Who's Kicking Butt With New Para-Wkout Protocol?

Nutrition
61

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
skohcl wrote:
He also said the purpose of the FINiBARs was providing low-glycemic Palatinose and Rice Olgidextran

Right. This is where I started tweaking out over those two ingredients. The specific ratio would be nice to know for optimum cell pull of nutrients. I’m half assed thinking of trying to experiment but not sure if it’s an optimum route or not. It’s only in that -45 or -60 window, so that has me contemplating nailing the latter ingredients on the cheap first.

[/quote]
Apparently it’s even better to use 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel 45 mins before your workout and then you don’t have to worry about FINiBARs

62

[quote]juverulez wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
skohcl wrote:
He also said the purpose of the FINiBARs was providing low-glycemic Palatinose and Rice Olgidextran

Right. This is where I started tweaking out over those two ingredients. The specific ratio would be nice to know for optimum cell pull of nutrients. I’m half assed thinking of trying to experiment but not sure if it’s an optimum route or not. It’s only in that -45 or -60 window, so that has me contemplating nailing the latter ingredients on the cheap first.

Apparently it’s even better to use 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel 45 mins before your workout and then you don’t have to worry about FINiBARs
[/quote]

Where did you hear this? Is this in addition to the 2 scoops 30 min before?

63

[quote]skohcl wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
skohcl wrote:
I think the palatinose is the main one, since it is the first ingredient in the FINiBAR, and the rice olg is kinda far back, so like some oat starch with palatiniose or something… I’m going to experiment when I get my palatinose :slight_smile:

But yeah, I need to watch my carbs, I’m trying not to eat too much, and even half of the protocol jacks me up to like 2800-3000 cals on workout days, and I’m not sure I’m ready to switch over to a ‘bulk’ phase just yet. I kinda’ wanna drop a few more lbs of fat, so we’ll see where I’m at in a few weeks I guess.

Nice. You’re not kidding there either, those calories really zing up into the stratosphere quickly on this deal! I"m going to test the waters with as BBB talked, just eating pro/veg every meal aside from the para-wkout window.

It’s like doing the Anabolic Diet almost, with no carb up save the para window. :slight_smile:

I was trying to tweak that when I was on it a couple years back, only I was still doing the carb up on weekends, and I didn’t go nearly as high cho in the para as this new protocol does.

I’m stoked to try this though. Began eating that way yesterday after reading BBB’s take on it.

Yeah, that’s pretty much my diet… there here’s a quote from the fat-loss forum where CT recommended an abbridged version of the protocol to gain a lil while losing fat, so that’s what I’ve been trying to follow:

â?¨â?¨CT - or anyone else - which thread was this talked about in? I’ve looked and looked and can’t find it. â?¨â?¨I’m sitting at about 10-11% BF after “Get Jacked Fast.” I’d like to lose a few more pounds of fat, but I don’t think I can hack the mental strain of low-carbing for more than a few weeks.

I actually don’t consume any carbs outside of fruit, but I get terrible cravings for them and was going nuts in the final weeks of GJF. â?¨â?¨Coach, do you think that restricting my carbs to 2 fruit portions a day and pre-workout (i.e. pulsing) would allow me to get to 8% BF while retaining/gaining lean mass? I can get some peptopro, pending Anaconda’s release, Finibars, basically anything that’s commercially available. â?¨â?¨G

��You can reach your goal by consuming as much as 150g of carbs per day provided that they are well timed, of the right type and that the caloric intake for the rest of the day is correct. ��

Here are my recommendations: ��

  • Start at 1.25g of protein per pound NOT including para-workout nutrition â?¨
  • Consume between 60 and 80g of fat per day â?¨
  • Set carbs at around 150g on workout days as follow: â?¨â?¨

40 min pre-workout 1 FINiBAR (39g) â?¨
30 min pre-workout SURGE WORKOUT FUEL 1 SCOOP (21g)
â?¨15 min pre-workout SURGE RECOVERY 1 SCOOP (25g) â?¨
During the workout Surge Recov 1 SCOOP (25g) + 20-30g CH ��

Total = 110g para-workout ��

Then have 2 portions of fruit with a whey shake 60 minutes after the workout. ��

The rest of the day is low-carbs.

So that is kinda’ what I’m trying to do… This amounts to 1600-1800 on non-workout days and approx. 2800 or so on workout days. And I’ve been on an upper-lower split working out 4 days a week. And I usually consume 30-50g of carbs from peanut butter, flax, and other random “trace” sources, so I generally have 2000~ish on my off days.

I am getting rather sick of dieting though, been dieting keto style for like 3-4 months, so I might have to go crazy for a week or something, cause these cheat meals once or twice a week ain’t cutting it! ;)[/quote]

Thanks, this will definitely help me finish sorting out my take on it.

Good luck, I know what you mean about the dieting driving one nuts after a spell!
Good things don’t come easy…

64

[quote]mcook123 wrote:
juverulez wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
skohcl wrote:
He also said the purpose of the FINiBARs was providing low-glycemic Palatinose and Rice Olgidextran

Right. This is where I started tweaking out over those two ingredients. The specific ratio would be nice to know for optimum cell pull of nutrients. I’m half assed thinking of trying to experiment but not sure if it’s an optimum route or not. It’s only in that -45 or -60 window, so that has me contemplating nailing the latter ingredients on the cheap first.

Apparently it’s even better to use 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel 45 mins before your workout and then you don’t have to worry about FINiBARs

Where did you hear this? Is this in addition to the 2 scoops 30 min before?[/quote]

X2!

65

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
I’m another one making my own workout protocols.

Here’s what I’m doing so far:

45 minutes before workout:
1.5 scoops whey [30g protein]
60g Activated Barley [42g carbs(12gfibre) / 6g protein]
50g oats [35g carbs(4g fibre) / 4g protein]
1 apples

30 minutes before workout:
22g Activated Barley [16g carbs(4gfibre)]
16g palatinose [16g carbs(16g sugar)]
10g dextrose [10g carbs(10g sugar)]
250mg Vitamin C
16g Electrolyte Powder
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine

15 minutes before workout:
30g Hydrolysed Whey (25g protein)
35g Vitargo (30g carbs)
10g Maltrodextrin (9g carbs)
10g Dextrose (10g carbs)
8g Electrolyte powder
4g L-Leucine

During the workout:
25g casein hydrolysate
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine
16g Electrolyte powder
10g D-Ribose powder
5g Glucuronolactone (main ingredient in energy drinks, besides caffiene!)

30 min after workout is 20g casein hydrolysate

Flavorings I use are Berry Blast, Irish Cream and Cranberry (citric acid, flavoring, sucralose)

The feeling I get is pretty good, I get a good pump during my workouts. I’m still experimenting with ingredients for my during workout concoction, just trial and error at the moment.

I want to order the actual supplements required for the protocol and see how the results compare.
[/quote]

I find this very interesting my friend…:slight_smile:

Is part of the reason you use the activated Barley, the fiber content which would further slow the absorption of the cho content?

Very nice.

66

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
mcook123 wrote:
juverulez wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
skohcl wrote:
He also said the purpose of the FINiBARs was providing low-glycemic Palatinose and Rice Olgidextran

Right. This is where I started tweaking out over those two ingredients. The specific ratio would be nice to know for optimum cell pull of nutrients. I’m half assed thinking of trying to experiment but not sure if it’s an optimum route or not. It’s only in that -45 or -60 window, so that has me contemplating nailing the latter ingredients on the cheap first.

Apparently it’s even better to use 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel 45 mins before your workout and then you don’t have to worry about FINiBARs

Where did you hear this? Is this in addition to the 2 scoops 30 min before?

X2![/quote]

X3

67

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Good luck, I know what you mean about the dieting driving one nuts after a spell!
Good things don’t come easy…[/quote]

For real!

68

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
I’m another one making my own workout protocols.

Here’s what I’m doing so far:

45 minutes before workout:
1.5 scoops whey [30g protein]
60g Activated Barley [42g carbs(12gfibre) / 6g protein]
50g oats [35g carbs(4g fibre) / 4g protein]
1 apples

30 minutes before workout:
22g Activated Barley [16g carbs(4gfibre)]
16g palatinose [16g carbs(16g sugar)]
10g dextrose [10g carbs(10g sugar)]
250mg Vitamin C
16g Electrolyte Powder
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine

15 minutes before workout:
30g Hydrolysed Whey (25g protein)
35g Vitargo (30g carbs)
10g Maltrodextrin (9g carbs)
10g Dextrose (10g carbs)
8g Electrolyte powder
4g L-Leucine

During the workout:
25g casein hydrolysate
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine
16g Electrolyte powder
10g D-Ribose powder
5g Glucuronolactone (main ingredient in energy drinks, besides caffiene!)

30 min after workout is 20g casein hydrolysate

Flavorings I use are Berry Blast, Irish Cream and Cranberry (citric acid, flavoring, sucralose)

The feeling I get is pretty good, I get a good pump during my workouts. I’m still experimenting with ingredients for my during workout concoction, just trial and error at the moment.

I want to order the actual supplements required for the protocol and see how the results compare.

I find this very interesting my friend…:slight_smile:

Is part of the reason you use the activated Barley, the fiber content which would further slow the absorption of the cho content?

Very nice.
[/quote]

Partly, it also seems to be a higher quality carbohydrate than Rice Oligodextrin. I can’t seem to find a source for Rice Oligodextrin in the UK so I just stick with the barley (even though it’s more expensive)

69

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
I’m another one making my own workout protocols.

Here’s what I’m doing so far:

45 minutes before workout:
1.5 scoops whey [30g protein]
60g Activated Barley [42g carbs(12gfibre) / 6g protein]
50g oats [35g carbs(4g fibre) / 4g protein]
1 apples

30 minutes before workout:
22g Activated Barley [16g carbs(4gfibre)]
16g palatinose [16g carbs(16g sugar)]
10g dextrose [10g carbs(10g sugar)]
250mg Vitamin C
16g Electrolyte Powder
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine

15 minutes before workout:
30g Hydrolysed Whey (25g protein)
35g Vitargo (30g carbs)
10g Maltrodextrin (9g carbs)
10g Dextrose (10g carbs)
8g Electrolyte powder
4g L-Leucine

During the workout:
25g casein hydrolysate
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine
16g Electrolyte powder
10g D-Ribose powder
5g Glucuronolactone (main ingredient in energy drinks, besides caffiene!)

30 min after workout is 20g casein hydrolysate

Flavorings I use are Berry Blast, Irish Cream and Cranberry (citric acid, flavoring, sucralose)

The feeling I get is pretty good, I get a good pump during my workouts. I’m still experimenting with ingredients for my during workout concoction, just trial and error at the moment.

I want to order the actual supplements required for the protocol and see how the results compare.

I find this very interesting my friend…:slight_smile:

Is part of the reason you use the activated Barley, the fiber content which would further slow the absorption of the cho content?

Very nice.

Partly, it also seems to be a higher quality carbohydrate than Rice Oligodextrin. I can’t seem to find a source for Rice Oligodextrin in the UK so I just stick with the barley (even though it’s more expensive)[/quote]

How much of the rice oligo would you use if you had it, in place of your barley? Or how would you come up with said amount?

70

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
I’m another one making my own workout protocols.

Here’s what I’m doing so far:

45 minutes before workout:
1.5 scoops whey [30g protein]
60g Activated Barley [42g carbs(12gfibre) / 6g protein]
50g oats [35g carbs(4g fibre) / 4g protein]
1 apples

30 minutes before workout:
22g Activated Barley [16g carbs(4gfibre)]
16g palatinose [16g carbs(16g sugar)]
10g dextrose [10g carbs(10g sugar)]
250mg Vitamin C
16g Electrolyte Powder
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine

15 minutes before workout:
30g Hydrolysed Whey (25g protein)
35g Vitargo (30g carbs)
10g Maltrodextrin (9g carbs)
10g Dextrose (10g carbs)
8g Electrolyte powder
4g L-Leucine

During the workout:
25g casein hydrolysate
6g L-Leucine
6g Citrulline malate
3g Beta alanine
16g Electrolyte powder
10g D-Ribose powder
5g Glucuronolactone (main ingredient in energy drinks, besides caffiene!)

30 min after workout is 20g casein hydrolysate

Flavorings I use are Berry Blast, Irish Cream and Cranberry (citric acid, flavoring, sucralose)

The feeling I get is pretty good, I get a good pump during my workouts. I’m still experimenting with ingredients for my during workout concoction, just trial and error at the moment.

I want to order the actual supplements required for the protocol and see how the results compare.

I find this very interesting my friend…:slight_smile:

Is part of the reason you use the activated Barley, the fiber content which would further slow the absorption of the cho content?

Very nice.

Partly, it also seems to be a higher quality carbohydrate than Rice Oligodextrin. I can’t seem to find a source for Rice Oligodextrin in the UK so I just stick with the barley (even though it’s more expensive)

How much of the rice oligo would you use if you had it, in place of your barley? Or how would you come up with said amount?

[/quote]

To come up with the amount I look at the product from Biotest im trying to emulate, I look how much carbs/sugars there are and what carbs are in the product, and how much sugar there is per carb.

That gives me a rough idea how much of each I need. The carbs like dextrose and oats are just there to make up the bulk and decrease overall cost.

But for the most part, i’d use the same amount of rice oligodextrin as I would activated barley.

71

So I’ve been a sort of half arsed version of this for just over 2 weeks now. I say half arsed because I just saw Goodfellows version above and it makes mine look very simplistic in comparison.

This is mine;

-60 = 1 Scoop Micellar Casein + 50g Powdered Oats
-16 = 1 Spike
-15 = 1 Scoop Whey Isolate + 40g Vitargo + 10g Palatinose + 5g Leucine
D/W = Water
PWO = 2 Scoops Whey Isolate + 5g Creatine + 5g Glycine + 2g Electrolyte Powder

It seems to be going well thus far. I’ve stayed at the same BW for the last 2 weeks, and my BF% has dropped by 0.6% which I had measured today. I’m pretty sure I’ll need to add something during the workout as well.

I also had a blowout BBQ on Saturday with a bit too much to eat and a few to many beers, so the results probably would have been better.

There’s no doubt in my mind that these guys are onto something good!

*Although I only just saw it, MP were pretty fast to jump onto the Pepto Pro bandwagon. Pretty cool though, because we now have a reliable good quality CH source in the UK.

LR

72

[quote]skohcl wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
mcook123 wrote:
juverulez wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
skohcl wrote:
He also said the purpose of the FINiBARs was providing low-glycemic Palatinose and Rice Olgidextran

Right. This is where I started tweaking out over those two ingredients. The specific ratio would be nice to know for optimum cell pull of nutrients. I’m half assed thinking of trying to experiment but not sure if it’s an optimum route or not. It’s only in that -45 or -60 window, so that has me contemplating nailing the latter ingredients on the cheap first.

Apparently it’s even better to use 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel 45 mins before your workout and then you don’t have to worry about FINiBARs

Where did you hear this? Is this in addition to the 2 scoops 30 min before?

X2!

X3[/quote]

I don’t really have time ATM to find the actual quote but I remember that CT said that (in response to all those who cannot get FINiBARs in Europe) FINiBARs can be replaced with 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel since it’s got the right ratio of carbs-rice olig. and palatinose (and some extra leucine or beta alanine cannot do too much of harm i guess). Now, that should be taken in place of FINiBARs so the protocol would look like this:

-90 Alpha-GPC
-45/40 1 scoop of Surge Workout Fuel
-30 2 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops of Surge Recovery
During 20 gms of Pepto Pro + 5 gms of Leucine/ Anaconda

  • 60 20 gms of of Pepto Pro + 5gms creatine
  • 90 massive meal with high protein and fat content [e.g. red meat ]

That’s what I’ve been on for the past 2 weeks now I have to admit that I am really pleased with results.

BTW: I would toy around with CT’s protocol too much since you can easily ‘bastardise’ it and the effects may not be optimal. Even though I am on a relatively tight budget I decided to fork out some money on Biotest supplements rather than buy ingredients on my own and try to make it work [cannot be done since we don’t know the ratio of carbs used in FINiBARs or Surge Workout Fuel)

73

[quote]juverulez wrote:
skohcl wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
mcook123 wrote:
juverulez wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
skohcl wrote:
He also said the purpose of the FINiBARs was providing low-glycemic Palatinose and Rice Olgidextran

Right. This is where I started tweaking out over those two ingredients. The specific ratio would be nice to know for optimum cell pull of nutrients. I’m half assed thinking of trying to experiment but not sure if it’s an optimum route or not. It’s only in that -45 or -60 window, so that has me contemplating nailing the latter ingredients on the cheap first.

Apparently it’s even better to use 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel 45 mins before your workout and then you don’t have to worry about FINiBARs

Where did you hear this? Is this in addition to the 2 scoops 30 min before?

X2!

X3

I don’t really have time ATM to find the actual quote but I remember that CT said that (in response to all those who cannot get FINiBARs in Europe) FINiBARs can be replaced with 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel since it’s got the right ratio of carbs-rice olig. and palatinose (and some extra leucine or beta alanine cannot do too much of harm i guess). Now, that should be taken in place of FINiBARs so the protocol would look like this:

-90 Alpha-GPC
-45/40 1 scoop of Surge Workout Fuel
-30 2 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops of Surge Recovery
During 20 gms of Pepto Pro + 5 gms of Leucine/ Anaconda

  • 60 20 gms of of Pepto Pro + 5gms creatine
  • 90 massive meal with high protein and fat content [e.g. red meat ]

That’s what I’ve been on for the past 2 weeks now I have to admit that I am really pleased with results.

BTW: I would toy around with CT’s protocol too much since you can easily ‘bastardise’ it and the effects may not be optimal. Even though I am on a relatively tight budget I decided to fork out some money on Biotest supplements rather than buy ingredients on my own and try to make it work [cannot be done since we don’t know the ratio of carbs used in FINiBARs or Surge Workout Fuel)

[/quote]

I back this post fully.
Great job, yours looks simple, effective and fairly economic fwiw.

BUt for some of us it’s still not quite cost effective enough ime, lol…I hear you on us not knowing exactly the ratio between the palatinose and rice oligo, but if we can figure it out between a small bunch of us perhaps purchasing the rice oligo and palatinose seperate, I’m sure we could all dial this fucker in quickly.

What do you guys think of something group style like this?

Cheers anyway for the post bud.

74

I think it comes down to the carbs ala rice oligo/palatinose, being the best place to make oneself some decent savings…

The pepto/hydro stuff isn’t available anywhere for an economic price, so you’re basicly left with the cho strategy and ability for breaking down into cheaper components for an overall savings that you can shake a tangibility stick at.

Yes?

75

So who is kicking butt with the original protocol?

TB

76

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
So who is kicking butt with the original protocol?

TB[/quote]

Will report in 4 weeks.

Gonna use exact protocol except for the Anaconda…

So

-90 Alpha-Gpc
-45 2 FINiBARs
-30 2scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2scoops Surge Recovery
During : -1st half : 1scoop Surge Recovery -2nd half : 20g peptopro + L-Leucine
+60 20g PP

77

[quote]zraw wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
So who is kicking butt with the original protocol?

TB

Will report in 4 weeks.

Gonna use exact protocol except for the Anaconda…

So

-90 Alpha-Gpc
-45 2 FINiBARs
-30 2scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2scoops Surge Recovery
During : -1st half : 1scoop Surge Recovery -2nd half : 20g peptopro + L-Leucine
+60 20g PP [/quote]

Quick question, you have a tube your gonna empty the 20g PP + Leucine into mid-workout or something?

78

[quote]skohcl wrote:
And about bastardizing the protocol… we don’t even have anaconda, so we are already bastardizing it… can’t really speak to the effectiveness of the “real” protocol yet then, can we? I mean we’re supposed to “crash and burn” if we don’t have Anaconda in our protocol according to nate.

It’s already been stated that without the bars it’s still 80-90% effective, right?[/quote]

This is the main point made in this thread by most lifters: we are all keen to follow the protocol to he letter but whether for availability or budget reasons we make the best of what is available.
Getting pent up about using high-grade WH and leucine instead of Anaconda, or having to opt for blending single quality supplement ingredients to make up a version of Workout Fuel (like me, because I can’t really afford the real stuff) is as pointless as fretting because your workout programme stipulates incline Smith presses but you only have access to a barbell and an incline bench! Will my upper chest results only be 80-90% effective because I didn’t use the Smith? We are talking narrow margins here.

79

[quote]skohcl wrote:
zraw wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
So who is kicking butt with the original protocol?

TB

Will report in 4 weeks.

Gonna use exact protocol except for the Anaconda…

So

-90 Alpha-Gpc
-45 2 FINiBARs
-30 2scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2scoops Surge Recovery
During : -1st half : 1scoop Surge Recovery -2nd half : 20g peptopro + L-Leucine
+60 20g PP

Quick question, you have a tube your gonna empty the 20g PP + Leucine into mid-workout or something?[/quote]

Welll eh… a shaker bottle… I have more than 1 shaker bottle…

80

[quote]zraw wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
So who is kicking butt with the original protocol?

TB

Will report in 4 weeks.

Gonna use exact protocol except for the Anaconda…

So

-90 Alpha-Gpc
-45 2 FINiBARs
-30 2scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2scoops Surge Recovery
During : -1st half : 1scoop Surge Recovery -2nd half : 20g peptopro + L-Leucine
+60 20g PP [/quote]

Outstanding then.
What did you have to drop on the supps to get enough for a month?

Thanks.