That’s SILVERDAN7 hitting it out of the park.
I’m not saying that little guy is crossfit_infidel as that was the first image to come up when I searched for “out of the park”.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I would say the main problem I have with it is that sport is specialization. That’s (IMO) what makes sport worth paying attention to and worth doing. I watch baseball to see the people best able to hit a ball or play the field IN THE WORLD. I watch hockey to see the best in the world on ice with a puck. I swam to adapt my body to make it the best I could at going as fast as possible in the water.
I like bodybuilding because the guys push their bodies to carry as much muscle as possible. Crossfit lacks that. I wouldn’t want to watch a mediocre swimmer swim, then a mediocre powerlifter deadlift, then a mediocre runner run, and lastly a moderately muscular guy pose when there are people out there much much better at each of those things.
That’s fine for whoever wants to be those things and do that, but it just doesn’t make sense to me. I say pick something and get as good as you can at it.[/quote]
That’s just like your opinion bro…
In all seriousness, your articulating a cultural trend.
Back in the day, for example, the most popular Olympic events were the competitions the decathlon (one guy: ten events… yes it’s still around) where the winner could lay claim to best over-all fitness or athleticism.
Lately, we’re not as interested in that, and prefer specialization… probably because more and more we’re spectators rather than doers.
I don’t like crossfit, but I like that as an aim.
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]crossfit_infidel wrote:
[quote]Nards wrote:
But even the fact that people can have “falling outs” with CrossFit is worrying.
[/quote]
Really?? How is any relationship perfect? I thought we were talking about a community full of alpha types? I would really like to know what really went down with some of the falling outs I guess…I could care less what some people put in there blog after they had been released or walked away.[/quote]
So you want to know but are unwilling to believe that you can get an accurate picture from four or five blog posts from different people with different perspectives. What would you suggest, that somehow talking to people face to face would allow you to be more clear about the facts. Both sides of the story are out there, it’s not that hard to compare them. I dont like to speculate, I would like to hear what you have to say , but when I hear this argument I cant help but think that this wouldnt be your stance if there were more blog posts agreeing with you than vice versa.[/quote]
I read all of your posts…you make good points I think you ignored the fact that I said I see some issues with Crossfit…I understand there is gonna be a problems and its not the end all be all fitness program…I read some blogs and watched a video of Dave Castro pokin fun at the situation but I guess I don’t care enough to really take a stance…I also said they didn’t come up with anything new they took some training methods and gave it an Identity and a large group of people embraced it…I happen to think its a good thing that people are trying different training styles…I thought it sucked when Rip and Wolf left but why would I care and why would I let it bother me…They went out and found new coaches to push a product which makes me happy…Its not like Dave Castro stepped in and started doing the strength cert or the nutrition cert he went out and found good people who wanted to do it…Crossfit has issues I get it…I guess it comes down to Crossfit works for me and alot of people I work and train with…I would be curious to see what you would say is a good program for people that want to be functional and have to have a high level of fitness to do there job?
In all seriousness, your articulating a cultural trend.
Back in the day, for example, the most popular Olympic events were the competitions the decathlon (one guy: ten events… yes it’s still around) where the winner could lay claim to best over-all fitness or athleticism.
Lately, we’re not as interested in that, and prefer specialization… probably because more and more we’re spectators rather than doers.
I don’t like crossfit, but I like that as an aim.[/quote]
OK, I may be wrong because I am replying to your post without reading the one you replied to but, Bryan Clay (American Decathlete) trains for his events by… training his events. A decatlete will train for the specific tasks they need to perform because they are in fact specific. There are ten of them, but they are ten highly specific skills. Training a Gen. Fitness Program for most sports is not accurate. Something like the CFFB program is pretty good though, and one which fits the demands of the game of football, not training for the combine/tryouts which is what man y strength coacjes make their bread and butter on.
I read all of your posts…you make good points I think you ignored the fact that I said I see some issues with Crossfit…I understand there is gonna be a problems and its not the end all be all fitness program…I read some blogs and watched a video of Dave Castro pokin fun at the situation but I guess I don’t care enough to really take a stance…
I also said they didn’t come up with anything new they took some training methods and gave it an Identity and a large group of people embraced it…I happen to think its a good thing that people are trying different training styles…I thought it sucked when Rip and Wolf left but why would I care and why would I let it bother me…They went out and found new coaches to push a product which makes me happy…
Its not like Dave Castro stepped in and started doing the strength cert or the nutrition cert he went out and found good people who wanted to do it…Crossfit has issues I get it…I guess it comes down to Crossfit works for me and alot of people I work and train with…I would be curious to see what you would say is a good program for people that want to be functional and have to have a high level of fitness to do there job?[/quote]
I agree. And you are right I did and have a tendency too do is “miss” someones point that may throw a kink in my current argument:) And what works for you/ makes you happy is my major philosophy towards fitness. I say to people do anything you want, as long as you are working hard and switching it up regularly. CF fits these requirements no?
Your second question is a bit tougher, but I assume you are talking about the physical professions where CF has developed a strong following like, firefighters, police and the military. I like an emphasis on strength first, conditioning second, rather than aerobic fitness with a strength element. I think that the demanding physical aspects of these jobs will be aided as much if not more by a serious strength base than an aerobic one.
An intelligently designed strength program will also keep you moving in a way that will improve your aerobic resp. As a frame of ref. Cressey’s Maximum Strength is a great One. YOu have four strength days structured like movement prep → main lift> accessory lifts suoerset. You then have multiple energy system/cardo options. My thinking on this is that rarely do we need an elite level of conditioning, so why focus on that as our main element when stength is more often a limiting factor in our day to day lives.
Also, while i do not work in extreme sit. I feel like it is possible that in a high pressure situation the adrenaline surge is great enough to actually surpass our fitness levels.
But like I said, I think the most imp. aspect is to find something you enjoy enough that you can consistently get motivated to show up and put in work. I have realized after much trial that I enjoy pushing myself with more maximal weights. I like doing heavy weighted box jumps for power, rather than high reps, thats just what makes me tick. I also have always been small with superior cond. Which has led to many of my goals being more 1rm oriented.
One last thought. I am an incredibly antiestablishment type of person. In an ironic way CF has become the fitness establishment for the antiestablishment crowd. While it’s orig. intentions were to always be one, CF is no longer a grassroots orgin. Regardless of how they want to spin it.
The oginization is fast becoming a fitness industry staple/standard, and as we have discussed there are the seeds of lowered standards and control freak mentalities that dominate the profit first corp. mentality. There are many great CF coaches and gyms, they are unfortunately under the same umbrella as the bad ones.
Not gonna waste my effort on crossfit. Have fun swinging around the bar like a chimpanzee with down syndrome
[quote]SquatDeepHomie wrote:
Scientific Reasons for hating crossfit
-
No periodization - Today lets do 100 pull ups. Tomorrow lets do 200 lunges with 400 meter sprints every 60 seconds. Wednesday lets do Fran. Thursday lets do Squats for 3x6 and then do 100 wall balls…WTF?
-
No scientific base - We train high intensity…Bullshit. Intensity is what percentage weight you’re using, not how hard you’re working. Most all weight is low intensity because it is low weight for high reps.
-
No logic - Why wouldn’t you want to work on strength AND conditioning at the same time? Bullshit. Strength and muscular endurance have a direct inverse corelation. Meaning, you can’t get strong and conditioned in the same exercise. You are crossing to many intensity zones. You can get better conditioned, but you can’t get stronger. Many peer reviewed articles have discussed this.
-
Skewing science for personal gain - I had a crossfitter show me an article written by some prominent crossfitter explaining how the most power output capability is produced at an intensity of 35% 1RM. Very True. The article continued to explain that crossfit is the best way to increase power because most exercises work in that 35% 1RM mode but they do it for 20-50 reps so they are producing alot more power. That is where the science is skewed. Elite level athletes can maintain power for up to 6 reps. The rest of us see our power output deminish after 3 reps. Meaning after 3 reps you are no longer training power, just doing a shit load of reps for conditioning.
Personal Reasons for Hating Crossfit
-
Crossfit is a fucking cult that thinks they are an elite group of athletes that have the magic fucking bullet to make the world an athletically elite place. Fuck that. Elite athletes are making money by professionally pursuing their discipline, or are getting school payed for because they are still in college. There are some former elite athletes that do crossfit, but they are past their prime. If you train at a crossfit gym with a former gymnast or former volleyball player, that doesn’t make you elite, it makes them has been elites.
-
I’ve never walked up to a stranger and said hey do you powerlift? You dont? Well you should! And then try to convince them why powerlifting is supreme. Why the fuck do all you crossfitters do that shit to me in the most random places? At a fucking hotel lobby. Airport Security. 3rd cousin I met for the first time at a family reunion. When I was in college sitting in class taking notes. (all are real examples) Fuck you assholes. You’re like mormon fucking missionaries trying to get me to join your cult. I want nothing to do with it.
-
If you train in the same lifting group (or whatever the fuck you call it) with a 45 year overweight stay at home mom, you’re doing something wrong.
-
Your technique is fucking terrible
-
I’ve had a crossfitter tell me that I will soon get bored with powerlifting and should do crossfit or else I’ll get burned out and never lift again and turn into a fat ass etc. etc…FUCK YOU
-
You have bastardized movements. Sumo Stance Deadlift high pulls? WTF? Why would you not do deadlifts with a 25 pound rubber plate on each side? Fucking wasted effort. Thrusters? Why would you limit what you front squat because you want to do an overhead press at the end?
[/quote]
[quote]SquatDeepHomie wrote:
Scientific Reasons for hating crossfit
-
No periodization - Today lets do 100 pull ups. Tomorrow lets do 200 lunges with 400 meter sprints every 60 seconds. Wednesday lets do Fran. Thursday lets do Squats for 3x6 and then do 100 wall balls…WTF?
-
No scientific base - We train high intensity…Bullshit. Intensity is what percentage weight you’re using, not how hard you’re working. Most all weight is low intensity because it is low weight for high reps.
-
No logic - Why wouldn’t you want to work on strength AND conditioning at the same time? Bullshit. Strength and muscular endurance have a direct inverse corelation. Meaning, you can’t get strong and conditioned in the same exercise. You are crossing to many intensity zones. You can get better conditioned, but you can’t get stronger. Many peer reviewed articles have discussed this.
-
Skewing science for personal gain - I had a crossfitter show me an article written by some prominent crossfitter explaining how the most power output capability is produced at an intensity of 35% 1RM. Very True. The article continued to explain that crossfit is the best way to increase power because most exercises work in that 35% 1RM mode but they do it for 20-50 reps so they are producing alot more power. That is where the science is skewed. Elite level athletes can maintain power for up to 6 reps. The rest of us see our power output deminish after 3 reps. Meaning after 3 reps you are no longer training power, just doing a shit load of reps for conditioning.
Personal Reasons for Hating Crossfit
-
Crossfit is a fucking cult that thinks they are an elite group of athletes that have the magic fucking bullet to make the world an athletically elite place. Fuck that. Elite athletes are making money by professionally pursuing their discipline, or are getting school payed for because they are still in college. There are some former elite athletes that do crossfit, but they are past their prime. If you train at a crossfit gym with a former gymnast or former volleyball player, that doesn’t make you elite, it makes them has been elites.
-
I’ve never walked up to a stranger and said hey do you powerlift? You dont? Well you should! And then try to convince them why powerlifting is supreme. Why the fuck do all you crossfitters do that shit to me in the most random places? At a fucking hotel lobby. Airport Security. 3rd cousin I met for the first time at a family reunion. When I was in college sitting in class taking notes. (all are real examples) Fuck you assholes. You’re like mormon fucking missionaries trying to get me to join your cult. I want nothing to do with it.
-
If you train in the same lifting group (or whatever the fuck you call it) with a 45 year overweight stay at home mom, you’re doing something wrong.
-
Your technique is fucking terrible
-
I’ve had a crossfitter tell me that I will soon get bored with powerlifting and should do crossfit or else I’ll get burned out and never lift again and turn into a fat ass etc. etc…FUCK YOU
-
You have bastardized movements. Sumo Stance Deadlift high pulls? WTF? Why would you not do deadlifts with a 25 pound rubber plate on each side? Fucking wasted effort. Thrusters? Why would you limit what you front squat because you want to do an overhead press at the end?
[/quote]
QFT.
I’ve definitely witnessed the evangelical crossfitters you’re referring to; however, I’ve never been personally approached. That’s because I call them out before they can say anything, since they are so easy to spot in the gym. Let’s see, you’re supersetting high rep deadlifts with arched lower back with burpees and not resting to give your lower back ample recovery. “oh hey, is THAT crossfit?” Yea. Shake head. Walk away.
I have a friend who’s level 1 certified and hadn’t heard of the posterior chain. I have about 2 years training experience, and nothing close to a certification of any type. I had to teach her how to properly squat and deadlift while activating her glutes, since (as she complained) she still had no ass. She told me of out-of-shape middle-aged folks coming into her gym who would very often be doing cleans within their first week. what. the. fuck. Oh yea, when I showed her reverse lunges, she told me they weren’t for her, because they weren’t “functional.” She asked me, “when I’m I ever going to do reverse lunges in the REAL world.” Uh, I did some climbing in the mountains last weekend and did about 2,000 of them…(well at least the concentric part)
What does “functional” mean anyway? Strength IS the underlying limiting factor behind any of the purported “dimensions of wellness” crossfit promises to improve, yet strength is just another dimension to them. Strength is the foundation of functionality. Whenever I tell my crossfit friends that they just cock their heads and get a perplexed look, as though they’ve never heard that before.
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
I read all of your posts…you make good points I think you ignored the fact that I said I see some issues with Crossfit…I understand there is gonna be a problems and its not the end all be all fitness program…I read some blogs and watched a video of Dave Castro pokin fun at the situation but I guess I don’t care enough to really take a stance…
I also said they didn’t come up with anything new they took some training methods and gave it an Identity and a large group of people embraced it…I happen to think its a good thing that people are trying different training styles…I thought it sucked when Rip and Wolf left but why would I care and why would I let it bother me…They went out and found new coaches to push a product which makes me happy…
Its not like Dave Castro stepped in and started doing the strength cert or the nutrition cert he went out and found good people who wanted to do it…Crossfit has issues I get it…I guess it comes down to Crossfit works for me and alot of people I work and train with…I would be curious to see what you would say is a good program for people that want to be functional and have to have a high level of fitness to do there job?[/quote]
I agree. And you are right I did and have a tendency too do is “miss” someones point that may throw a kink in my current argument:) And what works for you/ makes you happy is my major philosophy towards fitness. I say to people do anything you want, as long as you are working hard and switching it up regularly. CF fits these requirements no?
Your second question is a bit tougher, but I assume you are talking about the physical professions where CF has developed a strong following like, firefighters, police and the military. I like an emphasis on strength first, conditioning second, rather than aerobic fitness with a strength element. I think that the demanding physical aspects of these jobs will be aided as much if not more by a serious strength base than an aerobic one.
An intelligently designed strength program will also keep you moving in a way that will improve your aerobic resp. As a frame of ref. Cressey’s Maximum Strength is a great One. YOu have four strength days structured like movement prep → main lift> accessory lifts suoerset. You then have multiple energy system/cardo options. My thinking on this is that rarely do we need an elite level of conditioning, so why focus on that as our main element when stength is more often a limiting factor in our day to day lives.
Also, while i do not work in extreme sit. I feel like it is possible that in a high pressure situation the adrenaline surge is great enough to actually surpass our fitness levels.
But like I said, I think the most imp. aspect is to find something you enjoy enough that you can consistently get motivated to show up and put in work. I have realized after much trial that I enjoy pushing myself with more maximal weights. I like doing heavy weighted box jumps for power, rather than high reps, thats just what makes me tick. I also have always been small with superior cond. Which has led to many of my goals being more 1rm oriented.
One last thought. I am an incredibly antiestablishment type of person. In an ironic way CF has become the fitness establishment for the antiestablishment crowd. While it’s orig. intentions were to always be one, CF is no longer a grassroots orgin. Regardless of how they want to spin it.
The oginization is fast becoming a fitness industry staple/standard, and as we have discussed there are the seeds of lowered standards and control freak mentalities that dominate the profit first corp. mentality. There are many great CF coaches and gyms, they are unfortunately under the same umbrella as the bad ones.
[/quote]
Funny…we agree on everything…well said sir!
I miss the days of the grassroots movement from crossfit and hate where its leading to
[quote]SquatDeepHomie wrote:
Scientific Reasons for hating crossfit
-
No periodization - Today lets do 100 pull ups. Tomorrow lets do 200 lunges with 400 meter sprints every 60 seconds. Wednesday lets do Fran. Thursday lets do Squats for 3x6 and then do 100 wall balls…WTF?
-
No scientific base - We train high intensity…Bullshit. Intensity is what percentage weight you’re using, not how hard you’re working. Most all weight is low intensity because it is low weight for high reps.
-
No logic - Why wouldn’t you want to work on strength AND conditioning at the same time? Bullshit. Strength and muscular endurance have a direct inverse corelation. Meaning, you can’t get strong and conditioned in the same exercise. You are crossing to many intensity zones. You can get better conditioned, but you can’t get stronger. Many peer reviewed articles have discussed this.
-
Skewing science for personal gain - I had a crossfitter show me an article written by some prominent crossfitter explaining how the most power output capability is produced at an intensity of 35% 1RM. Very True. The article continued to explain that crossfit is the best way to increase power because most exercises work in that 35% 1RM mode but they do it for 20-50 reps so they are producing alot more power. That is where the science is skewed. Elite level athletes can maintain power for up to 6 reps. The rest of us see our power output deminish after 3 reps. Meaning after 3 reps you are no longer training power, just doing a shit load of reps for conditioning.
Personal Reasons for Hating Crossfit
-
Crossfit is a fucking cult that thinks they are an elite group of athletes that have the magic fucking bullet to make the world an athletically elite place. Fuck that. Elite athletes are making money by professionally pursuing their discipline, or are getting school payed for because they are still in college. There are some former elite athletes that do crossfit, but they are past their prime. If you train at a crossfit gym with a former gymnast or former volleyball player, that doesn’t make you elite, it makes them has been elites.
-
I’ve never walked up to a stranger and said hey do you powerlift? You dont? Well you should! And then try to convince them why powerlifting is supreme. Why the fuck do all you crossfitters do that shit to me in the most random places? At a fucking hotel lobby. Airport Security. 3rd cousin I met for the first time at a family reunion. When I was in college sitting in class taking notes. (all are real examples) Fuck you assholes. You’re like mormon fucking missionaries trying to get me to join your cult. I want nothing to do with it.
-
If you train in the same lifting group (or whatever the fuck you call it) with a 45 year overweight stay at home mom, you’re doing something wrong.
-
Your technique is fucking terrible
-
I’ve had a crossfitter tell me that I will soon get bored with powerlifting and should do crossfit or else I’ll get burned out and never lift again and turn into a fat ass etc. etc…FUCK YOU
-
You have bastardized movements. Sumo Stance Deadlift high pulls? WTF? Why would you not do deadlifts with a 25 pound rubber plate on each side? Fucking wasted effort. Thrusters? Why would you limit what you front squat because you want to do an overhead press at the end?
[/quote]
Now this is the shit I’m talking about…I get it some people are fucking idiots and don’t know what to talk about when it comes to training…I’m not an elite anything and I agree with you that forging elite fitness is a bit much when it comes to a slogan…What would you prefer to say as a slogan… Training people to get off their ass…Have you ever done Thrusters or a sumo deadlift high pull?? THe shit works for people that don’t need specialized training for a sport…Most of the people walking around don’t aspire to have a 1,500 pound total like most of the keyboard warriors on this place…I have been weight training for almost 15 years and I got bored with powerlifting and just the everyday routine…I think some crossfitters are just excited and like talking about it and want to get more people involved or they could be douche bags…Believe me I think the same when I talk to some dickhead in the gym about how big his arms got on his program last month or when he talks about how defined his fucking calves are!! Some powerlifters are just as bad when it comes time to go for a run or anything else that doesn’t sound like deadlift or squat.
There’s an arrogance to many Crossfitters too.
I mean I used to go to their boards and someone would post a fitness video or article that could be of interest but then inevitably someone would post “Yeah, but I wonder what his Fran time would be?” about the athlete or whoever in the video or article.
I’m pretty sure EVERYONE’S first Fran time would be abysmal…then they’d slowly get better at it.
I think the last time I posted there was when someone wondered what Jerry Rice’s Fran time would be. He’s fucking JERRY RICE!!!
Also, I’m sorry but I think I said all this on page one of this thread, I’m not sure.
[quote]Nards wrote:
I would frequent their board and kind of got sick of when someone would post some fitness related video and one of the Kool Aid drinkers would then ponder as to what the guy in the video’s Fran time would be.
I think when some of them said it about NFL great Jerry Rice that I stopped going.
That and I hated their T-shirts that said shit about ow they’d smoke you like cheap crack. Not a very good attempt at a pitiful insult or in-your-face tough thing.
Also, every time someone talked about one of the women that did Crossfit there’d inevitably be the comment about how “…she could kick my ass!”
I find coming to that conclusion all the time when someone’s big is kind of weird. Like I’m complimenting a girl by saying she could beat me up. I dunno…just sounds stupid.
Also there was always that person in a thread where someone came even close to criticizing Crossfit that would mention that the WOD is provided FREE OF CHARGE!!!
Big fucking deal.[/quote]
Oh yeah, there I was on page 3. Good points Nards!
Just think of the distance the bar would have to travel for just one Jerry Rice Thruster, His Fran time would be HORRIBLE, which obviously means he is a huge pussy:)
As for that absolute ridiculous rant above, its hard to know where to start.
People I have seen who implement CF include 160 lb powerlifters with an over 600 lb deadlift, ex football players, strongmen, Rugby players. All have improved strength and fitnes levels simultaneously
No periodization. So what, plenty of shit isnt periodized. Alot of athletic trainers dont rely on periodization anymore. It also doesnt mean that the sequence of workouts is random shit pulled out of someones ass. It is sometimes, but doesnt have to be.
This overly agressive and irrational rant is why most people assume that anybody with a decent build is using, because half of them walk around acting like they are fucking silverback gorillas or something.
I assume he is big because honestly, why else would complete strangers approach him to solict or offer fitness advice.
I know a lot of people who are into crossfit and it fits their goals.
I’ve only been approached one time about CF and it was at my gym. I was doing FRAN as my warm up and then after my actual workout as a finisher. A guy asked me right after I was done if I had been doing FRAN. I told him that I was doing it as a warm up and then was going to do it again at the end of my strength workout. He just looked at me with a blank look on his face lol. It was pretty funny.
Do a lot of crossfitters “drink the koolaid”? Yes
Do a lot of the people bashing CF come across as just as big of douches as the people they’re ranting about? Oh hell yes
I like to implement CF style workouts for conditioning some times (in addition to my regular workouts)
If you dont like it or its not really your thing then dont do it. Just like powerlifting or bodybuilding isnt their thing. Just do what you do
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
Just think of the distance the bar would have to travel for just one Jerry Rice Thruster, His Fran time would be HORRIBLE, which obviously means he is a huge pussy:)
As for that absolute ridiculous rant above, its hard to know where to start.
People I have seen who implement CF include 160 lb powerlifters with an over 600 lb deadlift, ex football players, strongmen, Rugby players. All have improved strength and fitnes levels simultaneously
No periodization. So what, plenty of shit isnt periodized. Alot of athletic trainers dont rely on periodization anymore. It also doesnt mean that the sequence of workouts is random shit pulled out of someones ass. It is sometimes, but doesnt have to be.
This overly agressive and irrational rant is why most people assume that anybody with a decent build is using, because half of them walk around acting like they are fucking silverback gorillas or something.
I assume he is big because honestly, why else would complete strangers approach him to solict or offer fitness advice.
[/quote]
Not gonna waste my effort on crossfit. Have fun swinging around the bar like a chimpanzee with down syndrome
Crossfit is to cross country as strong man is to football .
They are both fall sports but which one is better?
Generally if anyone tries to convert me to crossfit, I do this to them.
It’s for fucking pussies. End of story.
what the hell does planet fitness have anything to do with this…crossfit is on the other side of the spectrum from a gym like planet fitness…I would think we could atleast agree on this
[quote]crossfit_infidel wrote:
what the hell does planet fitness have anything to do with this…crossfit is on the other side of the spectrum from a gym like planet fitness…I would think we could atleast agree on this[/quote]
Nah… Crossfit and Planet Fitness are kinda like Stalin and Hitler. Different ends of the spectrum maybe, and they hate each other, but I hate both of them.
America rules.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]crossfit_infidel wrote:
what the hell does planet fitness have anything to do with this…crossfit is on the other side of the spectrum from a gym like planet fitness…I would think we could atleast agree on this[/quote]
Nah… Crossfit and Planet Fitness are kinda like Stalin and Hitler. Different ends of the spectrum maybe, and they hate each other, but I hate both of them.
America rules.[/quote]
funny stuff…atleast I can laugh at your shit even though we don’t agree