[quote]dk44 wrote:
You would hope that we would have evolved past this B.S. but sadly, it seems that the division is growing amongst us instead of getting weaker.
[/quote]I don’t think this is true. It’s definitely better than it was a hundred years ago, and it will be better in a hundred years. Just these things take a lot of time.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
they are hiding guilt behind pointed fingers. Most white people have to override a learned but ingrained dislike for blacks. It’s like the first reaction is “that guy is black” and then “but he carries himself well and his pants fit, he could be ok I will him a chance.” This sentiment is fading with each new generation though. For what its worth, as unfair as it is, whites form their stereotypes bases on what they see and hear on the radio and tv for the most part. And the images put forth aren’t stellar. People who mingle know better but we definitely have white and black neighborhoods, churches et cetera and on both sides the other is the bogeyman. You are correct.
[/quote]
Fuck that, to say that “Most white people have to overcome their dislike of blacks” is stereotyping in the worst of ways and it’s utter bullshit, and fucking offensive to people like me who have never thought like that and know plenty of people that have never thought like that.
[/quote]
Apparently, all the black-hating white crackers residing in Houston are representative of middle white america. We know this because they told us so. I’m still not sure how Obama got elected given all those white people that see blacks as inferior. There must have been some serious therapy occurring while waiting for their turn at the voting booth. Their “ingrained” dislike of blacks became “disingrained” while waiting in line or, they waited in line to vote for so long, that their successive generations of children voted for the man, not them.
I’ll say it again, I’ll allow that parts of the South are different. But I do not accept that “most white people have an ingrained dislike for blacks”. Or maybe all the white people I know, met and worked with were hiding it. Maybe I’m really black?
I know one thing based on my experience traveling this country; show me a lower class, largely uneducated predominately white neighborhood, and I’ll find you one racist after another. Same with black neighborhoods.
Being ignorant and uneducated is not “ingrained” in anyone other than the ignorant and uneducated.[/quote] Highly educated engineers, professionals, executives et cetera do share the sentiment I discussed. The first reaction is exactly as I stated, the higher mind then kicks in and says “this isn’t fair or logical” and logic prevails. The immediate response is a learned but ingrained one for many, especially in the south. You can go to poor neighborhoods and find trash waving confederate flags and hating just to hate, also racism but different. Institutionalized racism is real, at least here. Kudos if you don’t share the sentiment but to flat out deny it exists is ignorant and damaging.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Like Tim Wise mentioned though, all throughout history, it isn’t like even ancient white civilizations all sang together in harmony. There has been war between people since Cain and Abel…and they were brothers. What Tim Wise was focusing on, however, was the continued social effects even into our current times where “races” are now divided simply because it helps those in true power keep EVERYONE subdued by even allowing one group to think it better than another based on skin color.
If a property value can go down based on the race of the family living in a house alone, there may be a problem.
That instance he spoke of about the law they tried to pass about only blood relatives being allowed to repopulate the area in New Orleans is really tragic. It is because of those social constraints that those same poor white people will stay poor…still thinking they are better than the same people across the river all because they are darker.[/quote] You are right X, people do refuse to listen. My posts are already being misread. Everybody knows everything I guess. Just so you know, I do not endorse racism of any kind, I am merely acknowledging that you are correct, racism from blatant ignorance to institutionalized inequalities, does exist. There are good people out there though, and with each new generation it becomes less of an issue so take heart.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
they are hiding guilt behind pointed fingers. Most white people have to override a learned but ingrained dislike for blacks. It’s like the first reaction is “that guy is black” and then “but he carries himself well and his pants fit, he could be ok I will him a chance.” This sentiment is fading with each new generation though. For what its worth, as unfair as it is, whites form their stereotypes bases on what they see and hear on the radio and tv for the most part. And the images put forth aren’t stellar. People who mingle know better but we definitely have white and black neighborhoods, churches et cetera and on both sides the other is the bogeyman. You are correct.
[/quote]
Fuck that, to say that “Most white people have to overcome their dislike of blacks” is stereotyping in the worst of ways and it’s utter bullshit, and fucking offensive to people like me who have never thought like that and know plenty of people that have never thought like that.
[/quote]
Apparently, all the black-hating white crackers residing in Houston are representative of middle white america. We know this because they told us so. I’m still not sure how Obama got elected given all those white people that see blacks as inferior. There must have been some serious therapy occurring while waiting for their turn at the voting booth. Their “ingrained” dislike of blacks became “disingrained” while waiting in line or, they waited in line to vote for so long, that their successive generations of children voted for the man, not them.
I’ll say it again, I’ll allow that parts of the South are different. But I do not accept that “most white people have an ingrained dislike for blacks”. Or maybe all the white people I know, met and worked with were hiding it. Maybe I’m really black?
I know one thing based on my experience traveling this country; show me a lower class, largely uneducated predominately white neighborhood, and I’ll find you one racist after another. Same with black neighborhoods.
Being ignorant and uneducated is not “ingrained” in anyone other than the ignorant and uneducated.[/quote] Highly educated engineers, professionals, executives et cetera do share the sentiment I discussed. The first reaction is exactly as I stated, the higher mind then kicks in and says “this isn’t fair or logical” and logic prevails. The immediate response is a learned but ingrained one for many, especially in the south. You can go to poor neighborhoods and find trash waving confederate flags and hating just to hate, also racism but different. Institutionalized racism is real, at least here. Kudos if you don’t share the sentiment but to flat out deny it exists is ignorant and damaging.
[/quote]
I made no such denial. And I already conceded the South is different.
I’ve been there, and I travel there still. I have friends there. And the institutionalized racism you speak of is no different than that carried by blacks.
We still managed to elect a black President in spite of that “ingrained” black inferiority complex you claim all whites share, in case you haven’t noticed. Or perhaps your claim is best stated that “for some whites, particularly in the South, racism is ingrained”.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Like Tim Wise mentioned though, all throughout history, it isn’t like even ancient white civilizations all sang together in harmony. There has been war between people since Cain and Abel…and they were brothers. What Tim Wise was focusing on, however, was the continued social effects even into our current times where “races” are now divided simply because it helps those in true power keep EVERYONE subdued by even allowing one group to think it better than another based on skin color.
If a property value can go down based on the race of the family living in a house alone, there may be a problem.
That instance he spoke of about the law they tried to pass about only blood relatives being allowed to repopulate the area in New Orleans is really tragic. It is because of those social constraints that those same poor white people will stay poor…still thinking they are better than the same people across the river all because they are darker.[/quote] You are right X, people do refuse to listen. My posts are already being misread. Everybody knows everything I guess. Just so you know, I do not endorse racism of any kind, I am merely acknowledging that you are correct, racism from blatant ignorance to institutionalized inequalities, does exist. There are good people out there though, and with each new generation it becomes less of an issue so take heart.
[/quote]
Can you please provide a quote where you have been “misread”? In addition, please provide the quote where someone “refused to listen” and denied that racism exists. Has anyone in this thread denied racism?
As for X, I’m not the least bit racist, and I’d certainly judge him by his appearance. So perhaps he’s experiencing a mixture of reactions beyond merely being black (I’m not denying in good ol Houston that there is institutionalized racism). The body type, together with the shaved head and beard do not help. It’s unfair, but everyone looks at the book cover before they open and read.
Now let’s see your next reply and the gymnastics you employ to make it seem like we have some huge disagreement here.
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
To not categorize or stereotype is to go against the very laws of nature. It is a necessary trait for survival. without the ability all higher level animals would have died off a long time ago.
The deer knows it should avoid lions, now there might be some nice vegitarian lion, but that is not a risk the deer should take, I know it is a poor analogy. But here is the thing, to stereotype based on manerism, dialect, the way you dress carry yourself, these things are not racism. They are good qualities and the fact that less and less people see this shows the loss of scientific and pragmatic thought in our societies.
Men and women are different, races have different genetic and phenotypic characteristics, it is the way it is. and to recognize those differences is not racist.
Now to be belligerent to someone solely because of their race or skin color is a different story. But seriously to undermine science and statistics because it might offend someone is idiotic.
Genetic predisposition to disease and behavior is a reality like it or not.
I am not defending racism, I am merely showing the absurdity of stating you cannot use statistics o help predict genetic or cultural influences in behavior. [/quote]
I had a rascist dog once. We got her from a rescue centre. She was a very timid and sweet dog and nice in every other way, but when ever we drove through Camberwell (London) to visit relatives she would bark ferociously at every black person crossing the road that came anywhere near our car. She didn’t do it to white people.
It was very embarasssing.
[/quote]
lol
That hilarious.
[/quote]
I was told once that I was giving away racist kittens I will never forget that crazy lady
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
[quote]dk44 wrote:
You would hope that we would have evolved past this B.S. but sadly, it seems that the division is growing amongst us instead of getting weaker.
[/quote]I don’t think this is true. It’s definitely better than it was a hundred years ago, and it will be better in a hundred years. Just these things take a lot of time.
[/quote]
I just can’t decide if it is better or not. I know you are getting at slavery, and I understand where you are coming from. For sure we are a better country in not allowing it to continue. But it seems that if it were still allowed we would have it in a heartbeat. I was meaning actually evolving to where it wouldn’t even occue in someone’s mind that they are better/worse just because of color. At this point, with all the advances in just about every aspect of mankind, you would think that we would be passed all of that. Who knows…best bet is to try to affect those you can in everyday life in a positive manner. Show both sides (actually all sides) that you are above that and it will trickle down.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
they are hiding guilt behind pointed fingers. Most white people have to override a learned but ingrained dislike for blacks. It’s like the first reaction is “that guy is black” and then “but he carries himself well and his pants fit, he could be ok I will him a chance.” This sentiment is fading with each new generation though. For what its worth, as unfair as it is, whites form their stereotypes bases on what they see and hear on the radio and tv for the most part. And the images put forth aren’t stellar. People who mingle know better but we definitely have white and black neighborhoods, churches et cetera and on both sides the other is the bogeyman. You are correct.
[/quote]
Fuck that, to say that “Most white people have to overcome their dislike of blacks” is stereotyping in the worst of ways and it’s utter bullshit, and fucking offensive to people like me who have never thought like that and know plenty of people that have never thought like that.
[/quote]
Apparently, all the black-hating white crackers residing in Houston are representative of middle white america. We know this because they told us so. I’m still not sure how Obama got elected given all those white people that see blacks as inferior. There must have been some serious therapy occurring while waiting for their turn at the voting booth. Their “ingrained” dislike of blacks became “disingrained” while waiting in line or, they waited in line to vote for so long, that their successive generations of children voted for the man, not them.
I’ll say it again, I’ll allow that parts of the South are different. But I do not accept that “most white people have an ingrained dislike for blacks”. Or maybe all the white people I know, met and worked with were hiding it. Maybe I’m really black?
I know one thing based on my experience traveling this country; show me a lower class, largely uneducated predominately white neighborhood, and I’ll find you one racist after another. Same with black neighborhoods.
Being ignorant and uneducated is not “ingrained” in anyone other than the ignorant and uneducated.[/quote] Highly educated engineers, professionals, executives et cetera do share the sentiment I discussed. The first reaction is exactly as I stated, the higher mind then kicks in and says “this isn’t fair or logical” and logic prevails. The immediate response is a learned but ingrained one for many, especially in the south. You can go to poor neighborhoods and find trash waving confederate flags and hating just to hate, also racism but different. Institutionalized racism is real, at least here. Kudos if you don’t share the sentiment but to flat out deny it exists is ignorant and damaging.
[/quote]
I made no such denial. And I already conceded the South is different.
I’ve been there, and I travel there still. I have friends there. And the institutionalized racism you speak of is no different than that carried by blacks.
We still managed to elect a black President in spite of that “ingrained” black inferiority complex you claim all whites share, in case you haven’t noticed. Or perhaps your claim is best stated that “for some whites, particularly in the South, racism is ingrained”. [/quote] My disagreement was that racism is sequestered to trailer trash in, I assumed, the south as we were discussing the south. There are absolutely regional differences and racism is on both sides, I’m glad you can agree. I’m willing to bet Obama didn’t get many white votes in Texas. It could of been his race or his liberal leanings, most likely both though white liberals don’t do well either. For X and many across a large portion of our country, the sentiments and fears being discussed are a reality. He is not telling ghost stories and your implication that he is exaggerating is false. That is all.
[quote]Stern wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Stern wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Stern wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
they are hiding guilt behind pointed fingers. Most white people have to override a learned but ingrained dislike for blacks. It’s like the first reaction is “that guy is black” and then “but he carries himself well and his pants fit, he could be ok I will him a chance.” This sentiment is fading with each new generation though. For what its worth, as unfair as it is, whites form their stereotypes bases on what they see and hear on the radio and tv for the most part. And the images put forth aren’t stellar. People who mingle know better but we definitely have white and black neighborhoods, churches et cetera and on both sides the other is the bogeyman. You are correct.
[/quote]
Fuck that, to say that “Most white people have to overcome their dislike of blacks” is stereotyping in the worst of ways and it’s utter bullshit, and fucking offensive to people like me who have never thought like that and know plenty of people that have never thought like that.
[/quote]
Agreed. I grew up the minority in a black and Mexican suburb in Dallas and never once had to overcome any racial issues - even when I was a ‘honkey’ or ‘Elvis’. My parents didn’t raise a moron and I realised, as soon as I was old enough to make friends, that dickheads come in all shapes and colours.
[/quote]
Yeah?
I realized early on that I am an arrogant prick and that I could not afford to discriminate based on race, gender or sexual orientation if I wanted to discriminate based on intelligence, character and the existence of some sort of moral backbone.
[/quote]
Because I realised early on that a person who dislikes people who judge others by their skin colour and not by their individual character and merit is CLEARLY an arrogant prick?
[/quote]
No really.
He could be just lazy, or as dumb a box of rocks and not being able to discriminate based on something other than the entirely obvious…[/quote]
Ahhh so there isn’t a difference between discriminating against a behaviour as opposed to a colour. I mean, all racists aren’t racists eh?
[/quote]
First, What !?!
Second, since the question is out there for whatever reason, no, in some important aspects there is not.
Its all about feeling superior to make yourself feel better, it is just that racism is such a pathetic way of doing it.
If I look at the average skinhead for example, race is literally the only think they could use to make themselves feel superior to someone.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve written before, an assumption of racism on the part of the other is, in itself, racist.[/quote]
Sorry but this is bullshit. There has to a be an advantage for racism to occur. An oppressed group telling others that they are being oppressed is not racism. No matter the tone or description given. The minority lacks the influence to impose racism. I don’t think that I have every heard African Americans preaching superiority of their race when this bullshit dismissive comment comes out form the white side. They are fighting for equality there for it is not racist.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve written before, an assumption of racism on the part of the other is, in itself, racist.[/quote]
This comment requires the logic of a bigot. Look it up.
[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve written before, an assumption of racism on the part of the other is, in itself, racist.[/quote]
This comment requires the logic of a bigot. Look it up. [/quote]
It is very dismissive…and is the mentality that allows someone to think that even discussing a racist act makes someone racist…thereby allowing the majority to ignore the complaint altogether.
[quote]dk44 wrote:
I just can’t decide if it is better or not. I know you are getting at slavery, and I understand where you are coming from. For sure we are a better country in not allowing it to continue. But it seems that if it were still allowed we would have it in a heartbeat. I was meaning actually evolving to where it wouldn’t even occue in someone’s mind that they are better/worse just because of color. At this point, with all the advances in just about every aspect of mankind, you would think that we would be passed all of that. Who knows…best bet is to try to affect those you can in everyday life in a positive manner. Show both sides (actually all sides) that you are above that and it will trickle down.
[/quote]
It is better. I mean a hundred years ago, black people were getting lynched just for being black. I’m sure it was much worse back then. It’s only been 50 years since the Jim Crow laws were abolished. People still have a long way to go. I mean it’s not like you can convince a racist not to be a racist by talking about it to them. People get stuck in their ways. You can only wait for them to die and hope they don’t have an impact on anyone.
I think you can probably only influence the newer generation of kids by showing them how stupid it is. There will probably always be racists, but that group will get smaller and smaller as time goes on.
You may have a point with evolution. I don’t think it’s possible for humans to evolve from what I’ve heard on the subject (because there are so many of us). So there may be a possibility of not being able to get much more intelligent. Maybe there will be genetic engineering though. Who knows.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve written before, an assumption of racism on the part of the other is, in itself, racist.[/quote]
This comment requires the logic of a bigot. Look it up. [/quote]
It is very dismissive…and is the mentality that allows someone to think that even discussing a racist act makes someone racist…thereby allowing the majority to ignore the complaint altogether.[/quote]
Prof, I love your new av (and your recent series of avs)
/hijack
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve written before, an assumption of racism on the part of the other is, in itself, racist.[/quote]
This comment requires the logic of a bigot. Look it up. [/quote]
It is very dismissive…and is the mentality that allows someone to think that even discussing a racist act makes someone racist…thereby allowing the majority to ignore the complaint altogether.[/quote]
Prof, I love your new av (and your recent series of avs)
/hijack[/quote]
That’s lowfatmatt and his new camera.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
X 1,000
I wonder if he’d argue that “most blacks have to overcome their dislike of whites,” too. [/quote]
Never do I use this logic, but black folks would have shit fits if I had written that.
I don’t like the way this thread has turned out. While whites may not do a good job of understanding how and why blacks feel the way they do, when blacks say vitriolic, inflammatory things like “All whites hate blacks,” they’re proving to be just as bullheaded and ignorant as the folks that they’re decrying.[/quote]
As I’ve written before, an assumption of racism on the part of the other is, in itself, racist.[/quote]
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Ha ha ha!
New lows in reading (mis)comprehension.
No idea what you guys are commenting on, but it sure ain’t my post.
But I AM impressed with your ability to see what you want to see.
Well done![/quote]
Pretty sure I understood what you were saying, but you don’t understand what it takes to qualify something as rasism. Surely, he, I and anyone else would agree that people of all races must overcome dislike of others.
Your statement is made to imply that their is no difference in the effect of rasism imposed by a majority on a minority which is incorrect. You do not ofcourse say it this way because most likley you do not think about implications of your words. I
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
X 1,000
I wonder if he’d argue that “most blacks have to overcome their dislike of whites,” too. [/quote]
Never do I use this logic, but black folks would have shit fits if I had written that.
I don’t like the way this thread has turned out. While whites may not do a good job of understanding how and why blacks feel the way they do, when blacks say vitriolic, inflammatory things like “All whites hate blacks,” they’re proving to be just as bullheaded and ignorant as the folks that they’re decrying.[/quote]
As I’ve written before, an assumption of racism on the part of the other is, in itself, racist.[/quote]
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Ha ha ha!
New lows in reading (mis)comprehension.
No idea what you guys are commenting on, but it sure ain’t my post.
But I AM impressed with your ability to see what you want to see.
Well done![/quote]
Pretty sure I understood what you were saying, but you don’t understand what it takes to qualify something as rasism. Surely, he, I and anyone else would agree that people of all races must overcome dislike of others.
Your statement is made to imply that their is no difference in the effect of rasism imposed by a majority on a minority which is incorrect. You do not ofcourse say it this way because most likley you do not think about implications of your words. I
[/quote]
Telling me what I do and don’t understand, what I mean to imply, and what I most likely do and don’t think about?
Impressive.
Well, at least this time you didn’t call me a bigot.
PS: If you’re going to pontificate on it, you might want to learn how to spell it.
[/quote]
Obviously I can only understand what is there. You seem to think something else was implied by your comment. What was your intention then?
Your intent now seems to be to dismiss what you wrote and what it implied which is great because the effect of your words were to be dismissive of others experience.
*Racism. Since this spelling error is how you are also dismissing my points. You really like to engage people in conversations that involve no actual communication it seems. So go ahead and dismiss this post as well.