitment happens everywhere. In American schools doesn’t the coach approach kids and ask them if they want to play basketball\football\etc. Whereas it might occur that kids who don’t want to engage in the sport are forced to you will find that these kids, unless they change their attitude about the sport, will never stars. Nobody reluctantly becomes a gold medallist. And a parent must give consent for a child to engage in a sport. So if any forcing is occurring it is most likely occurring with the support of the parents.

Your coaches were asked if they liked to join a Wushu club or team. Their parents agreed and they began training. Training several hours a day from 8 is not a big deal. Michael Phelps did that. Again if your coaches didn’t (at least eventually) like it they wouldn’t have done so well in the sport. As for Beijing team having several levels, of course a team or club should have several levels, this is basic to sustain and grow a club. A weightlifting club should have a team for each age group that compete, U13, U16, Juniors etc. How else can you keep kids involved and interested.

Every young child in China must complete elementary school and middle school. Most will complete high unless there is financial difficulty. Your coaches training several hours a day would have been on top of school work. One of my coaches used to start training at 5am finish at 8am. Go to school. Train again from 6pm to 9pm. This was since he was 9.

You say:
“You can’t select kids at a young age based on size, reflex and speed. You can’t take kids out of school to train 6 hours a day.”

Thats silly. If the sport is popular enough then of course you can and will be selecting kids at a young age based on size, reflex and speed. If you have only room for 15 people in a team (due to number of coachs or whatever) and you get more than 15 kids going for the team, what are you going to do? You have trials and select the best kids. Again think of American football. You have team selections.

The second comment you make is wrong. As I said above every child in China goes to school until the end of middle school at least. Their parents would never let them drop out before that. The kids are not taken out of school to train 6 hours a day. Either they are in a sports boarding school where training is incorporated into the day for them along with lessons or they are going to a normal school and the club training times will be before school and after school. In USA there are kids who train several hours a train. Think of the swimmers like Michael Phelps. Heck even in Ireland we have swimmers who get up and do a 5am-8am session and then a 6pm-9pm session in the evening.

Also I still don’t like this idea of kids being “taken away” in China, it sounds so evil. Its just not true. The kids parents have to pay for membership to these clubs. The coaches are not spending several hours a day coaching kids and then going to work in McDonalds. These coaches are making a living for themselves. A coach would like to have only good people in the club so that his club wins competitions. Then he gets a better reputation as a coach and then he can charge more for membership or even get a better job as a coach in a sports universities or sports boarding schools. These sports boarding schools and universities are all fee paying institutions.

136

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
For every athlete that makes it in China, many more wash out. But in China there’s not really a choice. It’s either take a 1 in 100 shot at becoming a pro athlete or stay at home and face an uncertain future. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, only that you can’t apply it to situations in every country.[/quote]

In china they take their shot at being a pro athlete but if they don’t make they can usually get a job as a coach. Its the same as America with regards to Basketball and Football.

For every Football player in America that makes it into the NFL many more wash out. They take a 1 in 10000 shot at becoming a Pro athlete because they WANT TO because they LIKE FOOTBALL. You make it sound as if in China the people who try to become pro athletes don’t even like sport. That they are forced into it by EVIL coaches abducting children or by extreme poverty. There are loads of people in China who love sport. Who want to become Pro athletes for the same reasons that people in America what to become pro athletes.

Also I have seen the very poor in China and they never have a chance to even think of becoming an pro athlete. They can’t even afford to buy the books or pay the fees for high school, even though its less than $80. They are the farmers and farmer’s children living in the countryside trying to survive off of 1 acre of land. They are the rural people in the far removed countryside. They live miles and miles away from the nearest high school or athletic team\club. The uncertain future you talk about applies to these people, who have no options. There are lots of level of poor in China. Everyone in China is poor compared to the average American but there are plenty of people in China poor compared to the Average Chinese person.

The people who try to become athletes in china are already those in at least the lower middle class. Those that are earning at least $80 a month.

137

You’re right, “taken” doesn’t mean abducting. But it does mean removing kids from their homes at a very young age. You’re also right that these kids may not have been in abject poverty, but $80 a month certainly isn’t wealthy or easy living compared to a lot of places in China.

Giving up a kid to a state run camp means the state is going to look after their welfare for a while and that they might have a chance at greatness. For those lucky enough to get it, it’s a deal that most cannot refuse.

I think you’re glamorizing the subject a bit. Two of my coaches were given degrees from sports universities. Neither of them took any useful coursework for an occupation outside of Wushu. If you’re a Division I athlete in America. If you don’t end up going pro, but you went to university, you can still use your degree to leverage you on a career. One of my coaches ended up going to a local community college to take core classes because he never had during sports university.

My other coach was offered housing and a coaching position back in China, should he need it. He was offered those things because he was a national champ in a few events. How many people end up being national champions? I imagine his deal to be pretty cushy and a lot better than most will get.

Anyway, what I’m getting at is that a system of growing athletes from a very small age in sports without monetary incentive or an opportunity for real fame cannot happen here. It can in China because the state cultivates athletes there. I don’t see the US recruiting athletes from 6 to feed into our Olympic team anytime soon.

138

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
You’re right, “taken” doesn’t mean abducting. But it does mean removing kids from their homes at a very young age. You’re also right that these kids may not have been in abject poverty, but $80 a month certainly isn’t wealthy or easy living compared to a lot of places in China.

Giving up a kid to a state run camp means the state is going to look after their welfare for a while and that they might have a chance at greatness. For those lucky enough to get it, it’s a deal that most cannot refuse.

I think you’re glamorizing the subject a bit. Two of my coaches were given degrees from sports universities. Neither of them took any useful coursework for an occupation outside of Wushu. If you’re a Division I athlete in America. If you don’t end up going pro, but you went to university, you can still use your degree to leverage you on a career. One of my coaches ended up going to a local community college to take core classes because he never had during sports university.

My other coach was offered housing and a coaching position back in China, should he need it. He was offered those things because he was a national champ in a few events. How many people end up being national champions? I imagine his deal to be pretty cushy and a lot better than most will get.

Anyway, what I’m getting at is that a system of growing athletes from a very small age in sports without monetary incentive or an opportunity for real fame cannot happen here. It can in China because the state cultivates athletes there. I don’t see the US recruiting athletes from 6 to feed into our Olympic team anytime soon.

[/quote]

Okay I glamorized it by not giving figures. When I said they can get a coaching job I meant something that would pay maybe +$200 a month (depending on a lot of things such as popularity of the sport and reputation of the coach). Which is okay for China. Your right a house and coaching position in a reputable school is pretty cushy. When you live in China you have to tone down expectations alot with regard to careers and earning. So if they can go from $80 a month (parents) to $200 a month (for child) that might sound attractive. Yeah and you’re right sports university degrees are as useful as toilet paper.

But I will say there are no state run year round facilities for young children. There was +20 years ago when it was a true communist state in China but not any more. The Chinese government will not provide a free Sports Boarding School setup for any young kid. Its too much of a gamble, like you said its at best 1 out of the 100 will make it big. Thats not good return on money.

There are National Teams and Provincial Teams that will organise free intensive training camps but they aren’t going to foot the full bill for any 6-10 year old’s training all year round. When they get older and show genuine Olympic promise then they might get more government support but until then the parents will provide the bulk of the training costs for the kids.

If the parents have the money they will send the kid to a Sports Boarding School. If they don’t have as much money they’ll bring the kid to the local sports club for training. But they have to pay. The State isn’t going to pay for all the training costs of all potential youths aged 6-10. That doesn’t happen any more in China. True State-run Communism is not in effect in modern China.

The state doesn’t recruit and cultivate 6 year olds. Parents, local clubs and sports boarding schools recruit and cultivate the 6 year olds. If the 6 year olds win competitions as they get older then the state will invite them to take part in national training camps.

But they won’t switch 100% to state-run facilities until at least when they are selected for the proper Olympic squad from which the people that will compete at the next olympics (i.e. in 4 years time) are selected. Also the state doesn’t provide all the money for these programs either they get corporate sponsorship from Nike, Adidas, Li Ning, etc. Also by that stage a lot of the guys on the Olympic Teams in China will have their own sponsorship deals. When I was in China it was actually cool to see weightlifters in ads and on billboards.

The Chinese government doesn’t spend its money on providing free training for 6-10 year olds.

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i’ve read through every post now and i’m going slightly off the topic at hand now but i pose the question: what’s wrong with steroids? so they make you recover better so you can train harder, bad stuff right there. it was argued that most other countries are on them, well if everyone is on them, why not make them legal? are people afraid of athletes beating records because they did everything to be as strong as possible? i see making steroid use legal as leveling the playing field a little among countries, if you don’t agree and still think it’s cheating, then ask yourself what is cheating.

because cuba may not have enough food to provide 105kg and 105+kg lifters is it cheating that we as americans have a ridiculous over eating problem and have plenty of food? since other countries have better training programs than we do, is that cheating? or are you just using all of your resources to your full advantage, well that kind of sounds unfair and not a level playing field, well guess what, some people have better genetics to begin with and better training and better food and what not, the only thing people have access to across the board is steroids. do they magically make someone into an elite caliber athlete…no.

if i took them would i magically run a 9.7 second 100m race and beat carl lewis…no. we want to have top performing athletes but we don’t want to know what people do to get there, and if you tell us we will look down on you for trying to be the best you can be at what you do. so answer me why they are so bad and detrimental to our athletics, is it because people will get better? yet in a medical sense they can be considered a miracle drug, sooooo how can this drug that is good in a medical sense be bad for athletes, and please no after school special or mother type shit reply.

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[quote]2-SCOOPS wrote:
i’ve read through every post now and i’m going slightly off the topic at hand now but i pose the question: what’s wrong with steroids? so they make you recover better so you can train harder, bad stuff right there. it was argued that most other countries are on them, well if everyone is on them, why not make them legal? are people afraid of athletes beating records because they did everything to be as strong as possible?

i see making steroid use legal as leveling the playing field a little among countries, if you don’t agree and still think it’s cheating, then ask yourself what is cheating.

because cuba may not have enough food to provide 105kg and 105+kg lifters is it cheating that we as americans have a ridiculous over eating problem and have plenty of food? since other countries have better training programs than we do, is that cheating? or are you just using all of your resources to your full advantage, well that kind of sounds unfair and not a level playing field, well guess what, some people have better genetics to begin with and better training and better food and what not, the only thing people have access to across the board is steroids.

do they magically make someone into an elite caliber athlete…no. if i took them would i magically run a 9.7 second 100m race and beat carl lewis…no. we want to have top performing athletes but we don’t want to know what people do to get there, and if you tell us we will look down on you for trying to be the best you can be at what you do. so answer me why they are so bad and detrimental to our athletics, is it because people will get better?

yet in a medical sense they can be considered a miracle drug, sooooo how can this drug that is good in a medical sense be bad for athletes, and please no after school special or mother type shit reply. [/quote]

There can be some health issues when administering steroids to children especially girls.

But I definitely see some of your points. What is cheating? I thought “Bigger, Faster, Stronger*” did a good take on this. The guy with the high altitude sleep chamber was great!

Honestly though no international organisation especially one such as the IOC would condone or allow steroid use. The issue is mostly political with a side order of health issues (though they won’t allow research involving steroids so alot of the health issues are hypothetical).

I think if they did more research on steroid usage the issue would move away from being political to being a health and medical science issue. Alas this issue is not up for discussion with the IOC or any politically minded organisation.

My personal opinion is to keep it drug free for the competitions and perform extensive medical research on Steroid usage before even considering revising this position.