[quote]Liv92 wrote:
You guys are seriously doubting that Fedor can beat Brock? -_-[/quote]
No. but the only way it’s gonna happen is if Brock Lesnar keeps pissing off the UFC’s sponsors with that WWE style hissy fit he threw after the last fight with Mir.
You guys have seen videos of shane at 285 right? a lean 285
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Brock is a true heavyweight. He is big and strong, and a talented athlete. If you want to break down who is considered the top heavyweights in the world in the past 5 years, you have talented LHW’s who do not cut weight, or big strong guys without an athletic bone in their body. Fedor, Couture, Nog, and Cro Cop are all great, but all of them are no bigger than any of the LHW’s. Barnett and AA break this mold, but Barnett’s career has been a roller coaster of poor judgment and inactivity, and AA has a glass jaw and after 8 years still can’t put his hands in front of his face and circle out instead of straight back which doesn’t really demonstrate to me he has the ability to adapt and learn like successful MMA fighters show.
MMA was a blip on the radar in the sporting world, and people like Brock were and have been picked off into other sports because they are the type of guys people want to pony up money for. Something extraordinary. He and guys like Carwin are the future of the sport.
good post. this is the resurection of the HW division. It is nothing like the hayday of Pride or the previous HW glory days in the UFC. Completly different animals.
[/quote]
Very very true…
Ill agree with dhickey 
good summation.
kmc
Cmon guys, it isn’t like we haven’t seen a super strong, super athletic HW with a collegiate wrestling pedigree come in a go on a tear in the division.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Cmon guys, it isn’t like we haven’t seen a super strong, super athletic HW with a collegiate wrestling pedigree come in a go on a tear in the division.[/quote]
we did
back in time Coleman, and Mark Kerr come to mind pretty quickly.
I guess I have a hard time getting excited about the dude.
kmc
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Cmon guys, it isn’t like we haven’t seen a super strong, super athletic HW with a collegiate wrestling pedigree come in a go on a tear in the division.
we did
back in time Coleman, and Mark Kerr come to mind pretty quickly.
I guess I have a hard time getting excited about the dude.
kmc[/quote]
I was being sarcastic dammit
[quote]slimjim wrote:
kmcnyc wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Cmon guys, it isn’t like we haven’t seen a super strong, super athletic HW with a collegiate wrestling pedigree come in a go on a tear in the division.
we did
back in time Coleman, and Mark Kerr come to mind pretty quickly.
I guess I have a hard time getting excited about the dude.
kmc
I was being sarcastic dammit[/quote]
oh yeah um sorry doood.
Nice observation. The thing is that good strikers are far and few in HW division. I think most are apprehensive because they are worried about exposing themselves and being overpowered and taken down with Brock on top of them. A position that NO ONE wants to be in. But if you’re fighting against Brock for the belt,you best give it all you got and fight like you really want that belt. You have to fight a smart fight…and like I said,respect his strengths and take the fight to him…but you can’t get too aggressive with him in close proximity. [/quote]
I completely agree. his take down ability and strength make standing with him very dangerous for someone without a great takedown defence and striking ability to match it. I mean mir actually came at him and backed him up into the cage and brock went back into takedown mode and beat him right after. if striking is his weakness than exploiting it definately would be a slippery slope to compete on.
I dont think it think its fair to put a street thug fighter like kimbo or a pure wrestler like bobby lashley in with lesnars name. kimbo only knows how to stand and throw big punches, he has no experience in anything else and would easily be beaten by any decent fighter with a true mma backgroud. and lashley’s fights have been less than impressive and the sapp fight showed that lashley truly is only good at wrestling. and unfortunately only being able to wrestle makes it very hard to win real matches, in time if his mma background begins to match his size and strength he might have a future in mma.
[quote]FightorFlight wrote:
I dont think it think its unfair to put a street thug fighter like kimbo or a pure wrestler like bobby lashley in with lesnars name. kimbo only knows how to stand and throw big punches, he has no experience in anything else and would easily be beaten by any decent fighter with a true mma backgroud. and lashley’s fights have been less than impressive and the sapp fight showed that lashley truly is only good at wrestling. and unfortunately only being able to wrestle makes it very hard to win real matches, in time if his mma background begins to match his size and strength he might have a future in mma.[/quote]
What exactly was lashley supposed to do against sapp besides out wrestle him? What do these big guys have to do to become true MMA fighters. Its like if they don’t do a jab cross jab combo into a Shoryuken followed by a Kamehameha they are not true fighters.
We can watch GSP sit on top of his opponents for 5 rounds and he becomes pound for pound best fighter but if Brock or Lashley do then that are just “one dimensional fighters” that will never do good. This double standard shit is getting old.
[quote]John S. wrote:
FightorFlight wrote:
I dont think it think its unfair to put a street thug fighter like kimbo or a pure wrestler like bobby lashley in with lesnars name. kimbo only knows how to stand and throw big punches, he has no experience in anything else and would easily be beaten by any decent fighter with a true mma backgroud. and lashley’s fights have been less than impressive and the sapp fight showed that lashley truly is only good at wrestling. and unfortunately only being able to wrestle makes it very hard to win real matches, in time if his mma background begins to match his size and strength he might have a future in mma.
What exactly was lashley supposed to do against sapp besides out wrestle him? What do these big guys have to do to become true MMA fighters. Its like if they don’t do a jab cross jab combo into a Shoryuken followed by a Kamehameha they are not true fighters.
We can watch GSP sit on top of his opponents for 5 rounds and he becomes pound for pound best fighter but if Brock or Lashley do then that are just “one dimensional fighters” that will never do good. This double standard shit is getting old.[/quote]
no shit. or people that have defended A silvas last two fights going on about lay and pray. I swear, some people just do not like wrestlers. Must be carry over from high school.
I’m pretty sure GSP dropped Alves and he dropped Fitch a lot. As much as I don’t like him he mixes it up really well.
[quote]John S. wrote:
if they don’t do a jab cross jab combo into a Shoryuken followed by a Kamehameha [/quote]
That’s my personal favorite combo.
[quote]John S. wrote:
FightorFlight wrote:
I dont think it think its fair to put a street thug fighter like kimbo or a pure wrestler like bobby lashley in with lesnars name. kimbo only knows how to stand and throw big punches, he has no experience in anything else and would easily be beaten by any decent fighter with a true mma backgroud. and lashley’s fights have been less than impressive and the sapp fight showed that lashley truly is only good at wrestling. and unfortunately only being able to wrestle makes it very hard to win real matches, in time if his mma background begins to match his size and strength he might have a future in mma.
What exactly was lashley supposed to do against sapp besides out wrestle him? What do these big guys have to do to become true MMA fighters. Its like if they don’t do a jab cross jab combo into a Shoryuken followed by a Kamehameha they are not true fighters.
We can watch GSP sit on top of his opponents for 5 rounds and he becomes pound for pound best fighter but if Brock or Lashley do then that are just “one dimensional fighters” that will never do good. This double standard shit is getting old.[/quote]
First of all i mistyped and ment to say its that i dont think its fair, not unfair. i was trying to say that wrestling will not win fights alone. and you compared apples and oranges. GSP has an amazing and diverse background and can win a match in several ways, not just wrestling. if controlling his opponenet is what he needs to do then thats what he does. but if he needed to stand and strike with punches or kicks he could do it. a fighter has to be able and prepared to fight GSP on the ground and standing because he is a well rounded fighter. but wrestling alone is not a viable skill. wrestling alone can only win a fight by points. wrestling will not K.O. your opponent, it will not make him tap out. infact just wrestling will get fighters stood back up. i was trying to say that they are one dimensional. because lashley has just wrestled his opponents and as soon as someone has a good take down defence then what does lashley do? hes in trouble. same for kimbo, as soon as someone takes him down then what does he do. thats all i was saying. if wrestling can be combined with a standing skill then wrestling is obviously a great background to have. example GSP, Rashad Evans, Lesnar, dan henderson. all wrestling but they have combined it with something. until lashley has a striking ability that has to be delt with then he isnt a dangerous fighter.
[quote]FightorFlight wrote:
John S. wrote:
FightorFlight wrote:
I dont think it think its fair to put a street thug fighter like kimbo or a pure wrestler like bobby lashley in with lesnars name. kimbo only knows how to stand and throw big punches, he has no experience in anything else and would easily be beaten by any decent fighter with a true mma backgroud. and lashley’s fights have been less than impressive and the sapp fight showed that lashley truly is only good at wrestling. and unfortunately only being able to wrestle makes it very hard to win real matches, in time if his mma background begins to match his size and strength he might have a future in mma.
What exactly was lashley supposed to do against sapp besides out wrestle him? What do these big guys have to do to become true MMA fighters. Its like if they don’t do a jab cross jab combo into a Shoryuken followed by a Kamehameha they are not true fighters.
We can watch GSP sit on top of his opponents for 5 rounds and he becomes pound for pound best fighter but if Brock or Lashley do then that are just “one dimensional fighters” that will never do good. This double standard shit is getting old.
First of all i mistyped and ment to say its that i dont think its fair, not unfair. i was trying to say that wrestling will not win fights alone. and you compared apples and oranges. GSP has an amazing and diverse background and can win a match in several ways, not just wrestling. if controlling his opponenet is what he needs to do then thats what he does. but if he needed to stand and strike with punches or kicks he could do it. a fighter has to be able and prepared to fight GSP on the ground and standing because he is a well rounded fighter. but wrestling alone is not a viable skill. wrestling alone can only win a fight by points. wrestling will not K.O. your opponent, it will not make him tap out. infact just wrestling will get fighters stood back up. i was trying to say that they are one dimensional. because lashley has just wrestled his opponents and as soon as someone has a good take down defence then what does lashley do? hes in trouble. same for kimbo, as soon as someone takes him down then what does he do. thats all i was saying. if wrestling can be combined with a standing skill then wrestling is obviously a great background to have. example GSP, Rashad Evans, Lesnar, dan henderson. all wrestling but they have combined it with something. until lashley has a striking ability that has to be delt with then he isnt a dangerous fighter.[/quote]
Lets be fair to lashley tho, in the fight right before sapp he choked the guy out in like 30 seconds. And standing with sapp is probably not the best way to go about it so he hasn’t really been presented the option to show off his hands.
[quote]FightorFlight wrote:
I really think anyone can do it, in the cage anyone can win on any given night. But in lesnar vs. mir II i saw what looked to be a weakness in brock. no one has really had the balls to stand and strike with him. i really believe striking is his weakness in 2 ways.
ONE - he loves to throw these giant punches which are great when landed, but when he misses mir in the beginning of round 2 he literally spins and exposes his whole body and even his back until he gets turned back around. but he also no punch variety, just swing hard with the sledgehammers he calls hands.
TWO - when when mir finally got aggressive with his strikes and truly went at lesnar, lesnar doesnt stand tall and strike back he steps back and steps back and ends up back against the cage until he can wrestle him down. it looked like he didnt know what to do once someone actually came at him. i mean its easy to stand and fight someone when your the only one throwing punches while they just try to block and get out of the way. and we havent seen a good striker stand and really strike with lesnar.
lesnar hasnt been fighting long and it makes me wonder how great he is at taking big punches in return. thats a tolerance that most fighters have obtained because they have been doing whtat they do since they were kids or teens. but brock was a wrestler so he never took punches and looking through his 10 or 15 minutes of actual fight time how many times has he been hit hard? and i might be completely wrong but i would like to see someone try to stand and strike with him. his strength, size, and athletisism are incredible but they mask the fact that truly his only skill is wrestling and his heavy hands. [/quote]
Very, very few fighters can really fight while backing up, Brock is no exception, and Mir was smart to press him the way he did.
I’ll agree that Brock still has quite a few holes in his game and needs to bring up his striking considerably still if he wants to stay atop of the HW division. Some submission training would also be a good idea to fully round out his arsenal. But I think the striking is a more urgent weakness.
Lets be fair to lashley tho, in the fight right before sapp he choked the guy out in like 30 seconds. And standing with sapp is probably not the best way to go about it so he hasn’t really been presented the option to show off his hands.[/quote]
Yes he did choke out cook, but that quillotine was a quick and lucky hold that only happend because he missed badly on his first punch (which was an ugly charging punch) and grabbed on in an awkward way that heppend to lead to that guillotine. and sapp is huge and wrestling him was a good plan, but once he took him down it was ugly and lashleys ground and pound looked pretty bad. im just not impressed with lashleys ability to strike at this point at all. and vs jason guida his striking looked bad too. his punches seem inaccurate and unskillful. hes winning and experience is everything but his quality of opponenets has really lacked too.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
FightorFlight wrote:
I really think anyone can do it, in the cage anyone can win on any given night. But in lesnar vs. mir II i saw what looked to be a weakness in brock. no one has really had the balls to stand and strike with him. i really believe striking is his weakness in 2 ways.
ONE - he loves to throw these giant punches which are great when landed, but when he misses mir in the beginning of round 2 he literally spins and exposes his whole body and even his back until he gets turned back around. but he also no punch variety, just swing hard with the sledgehammers he calls hands.
TWO - when when mir finally got aggressive with his strikes and truly went at lesnar, lesnar doesnt stand tall and strike back he steps back and steps back and ends up back against the cage until he can wrestle him down. it looked like he didnt know what to do once someone actually came at him. i mean its easy to stand and fight someone when your the only one throwing punches while they just try to block and get out of the way. and we havent seen a good striker stand and really strike with lesnar.
lesnar hasnt been fighting long and it makes me wonder how great he is at taking big punches in return. thats a tolerance that most fighters have obtained because they have been doing whtat they do since they were kids or teens. but brock was a wrestler so he never took punches and looking through his 10 or 15 minutes of actual fight time how many times has he been hit hard? and i might be completely wrong but i would like to see someone try to stand and strike with him. his strength, size, and athletisism are incredible but they mask the fact that truly his only skill is wrestling and his heavy hands.
Very, very few fighters can really fight while backing up, Brock is no exception, and Mir was smart to press him the way he did.
I’ll agree that Brock still has quite a few holes in his game and needs to bring up his striking considerably still if he wants to stay atop of the HW division. Some submission training would also be a good idea to fully round out his arsenal. But I think the striking is a more urgent weakness.[/quote]
i absolutely agree with you. its obvious in his last fight that he has really matured as a fighter in a very short period of time. if he stays healthy and can continue to work on his weaknesses he will truly be a man amongst boys in that heavy weight division.
[quote]FightorFlight wrote:
Lets be fair to lashley tho, in the fight right before sapp he choked the guy out in like 30 seconds. And standing with sapp is probably not the best way to go about it so he hasn’t really been presented the option to show off his hands.
Yes he did choke out cook, but that quillotine was a quick and lucky hold that only happend because he missed badly on his first punch (which was an ugly charging punch) and grabbed on in an awkward way that heppend to lead to that guillotine. and sapp is huge and wrestling him was a good plan, but once he took him down it was ugly and lashleys ground and pound looked pretty bad. im just not impressed with lashleys ability to strike at this point at all. and vs jason guida his striking looked bad too. his punches seem inaccurate and unskillful. hes winning and experience is everything but his quality of opponenets has really lacked too.[/quote]
He is taking it slow, but the level of his competitors far exceeds that of someone like kimbos.
I personally think lashley is a great fighter and will do well.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Maybe, but his time in the WWE shouldn’t be much of an indication. IDK, people point out that he was rocked by Randy and by Frank but they must have a differnt definition of being rocked. Seemed like it didn’t effect him much. I really though Frank looked pretty quick and sharp. That flying knee was sweet. He just seemed to get a little too anxious. I think we will see Lesnar’s chin tested, but someone is going to have to really work on avoiding the TD while landing opportune shots. If you are willing to get taken down for that one big shot, you are going to get you ass kicked like frank did.
[/quote]
Brock himself was quoted as “seeing tweety birds” after both Randy’s punch and Frank’s Knee.