The 225 was used when the average NFL player was 225lbs. This was a while back before these athletes got so much bigger. Like some of the other tests, they maybe outdated, but still used. These are just evaluators and used to measure an athlete’s strength AND muscular endurance.
As far as what you all think, the answer is yes to the fact that a good % of players would be unable to lift 315 for reps or even one. Having a BIG three means absolutely nothing. NFL players are born with something different, whether you like it or not, they are special ball players. Yes a 5 works their tales off, but just the same fact there is a % that doesnt.
It takes a lot to be in the League and it takes a lot to stay in the League. Throwing up crazy weights and pulling max weights are not always necessary to becoming a player.
As far as shoulder pressing, with the amount of volume on the shoulders through practicing, well let’s say, the shoulder press is certainly NOT a must in development.
Conor, that would take a shitload of time and many injuries that nobody wants.
when it comes down to it, the guy with more reps is the guy with the higher max. this is not a platz/hatfield sitiation. this is guys who play the same sport the same way.
im training myself for the combines and when thinking of the different ways i can get 30 reps it always means i’ll have a hyooge max.
"this is the most idiotic reply i have ever heard. it’s just a blatant LIE. You KNOW this for a FACT?!?! bullsh-t, we’re american, we’re ameri-centric and proud of it. You’re telling me that when they started having the combine x number of years ago, some jackass decided that one of the most minor aspects of the entire draft process had to conform to the metric system? And then you pick an explanation that doesnt even hold up ie 100kg =/= 225? ridiculous. "
I think a 1RM of cleans, deads and squats would be a more accurate assessment of a FB player’s strength carryover onto the field.
Also, lateral quickness is important, but even moreso is a player’s reflexes and ability to read and react to a situatuin. I believe this is the major difference between guys with “Football speed” and guys with “track speed”. It’s more important for a player to be dynamic than it is for them to have great linear speed and acceleration in any given direction.
The 225lb test andthe combine itself are really just one piece of the draft-choice puzzle and it helps objectively verify that you’re reasonably strong and fast. These guys also participate in Pro-timing days at their universities where they may do maxes on the big three as well as other drills not covered by the combine.
At the end of the day though they’re usually looking for someone who can play the game and just want to make sure they have the physical tools to do so at the next level.
I think that since the players all know they’ll be doing 225 for reps, it gives some gauge as to whether the player has worked hard or not in the weight room. And it does have some corrrelations, mostly that the guys wo can do too many reps often have problems (but arm length is a big factor).
Anyway, I read that Arnold benched
225 x 57, and 315 x 34 and he was clearly the dominant football player of our generation.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I read that Arnold benched
225 x 57, and 315 x 34 [/quote]
I know it doesn’t matter relative to the point you were making, but I would call bullshit on this until I saw it. We have a guy at our gym who has trained a lot like a bodybuilder and now has a 515 raw bench. He did 315x16 the other night. I know muscle fiber type and all that other bullshit, but 315x34 would be pretty fucking impressive. I’m not going to say he could not have done it, just that I’d have to see proof.
[quote]strongFB wrote:
As far as shoulder pressing, with the amount of volume on the shoulders through practicing, well let’s say, the shoulder press is certainly NOT a must in development.[/quote]
It depends who you ask. While there are probably as many people and strength coaches who advocate training shoulders, as don’t, I’d rather have a guy with a big Military Press, Push Press, or Jerk on my team, than a guy with a big bench. (Yes…I’d prefer to have a big jerk on my team, hee hee.)
I’m not discussing the details of balancing training volume and recovery (that’s the S&C coach’s job), but simply talking in terms of a “measuring stick” type of movement. A Military (or even a Push Press) is more of a ‘body-as-one-unit’ exercise than a Flat Bench Press, which gives a better indication of overall body strength, and likely athletic carryover.
[quote]dcb wrote:
This is a little off topic but when Fred Smoot was drafted by the Redskins, the report was that he couldn’t even do 1 rep at 225 pounds at the combine. It doesn’t seem to make much difference since he’s still a damn good cornerback. [/quote]
If you ever saw fred smoot that wouldn’t suprise anybody. I saw him at Champs in DC, and the man looked like he was the size of my thigh.
[quote]Minotaur wrote:
It depends who you ask. While there are probably as many people and strength coaches who advocate training shoulders, as don’t, I’d rather have a guy with a big Military Press, Push Press, or Jerk on my team, than a guy with a big bench. (Yes…I’d prefer to have a big jerk on my team, hee hee.)
I’m not discussing the details of balancing training volume and recovery (that’s the S&C coach’s job), but simply talking in terms of a “measuring stick” type of movement. A Military (or even a Push Press) is more of a ‘body-as-one-unit’ exercise than a Flat Bench Press, which gives a better indication of overall body strength, and likely athletic carryover.[/quote]
Also remember that the bench press is just one of several physical tests administered to potential NFL players. You have to look at it as part of a set of tests rather than just one movement to determine physical ability. Looking at it that way, it could be reasoned that an NFL player does a lot more horizontal pushing than overhead pushing, but an argument could be made either way.
Also remember that it is easier to quantify a bench press, as the degree of backward lean can dramatically affect weight lifted overhead.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
when it comes down to it, the guy with more reps is the guy with the higher max. this is not a platz/hatfield sitiation. this is guys who play the same sport the same way.
im training myself for the combines and when thinking of the different ways i can get 30 reps it always means i’ll have a hyooge max.[/quote]
The first paragraph is not true. For example there are relatively explosive lineman and there are slow lineman, usually from HIT schools. They may play the same sport, but there training and genetics can be quite different.
Where do you play? Please make sense of that 2nd paragraph.
[quote]RickJames wrote:
mertdawg wrote:
I read that Arnold benched
225 x 57, and 315 x 34
I know it doesn’t matter relative to the point you were making, but I would call bullshit on this until I saw it. We have a guy at our gym who has trained a lot like a bodybuilder and now has a 515 raw bench. He did 315x16 the other night. I know muscle fiber type and all that other bullshit, but 315x34 would be pretty fucking impressive. I’m not going to say he could not have done it, just that I’d have to see proof.
[/quote]
I agree I don’t necessarily believe this. The same article also said he did 405 x 19 and 455 x 13 which is basically dead even with Kazmeier for similar weights, but he wrote himself that 405 x 8 required intense concentration. And he only hinted that he had maxed 500 at one point.
And I always wondered, what the heck weight did he use to warm up for a workout? He said that your first set should be a warmup of about 15 reps TO FAILURE! What did he do to warm up then? 425 x 15? I don’t think so.
But I also read an interview from Tom Platz where he said for many years after his legs had developed, he usually did deep olympic stance squats at 315 for 50-75 reps without re-racking, and only once a month.
But when 225 is so little to some players it doesn’t mean much. I mean the guy with higher reps is strongest? They want to test the strength of NFL candidates yes? To know who is the strongest, well surely a 225 rep bench test is an extremely poor way to do this? Even a keg tossing contest would be preferable at least then they would have some idea of explosiveness.
And TJ Ford couldn’t get a single at 185 at the NBA combine.
[quote]dcb wrote:
This is a little off topic but when Fred Smoot was drafted by the Redskins, the report was that he couldn’t even do 1 rep at 225 pounds at the combine. It doesn’t seem to make much difference since he’s still a damn good cornerback. [/quote]
225 is an arbitrary figure choosen as a measure of strength endurance. so what if a guy can bench 500 pounds in the four quarter but that falls to 300 pounds in the 4th due to fatigue. while if a guy can bench 400 in the first but still bench about 380 in the 4th will be the better player when it comes to crunch time in the 4th quarter.
also another theory where this comes from is percentage of max. cause normally when on the football field does a person push with 100 percent of his maximal force, if he did they would be dog tired after 5 plays and couldnt physically contiune. most of the time we push with on average of about 60-70% of our actualy strength on each and every play and when you figure it out 225 is about 60% of 350 or so. so its another guage of how your endurance is up to the test of pushing people around.
the 40 yard test is used because it is believed to be the “point of no return” how many people have you seen get caught after being chased for 40 yards. usually if you run more than 40 yards your not supposed to get caught if you have a good time, so its a measure of break away speed and can you stay ahead of the pack or catch up to it.
Most guys don’t get caught after 40 yards, but did you see Tyrone Poole chase down Priest Holmes a few years ago? It was the play Holmes hurt his hip on. Poole ran right past another db and pulled Holmes down from behind when they were both in a dead run. Very cool. Then last year I remember Holmes coming out of nowhere and staying with the play and chasing some dude down when it looked like he was gone after a turnover. How many times did Tayshon Prince bench 185?
You know, thinking about it I’d almost not want a football player who could do too many reps in the bench press. Too much slow twitch muscle fiber.
I’d say, have them do a triple speed bench at 225 with a force plate under the bench. Same for a near parallel box squat. Better yet, have them do a triple every minute on the minute and see how they fatigue.
i never said it doesnt happen but majority of the time it doesnt, you brought up one incident where some one got walked form over 40 yards, compared to the numerous of guys who have broke away from defenses to score touchdowns.
i can only think of a few incidents where people have be caught from long distances maybe only like 10 and 7 are technicalities. I know this weird stat that Barry Sanders early in his career used to get caught he has the 7 longest runs without scoring 80, 77, 74, 69, 65, 61, and 58 yards. Barry was never known for his blazing speed but rather his ridiculous moves. and the other three involved Darrel Green who was ungodly fast and was possibly the fastest man to ever play in the nfl.