Who would win: prime Ali vs prime Tyson

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

That being said, there’s one factor that can’t be ignored - Ali’s mouth[/quote]

exactly why i would love to see Tyson knock him the fuck out and shut his big mouth. [/quote]

Why? Tyson was a bigger scumbag than Ali could ever be. If you’re rooting for the better character, Ali never raped women, hit women, got into streetfights, did boatloads of drugs, etc.

I love Iron Mike but the guy was a big-time dirtbag.[/quote]

You can’t say that. Ali never got CAUGHT doing any of that, but that doesn’t mean he DIDN’T. He did get caught with a few mistresses though.
[/quote]

You and I know both know that if the government and the police could have caught Muhammad Ali do ANY such thing, they would have, and they’d have put him in jail for as long as they could for it.

Ali may have been a lot of things, but I think I can safely say that he was not a drug user, he didn’t beat women, and he didn’t rape women. And he never got involved in street altercations. If he had, these things would have been reported on either by the slew of reporters that followed his every move back then, or uncovered by the plethora of writers who have written about him in the time since.

took ali 12-15 rounds to beat nobodys. rocky and joe lewis beat the nobodys in 1-2-3 rounds…so thats 2 bwtter than ali. and didnt norton beat him once pretty good, then lose to him when the whole world knew norton won the second time? frazier lost vision in an eye in 1967. thought he did well for having 1 eye…ali, about 5th in my book all time

Tyson.

Ali was a showboat who, as evidenced in this thread, has a lot of fans. Tyson is seen as some gangster type trash street fighter.

Which is hilarious considering he had one of the best defences and meanest fighting technique known in the ring. Tyson would have taken no shit from Ali and gone right into him but the thing with Tyson? He would have landed those blows on Ali.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This kind of sucks because it’s going to devolve into a thread where a lot of people who don’t know shit about boxing are talking about boxing, and as someone who boxes that’s pretty difficult to listen to.

But that being said, it’s a pretty classic matchup that all of us - boxing fans, fighters, and non-fans alike - would have loved to see, because it’s the ultimate boxer against the ultimate puncher. The two of them in their primes, going at each other, would be awesome.

After all, Ali had the speed, technique, movement, footwork, and the timing to beat him, but Tyson had the power, speed and style to get inside and definitely had a puncher’s chance.

That being said, there’s one factor that can’t be ignored - Ali’s mouth, and his style of winning the fight before it even started. He did it to Joe Frazier in their three fights, and he did it most notably to Foreman before the Rumble in the Jungle. He would have pulled out every possible stop in going after Tyson before the fight - said shit about everything from his momma to his rape convictions to his pigeons - and would have had Mike so fucking tight, and so fucking angry, before the fight that Tyson would want to just tear his head off.

This sounds great, right? But it’s not, cause in pro boxing, when you’re tense, you get tired, and when you’re pissed off, you make HUGE mistakes.This, of course, would have played directly into Ali’s hands.

Also, Ali was, at 6’3", much taller than most give him credit for. In reality, even though he’s always portrayed as smaller than Foreman, they were about the same size, and Ali had a bigger fist and a longer reach. Foreman was just wider and more intimidating. Ali would have a MASSIVE reach advantage over the 5’10" or 5’11" Tyson, and he would have known how to use it.

Tyson was awesome at using his peekaboo style to get inside, that’s true, but as fast as he would come forward, Ali would have slipped away, especially at 22 years old, when he was arguably at his best after the Patterson/Liston victories. Patterson, of course, was also trained by Cus D’Amato, and used the same peekaboo style (although not so perfectly as Tyson did.)

And, even though his angle were incredible - he could shift around your lead hand, hit you with a right hook in the ribs, follow with an uppercut, and all from a spot where you couldn’t hit him - they only worked on the inside because he was too damned short. As a result, that would have been seriously neutralized against a fleet-footed opponent.

And then there is Ali’s chin, which he rarely gets credit for but was actually incredible. He stood up to Joe Frazier’s wildly devastating left hook for 36 rounds and only got knocked down once (and he barely took a count before popping up) and stood in with and convincingly defeated some of the hardest punchers the game’s ever seen in Liston, Foreman, Shavers, and Frazier.

So Ali-Tyson I always see going one way.

The first few rounds are Ali moving and dancing, jabbing and talking, and occasionally hitting Tyson with a couple of solid rights, just to let him know that coming in is a bad idea. Tyson comes forward, maybe lands a few shots, but Ali is moving away all the time and rolling them. He’s gonna tire Mike out before he decides to fight him.

As the middle rounds progress, Tyson gets in a couple times, lands some hard shots, some good 5-6-3’s, some hooks and uppercuts that shake Ali a little… but as the rounds keep passing, and you get into the eighth, ninth, and tenth, Tyson - who could NEVER go the distance against a good fighter, and didn’t know what to do when someone could not only stand up to his punch, but fight back - would start getting hit with a lot of the same punches that Joe Frazier did - a lot of 2-3-2’s, straight shots that keep him too far to punch back without taking a lot of punishment.

Ali would time his slips, start punching towards his shoulders so Mike put his face right into them, and would follow with combinations that stung just enough before dipping back out and making Tyson try to cut off the ring.

By the championship rounds, Tyson is probably exhausted, and his right eye is probably swelling. More importantly, though, he’s demoralized, like all punchers get when they’re used to the guy in front of them disappearing after one blow. Ali knows this, and now he’s tearing into him - look at round 14 of Ali-Frazier III, where Joe is just getting absolutely murdered by lead rights and hooks - and I suspect that some point in the 11th, 12th, or 13th round (if we’re talking about an old-school 15 rounds), Ali knocks him out or makes him quit.

Who knows. I could be wrong. But I’ve thought about this one for a long time, and I just do not see Ali - who never, ever, ever got knocked out - losing this one.

GOAT. All day.[/quote]

Absolutely, all of this.

I think the mental aspect might be the biggest part of it.

The speculation is that a “prime” Tyson has Cus in his corner and does not break mentally. The problem is the only fight where any Tyson got in trouble or, even had a rough time, and still came away with a win was against “BoneCrusher” Smith. Tyson was an absolute front runner. He might have been the most destructive champ of all time, IF he got an early advantage. However he never showed an ability to struggle through a bad fight and find a way to win. He destroyed early on, and buckled against Holyfield and Lewis (putting aside Douglas).

Ali loved to get psychological advantages and I think Tyson would be especially vulnerable to it.

As far as who is a bigger shit bag:

I think key note speaker at a KKK rally is less horrible than rape.

Ali was never the man pop culture holds him up as. He sure as shit was not who Will Smith painted him as. I have never heard of him being accused of rape.

Regards,

Robert A

EDTA: Joe Louis would have eaten Ali’s lunch.

EDTA2: If you say Klitchko three times in your bathroom mirror a stocky cuban guy with a sexy avatar shows up.

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Irish question, could Ali have taken a couple hits from Mike? I mean power punches.[/quote]

I am not trying to speak for FightinIrish, but Ali ate shots from George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and most significantly Earnie Shavers. I submit that all of those guys hit as hard, or harder, than Tyson. Shavers being the stand out in that group. He was on another level than even Foreman.

Shavers HL

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Irish question, could Ali have taken a couple hits from Mike? I mean power punches.[/quote]

Well, that’s kind of a loaded question, and the answer is both yes and no.

See, a lot more goes into knocking a guy out than just outright punching power. It’s actually a combination of a lot of different factors, not the least of which is timing. So if you’re asking whether Ali could get unsuspectingly cold cocked by Tyson and stay upright, well, I’m going to tell you that his chances are probably the same as ours.

But if you’re asking me, “Could he take a couple shots in a boxing match from a guy that can hit has hard as Mike?” than I’m going to say the answer is absolutely, because when he’s expecting the shots, he knows how to minimize the damage by shedding/blocking/rolling with the power and, at the same time, get Tyson into a position where he’s not going to be able to deliver all his force on those blows.

This is the nature of boxing, and i’ts how pros manage to stand in there for so long against other guys who know how to punch.

But the one thing you hear from all boxers everywhere - and this is true - is that it’s the punch you don’t see coming that truly hurts you. In Olympic boxing maybe it’s that hook that’s blocked by the cheek of your headgear until it’s too late to see it coming, and in the pros maybe it’s that uppercut in the middle of a combination that snakes through your guard and comes in from a totally different angle than you were prepared to deal with.

The worst part is that these are the ones that really hurt, even if they’re not thrown quite as hard as the rest of them.

So it’s not so much that Tyson couldn’t KO anyone that’s ever lived with his punches; if they’re not expecting it, he definitely could. It’s whether or not he could put himself into position to deliver effective punches, and punches that Ali wouldn’t see coming, by really getting in close and working combinations to the body and head in order to set up a few really good, Mike Tyson-trademarked shots in, that have the range, timing, and power behind it to floor Ali.

My bet would be no, because Ali would never let him get into that position.

Power without accuracy and timing is useless, and it means nothing when you can’t get a hold of something to hit.

Ask every single fighter who’s fought Floyd Mayweather.

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Irish question, could Ali have taken a couple hits from Mike? I mean power punches.[/quote]

I am not trying to speak for FightinIrish, but Ali ate shots from George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and most significantly Earnie Shavers. I submit that all of those guys hit as hard, or harder, than Tyson. Shavers being the stand out in that group. He was on another level than even Foreman.

Shavers HL

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

Absolutely agree.

But young Tyson and Shavers are too totally different fighters, and Ali would probably have more trouble with Tyson because of the latter’s speed.

Shavers and Foreman were cut from the same cloth - power punchers who couldn’t really move great, were a bit sloppy, and just relied on those huge right hands to win fights.

Tyson is a different animal - he’s much more like Joe Frazier than either of those, but a faster Joe Frazier with a right hand who hit just a little harder. That’s why the Ali fight is so interesting.

I agree totally that it would have been Tyson’s mind, and his inability to fight well in the championship rounds, that would have lost him this fight. It certainly wouldn’t be because of any physical disadvantage, even though I did list reach and height as one before… if Tyson could box at the pace he does in the first six rounds, all fight, like Joe Frazier did, he has a way better shot at winning a fight with Ali.

But we all know that could not happen.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Irish question, could Ali have taken a couple hits from Mike? I mean power punches.[/quote]

I am not trying to speak for FightinIrish, but Ali ate shots from George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and most significantly Earnie Shavers. I submit that all of those guys hit as hard, or harder, than Tyson. Shavers being the stand out in that group. He was on another level than even Foreman.

Shavers HL

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

Absolutely agree.

But young Tyson and Shavers are too totally different fighters, and Ali would probably have more trouble with Tyson because of the latter’s speed.

Shavers and Foreman were cut from the same cloth - power punchers who couldn’t really move great, were a bit sloppy, and just relied on those huge right hands to win fights.

Tyson is a different animal - he’s much more like Joe Frazier than either of those, but a faster Joe Frazier with a right hand who hit just a little harder. That’s why the Ali fight is so interesting.

I agree totally that it would have been Tyson’s mind, and his inability to fight well in the championship rounds, that would have lost him this fight. It certainly wouldn’t be because of any physical disadvantage, even though I did list reach and height as one before… if Tyson could box at the pace he does in the first six rounds, all fight, like Joe Frazier did, he has a way better shot at winning a fight with Ali.

But we all know that could not happen.[/quote]

This is basically exactly what I wrote earlier that was somehow skipped over… Honestly, I don’t think it’d even make it six rounds. Again, young Tyson was like Robo-Frazier. His speed, power, timing and ability to string together beautiful, accurate and powerful combos (an often looked over part of Tyson’s game) would’ve been too much for Ali. I also said Joe Louis is the greatest HW of all time.

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Ali easy. Look what he did to Prime Foreman.

/thread. [/quote]

That was my thought too, it was never a secret how to beat Tyson.

You just had to outwait him, take a few hits, let him run out of steam.

The problem is though, what he can dish out in the 3-4 rounds while he runs out of steam.

So Alis whole rope-a-dope thing might have fit perfectly.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Ali easy. Look what he did to Prime Foreman.

/thread. [/quote]

That was my thought too, it was never a secret how to beat Tyson.

You just had to outwait him, take a few hits, let him run out of steam.

The problem is though, what he can dish out in the 3-4 rounds while he runs out of steam.

So Alis whole rope-a-dope thing might have fit perfectly.

[/quote]

Two COMPLETELY different fighters.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Irish question, could Ali have taken a couple hits from Mike? I mean power punches.[/quote]

I am not trying to speak for FightinIrish, but Ali ate shots from George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and most significantly Earnie Shavers. I submit that all of those guys hit as hard, or harder, than Tyson. Shavers being the stand out in that group. He was on another level than even Foreman.

Shavers HL

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

Absolutely agree.

But young Tyson and Shavers are too totally different fighters, and Ali would probably have more trouble with Tyson because of the latter’s speed.

Shavers and Foreman were cut from the same cloth - power punchers who couldn’t really move great, were a bit sloppy, and just relied on those huge right hands to win fights.

Tyson is a different animal - he’s much more like Joe Frazier than either of those, but a faster Joe Frazier with a right hand who hit just a little harder. That’s why the Ali fight is so interesting.

I agree totally that it would have been Tyson’s mind, and his inability to fight well in the championship rounds, that would have lost him this fight. It certainly wouldn’t be because of any physical disadvantage, even though I did list reach and height as one before… if Tyson could box at the pace he does in the first six rounds, all fight, like Joe Frazier did, he has a way better shot at winning a fight with Ali.

But we all know that could not happen.[/quote]

Agree on all points.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Ali easy. Look what he did to Prime Foreman.

/thread. [/quote]

That was my thought too, it was never a secret how to beat Tyson.

You just had to outwait him, take a few hits, let him run out of steam.

The problem is though, what he can dish out in the 3-4 rounds while he runs out of steam.

So Alis whole rope-a-dope thing might have fit perfectly.

[/quote]

I don’t think that would be Ali’s path to victory.

I would point to how he handled Frazier or even Liston as a more likely strategy.

As it was noted above Foreman and Tyson don’t have similar styles, even if they often achieved similar results. Foreman always plodded and threw bombs. When Tyson was at his most destructive he used footwork and combinations to take people apart.

Also, I don’t think Tyson got undone by people who “out waited” him as much as interrupted him. Lewis and especially Holifield put on a clinic of hitting or clashing with him and breaking his rhythm. I see Ali tricking Tyson into running into Jabs and straights rather than trying to cover up and wear him out. Others tried that, with disastrous results.

Regards,

Robert A

It bothers me when people talk about Tyson as if he was only a puncher. That’s true of his post prison career sure, and its probably the part that people remember the most sadly.

In his youth the dude was a nearly PERFECT fighter. I do not think I am exaggerating. Deep seated issues aside, he is technically perfect in his youth. He had a ramrod, accurate jab, excellent technique and leverage, his footwork is vastly underrated (show me how many fighters can go from standing in front of you to being right at your fucking side, in position to take your head off before you can even blink), he had phenomenal speed, I would go as far as saying he was faster than Ali, and he always threw punches in bunches.

He had great defense, maybe some of the best ever exhibited in the heavyweight division. It is completely demoralizing to be in there with someone who can not only hit you like a truck, but you can’t hit him back. Everytime you throw, you miss and he makes you pay.

As to talk of tyson being only a frontrunner, honestly what examples are there of this. The bonecrusher smith fight showed tyson was more than willing to adapt to an opponent who was going to try to survive to the late rounds, and he thoroughly outboxed smith with simple combinations for the rest of the night when he saw what kind of fight it was going to be. Mitch green held up for 10 rounds too, Tyson showed no signs of fatigue, and adjusted his pace accordingly. IT’s not like he was a dumb fighter. To the contrary, a true student of the game.

I wouldn’t give much credence to examples from tyson’s post prison career since it was widely known he was well on his way to becoming a full blown alcoholic, had a cocaine habit and was reportedly seen partying just mere days before some fights. Its no more use using these fights as examples if we’re talking about “primes” than it using examples of Ali’s late career of how he would be a punching bag, you follow?

As to Ali vs Tyson, I don’t know. Some people say foreman was a bigger puncher than tyson, but thats just the thing, young tyson never threw just one punch. It was furious and most importantly, accurate combinations.

I dont want to say decisively who takes it, because i believe it could go either way. But people act like it’s impossible Ali could get knocked out or even down. He was downed multiple times by frazier, and frazier is not as big, not as fast and not as accurate as Tyson was. Late rounds, decision Ali. Troubled waters early, KO tyson.

ali was a super fighter … one of the best of all time but a big jerk the way he treated joe frazier. and others, in real life… not just trying to psych joe f out before a fight… looks like the good lord punished ali for all the crap he started…

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

I dont want to say decisively who takes it, because i believe it could go either way. But people act like it’s impossible Ali could get knocked out or even down. He was downed multiple times by frazier, and frazier is not as big, not as fast and not as accurate as Tyson was. Late rounds, decision Ali. Troubled waters early, KO tyson.
[/quote]

Well, whether one agrees on Tysons sound tactics or not, I think we all can agree that if he got a punch in early its lights out.

And he was throwing quite a lot of them.

Ali, was the more intelligent fighter, I am pretty sure of that, but that does not help you if you get hit by a truck and if you step into the ring with one, you just might.

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
It bothers me when people talk about Tyson as if he was only a puncher. That’s true of his post prison career sure, and its probably the part that people remember the most sadly.

In his youth the dude was a nearly PERFECT fighter. I do not think I am exaggerating. Deep seated issues aside, he is technically perfect in his youth. He had a ramrod, accurate jab, excellent technique and leverage, his footwork is vastly underrated (show me how many fighters can go from standing in front of you to being right at your fucking side, in position to take your head off before you can even blink), he had phenomenal speed, I would go as far as saying he was faster than Ali, and he always threw punches in bunches.

He had great defense, maybe some of the best ever exhibited in the heavyweight division. It is completely demoralizing to be in there with someone who can not only hit you like a truck, but you can’t hit him back. Everytime you throw, you miss and he makes you pay.

As to talk of tyson being only a frontrunner, honestly what examples are there of this. The bonecrusher smith fight showed tyson was more than willing to adapt to an opponent who was going to try to survive to the late rounds, and he thoroughly outboxed smith with simple combinations for the rest of the night when he saw what kind of fight it was going to be. Mitch green held up for 10 rounds too, Tyson showed no signs of fatigue, and adjusted his pace accordingly. IT’s not like he was a dumb fighter. To the contrary, a true student of the game.

I wouldn’t give much credence to examples from tyson’s post prison career since it was widely known he was well on his way to becoming a full blown alcoholic, had a cocaine habit and was reportedly seen partying just mere days before some fights. Its no more use using these fights as examples if we’re talking about “primes” than it using examples of Ali’s late career of how he would be a punching bag, you follow?

As to Ali vs Tyson, I don’t know. Some people say foreman was a bigger puncher than tyson, but thats just the thing, young tyson never threw just one
punch. It was furious and most importantly, accurate combinations.

I dont want to say decisively who takes it, because i believe it could go either way. But people act like it’s impossible Ali could get knocked out or even down. He was downed multiple times by frazier, and frazier is not as big, not as fast and not as accurate as Tyson was. Late rounds, decision Ali. Troubled waters early, KO tyson.
[/quote]

Ali was never down multiple times. He was caught once by Frazier and ass hit the canvas but up went Ali. He was caught at times but could recover with an almost Mutant will.

You do make valid points on everything else.

I will say the One fighter Ali could never quite figure out was Ken Nortan

[quote]spk wrote:
ali was a super fighter … one of the best of all time but a big jerk the way he treated joe frazier. and others, in real life… not just trying to psych joe f out before a fight… looks like the good lord punished ali for all the crap he started…[/quote]

George Foreman was a raging dick too, but turned out allright.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]spk wrote:
ali was a super fighter … one of the best of all time but a big jerk the way he treated joe frazier. and others, in real life… not just trying to psych joe f out before a fight… looks like the good lord punished ali for all the crap he started…[/quote]

George Foreman was a raging dick too, but turned out allright. [/quote]

Lol, You sign up to stand in a ring with another guy and try your hardest to beat the shit out of him. I’m gonna guess there are a lot more asshole boxers than there are nice considerate ones.

Although the ultimate title match always seems to be ALi vs Tyson. Id rather see Tyson vs Foreman

[quote]spk wrote:
ali was a super fighter … one of the best of all time but a big jerk the way he treated joe frazier. and others, in real life… not just trying to psych joe f out before a fight… looks like the good lord punished ali for all the crap he started…[/quote]

Ali admitted he over hyped the first fight and much of it had to do with him knowing he was not the same man he was 3 years before and he pushed to shake Frazier. However many people forget Ali didn’t have to take that 3rd fight. It was a almost reverse of what happened with Frazier taking Ali fight to get him back. No one really thought Frazier had it anymore The humiliation he took from Big Mean Forman took his will and it was seen in his later fights.

Ali took that fight to not only have a trilogy but to pay Frazier back for helping him. Also after the fight he called Frazier the Greatest fighter he ever seen (other than himself, hahah come on it’s Ali).

And for anyone else who wants to talk smack about Ali. I’ll say this, he walk the walk. The man may have said crazy shit but he then laced up and took on all challengers.

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
It bothers me when people talk about Tyson as if he was only a puncher. That’s true of his post prison career sure, and its probably the part that people remember the most sadly.

In his youth the dude was a nearly PERFECT fighter. I do not think I am exaggerating. Deep seated issues aside, he is technically perfect in his youth. He had a ramrod, accurate jab, excellent technique and leverage, his footwork is vastly underrated (show me how many fighters can go from standing in front of you to being right at your fucking side, in position to take your head off before you can even blink), he had phenomenal speed, I would go as far as saying he was faster than Ali, and he always threw punches in bunches.

He had great defense, maybe some of the best ever exhibited in the heavyweight division. It is completely demoralizing to be in there with someone who can not only hit you like a truck, but you can’t hit him back. Everytime you throw, you miss and he makes you pay.

As to talk of tyson being only a frontrunner, honestly what examples are there of this. The bonecrusher smith fight showed tyson was more than willing to adapt to an opponent who was going to try to survive to the late rounds, and he thoroughly outboxed smith with simple combinations for the rest of the night when he saw what kind of fight it was going to be. Mitch green held up for 10 rounds too, Tyson showed no signs of fatigue, and adjusted his pace accordingly. IT’s not like he was a dumb fighter. To the contrary, a true student of the game.

I wouldn’t give much credence to examples from tyson’s post prison career since it was widely known he was well on his way to becoming a full blown alcoholic, had a cocaine habit and was reportedly seen partying just mere days before some fights. Its no more use using these fights as examples if we’re talking about “primes” than it using examples of Ali’s late career of how he would be a punching bag, you follow?

As to Ali vs Tyson, I don’t know. Some people say foreman was a bigger puncher than tyson, but thats just the thing, young tyson never threw just one punch. It was furious and most importantly, accurate combinations.

I dont want to say decisively who takes it, because i believe it could go either way. But people act like it’s impossible Ali could get knocked out or even down. He was downed multiple times by frazier, and frazier is not as big, not as fast and not as accurate as Tyson was. Late rounds, decision Ali. Troubled waters early, KO tyson.
[/quote]

Let it be known that I don’t disagree with any of this. Tyson was fast in both punch and footwork, and that’s why this fight is different than any other, and so intriguing.

But I’m sure I don’t need to remind you Aussie, but for the others - remember, this is not the Ali that fought Foreman that I’m talking about - that was a 32-year-old Ali that was already slowing down.

Hell, I’m not talking about the 29-year-old Ali that lost to Frazier either, in his third fight back after being suspended for three years (a lifetime in the career of a boxer.)

I’m talking about the Ali that absolutely destroyed Floyd Patterson, who, if you watch him, looks a whole lot like Iron Mike in his style.

Just watch Round 3 of this. Look at that jab. Look at how beautiful, how fast, how pinpoint accurate it is, and how it blows right through that peekaboo style, and most importantly, how it doesn’t let Floyd Patterson get ANYWHERE near him.

Seriously, this guy was an artist with his fists, and every fight was just another piece of that.