White Privilege - I'm So Sorry :(

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think it is a bunch of white guys claiming racism [/quote]

Not to me, no.

I don’t give two shits if someone wants to judge me based on my skin color, nor if their ASSumptions lead them to believe a bunch of bullshit.

What it means to me is collective v individual responsibility. We need to stop blaming and/or justifying society for the actions of individuals. If an individual is an asshoel, treat them as such, but don’t project their problems onto people like them based on an arbitrary factor, whether it be skin color, sex, religious affiliation, class status or what have you.

That is the central problem with collectivist societies and why they fail. It doesn’t matter how you slice the pie, humans are individuals, all individual cogs in the machine that make up society. Society doesn’t make the individual, the individual makes society. [/quote]

I think t is easier to dismiss the consequenses of racism if you are in a race that few effects
[/quote]

I grew up in Baltimore city near Greenmount and 33rd. I was the only white boy on my block. You think I didn’t experience racism? I got chased home from school by black kids at least once a week because I was white. Got in COUNTLESS streetfights from second grade on up because I was white. When I was fourteen, I got beaten by a gang of 15 black kids who broke my neck and beat me so bad my mother didn’t recognize me because I was white. Then I went to prison where the black population was 95% black. Again, do you think I didn’t experience racism? Again, got into a shit ton of fights and got stabbed five times BECAUSE I WAS WHITE.

How many black men to you personally know that have experienced the racial violence that I have? Has anyone EVER heard me claim to be a “victim” of anyone? Have I ever generalized a whole race of people for the actions of a relative few? NOPE. People need to shut the fuck up and take responsibility for THEIR OWN actions and position in life instead of blaming others for their own fears, lack of motivation/action and failure to reach their potential. It is NO ONE’S fault but their own. But blame is easy. Blame is safe. Blame let’s you get a free pass cuz “it’s not MY fault I didn’t succeed”. It’s a coward’s position for people with weak minds and excuses for everything.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Then I went to prison where the black population was 95% black. [/quote]

DAFUQ were the other 5%?

I’m just kidding with you of course. I certain respect where you came from and have been able to achieve.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think it is a bunch of white guys claiming racism [/quote]

Not to me, no.

I don’t give two shits if someone wants to judge me based on my skin color, nor if their ASSumptions lead them to believe a bunch of bullshit.

What it means to me is collective v individual responsibility. We need to stop blaming and/or justifying society for the actions of individuals. If an individual is an asshoel, treat them as such, but don’t project their problems onto people like them based on an arbitrary factor, whether it be skin color, sex, religious affiliation, class status or what have you.

That is the central problem with collectivist societies and why they fail. It doesn’t matter how you slice the pie, humans are individuals, all individual cogs in the machine that make up society. Society doesn’t make the individual, the individual makes society. [/quote]

I think t is easier to dismiss the consequenses of racism if you are in a race that few effects
[/quote]

I grew up in Baltimore city near Greenmount and 33rd. I was the only white boy on my block. You think I didn’t experience racism? I got chased home from school by black kids at least once a week because I was white. Got in COUNTLESS streetfights from second grade on up because I was white. When I was fourteen, I got beaten by a gang of 15 black kids who broke my neck and beat me so bad my mother didn’t recognize me because I was white. Then I went to prison where the black population was 95% black. Again, do you think I didn’t experience racism? Again, got into a shit ton of fights and got stabbed five times BECAUSE I WAS WHITE.

How many black men to you personally know that have experienced the racial violence that I have? Has anyone EVER heard me claim to be a “victim” of anyone? Have I ever generalized a whole race of people for the actions of a relative few? NOPE. People need to shut the fuck up and take responsibility for THEIR OWN actions and position in life instead of blaming others for their own fears, lack of motivation/action and failure to reach their potential. It is NO ONE’S fault but their own. But blame is easy. Blame is safe. Blame let’s you get a free pass cuz “it’s not MY fault I didn’t succeed”. It’s a coward’s position for people with weak minds and excuses for everything.[/quote]

absolutely , you experienced racism . From Kindergarten to 3rd grade i went to an all black school . I learned to fight. I know both sides have racists . The difference is the white side has all the money , all the connections , all the power . Look at Congress, most police Departments , most judges , most people in position to hire and on and on

I am not trying to minimize your experience but if you went back a generation or 2 many black men had violent encounters

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Then I went to prison where the black population was 95% black. [/quote]

DAFUQ were the other 5%?

I’m just kidding with you of course. I certain respect where you came from and have been able to achieve. [/quote]

LOL - caught me before I could edit it! Thanks. I learned from an early age what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. A far more productive mindset than, “I’m a victim and it’s not my fault I can’t achieve anything”.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think it is a bunch of white guys claiming racism [/quote]

Not to me, no.

I don’t give two shits if someone wants to judge me based on my skin color, nor if their ASSumptions lead them to believe a bunch of bullshit.

What it means to me is collective v individual responsibility. We need to stop blaming and/or justifying society for the actions of individuals. If an individual is an asshoel, treat them as such, but don’t project their problems onto people like them based on an arbitrary factor, whether it be skin color, sex, religious affiliation, class status or what have you.

That is the central problem with collectivist societies and why they fail. It doesn’t matter how you slice the pie, humans are individuals, all individual cogs in the machine that make up society. Society doesn’t make the individual, the individual makes society. [/quote]

I think t is easier to dismiss the consequenses of racism if you are in a race that few effects
[/quote]

I grew up in Baltimore city near Greenmount and 33rd. I was the only white boy on my block. You think I didn’t experience racism? I got chased home from school by black kids at least once a week because I was white. Got in COUNTLESS streetfights from second grade on up because I was white. When I was fourteen, I got beaten by a gang of 15 black kids who broke my neck and beat me so bad my mother didn’t recognize me because I was white. Then I went to prison where the black population was 95% black. Again, do you think I didn’t experience racism? Again, got into a shit ton of fights and got stabbed five times BECAUSE I WAS WHITE.

How many black men to you personally know that have experienced the racial violence that I have? Has anyone EVER heard me claim to be a “victim” of anyone? Have I ever generalized a whole race of people for the actions of a relative few? NOPE. People need to shut the fuck up and take responsibility for THEIR OWN actions and position in life instead of blaming others for their own fears, lack of motivation/action and failure to reach their potential. It is NO ONE’S fault but their own. But blame is easy. Blame is safe. Blame let’s you get a free pass cuz “it’s not MY fault I didn’t succeed”. It’s a coward’s position for people with weak minds and excuses for everything.[/quote]

absolutely , you experienced racism . From Kindergarten to 3rd grade i went to an all black school . I learned to fight. I know both sides have racists . The difference is the white side has all the money , all the connections , all the power . Look at Congress, most police Departments , most judges , most people in position to hire and on and on

I am not trying to minimize your experience but if you went back a generation or 2 many black men had violent encounters

[/quote]

But NONE of those white muther fuckers who have all the money, connections and power ever did SHIT to help me or mine… When I got out of prison, there was no out reach program for WHITE felons. There wasn’t any scholarships or trusts or grants. In fact, when I applied to the electrical apprenticeship, I had to wait three years to get in, while the minorities got in on their FIRST try… I had NO “help” in the way of programs or support groups or even concerned (feeling guilty for no reason) liberals such as yourself - I was the wrong color…

Keep in mind, I wasn’t educated. I didn’t finish HS. 20 years ago I was an ignorant street thug. Now I was street smart. I could smell opportunities and spot angles a mile away. My cell buddy taught me how to play chess and I learned to think a step or two ahead. I got a job in library and read a few books that opened my mind a bit. But I didn’t have any HELP. Being white didn’t do a damned thing for me. Those in power don’t affect me personally. When I lived in DC, the majority of the representatives are black. I didn’t give a shit, it didn’t affect me.

Your position that being white holds some innate advantage is just plain wrong. In fact, in this victim mentality society that we live in today, I would consider being a white man a fucking liability.

And regarding your last statement about black men A GENERATION OR TWO AGO experienced violence. That’s right. A GENERATION OR TWO AGO. Not today. But they are sure acting as if it happened yesterday and that it affects them. Black on Black violence is what affects young black men these days, not white on black.

So why do I need to feel guilty about what happened before I was born? Why should a black person get accepted right into an apprenticeship while I have to wait three years even though I got a perfect score on the aptitude test? I didn’t come from money, and MY background was far more “disadvantaged” than theirs was. I experienced more racial violence than THEY did. How is THAT fair?

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

So why do I need to feel guilty about what happened before I was born? [/quote]

And further more, why should you be held responsible or have to alter your life in anyway for the wrong people who aren’t you did?

Why should you be held to some fabricated standard for the actions of others, simply because you share a common physical characteristic?

White Privilege is just some B.S. that a liberal sociology professor came up with to explain the failed policies that have stuck SOME minorities on the Economic Plantation.

Q: Indian-Americans… do you think they have a disadvantage because they are non-white? Or course not. Or Asians for that matter.

There IS economic privilege. I have seen many “Poor White Trash” get treated like garbage. Is almost socially acceptable to bash them w/o consequence. They have it worse, because like AC mentioned, there are not many specific programs for them to lift them out of a bad situation. And they are EXPECTED to succeed because they are white!

It’s about how to carry and project yourself. If you look like a thug, you will get treated like a thug. And this is regardless of race or ethnicity.

This happened to me recently: I was a rough part of town late at night. I saw two men, messing with a late model Lexus. One was trying to manipulate the window or door on the vehicle. They flagged me down. Both me appeared in their 20s and were black. I didn’t feel fearful or suspicious AT ALL! Why, they were dressed in sportcoats, slacks and had on polished shoes. They spoke like they were college-educated professionals. They explained they locked their keys, and cell phone inside their car and they were nervous they were parked on a side street. All they wanted is for me to call Pop-A-Lock for them. I did not view them according to their race. The way they interacted with me and they way they presented themselves made me no reason to be concerned.

Sure racism does exist. And I feel certain minorities have it worse then others. But excuses like White Privilege just exacerbate the tension and friction between us and it’s an excuse for some to underachieve and claim they are “victims” instead of taking some personal responsibility for their lot in life.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

It goes beyond exoticism in that getting things like double eyelid surgery and bleaching hair is popular in places like Japan and Korea.

[/quote]

Maybe they’re transracial or something. You know, “trapped in the wrong body.” It’s scientific fact. Some people are “assigned” the wrong race. Assigned by whom I’m not sure but it’s fact nonetheless. What I find interesting is, if all these people were “assigned” the wrong bodies then what happened to the bodies they were supposed to get?[/quote]

Your “point” aside; don’t take his quote too seriously.

He doesn’t know nearly as much about Japan as he thinks he does.

<here we go, I’m sure>[/quote]

Yep, sure as hell here we go. So you would assume to know how much I know about places like Japan and Korea? How do you know what I know? Seems rather pompous to say one doesn’t know much without providing any evidence. I lived in Okinawa for several years and toured all over the Pacific. If not only for living there and having first hand experience, I also took courses in college about various east Asian cultures, specifically anthropological studies of indigeneity, war, and race politics. Did you know that?

So, you are saying that white privilege doesn’t exist in various parts of Asia, or that there are a lot of Asians who idealize many things western from clothing style, to facial features, to blue eyes moreso than features of other races? I mean you can answer yes or no, or go into detail, please do since you know so much because the subject is interesting to me.

What of Korea and who influences K pop, and how K pop influences China? Shit rolls downhill, Gangam style, or am I completely wrong about this? Can you clear it up? Since you clearly think I’m wrong why don’t you offer an alternative explanation?

How do you explain this?

If western style has a major impact on how beauty is defined in mainstream Asia. There are influences from things like huge eyed characters in Anime. But, is it a wonder that so many hero anime characters have blue eyes and blonde hair for example? If you grew up watching dragonball you see what happens when someone goes super sayan. If you grew up later in life there’s Naruto. There are many more facets and examples I can bring up to point out how the westerner, western style, and the idea of westernizing has shaped Japan and Korea in interesting ways.

I think on top of pressure for Asians women to look more western, there’s a general emasculation of Asian men because the standard they are compared to is the sophisticated well dressed westerner. If the western man is the ideal for women because of the way beauty is influenced by the west, then you see why there are examples, such as this video which are sort of lashing out at Asian men for having double standards about beauty and plastic surgery. You also know, some of you fist hand how many Asian women are extremely available to most sorts of westerners, if she thinks you have money, or she thinks you will be liberal with the way you treat her compared to how men of her culture/race treat her. Domestic violence in places like Korea is really strange, women get their asses beat the fuck down behind closed doors and people don’t talk about it…

Another, more deep rooted and interesting aspect of general emasculation is the influence of wars. But that deserves it’s own thread.

In the U.S. there’s a thing about Asian women dating and marrying whites, which is cultural. It’s basically okay or good to marry of your own specific Asian ethnicity, or to a white guy for many Asians living in the states. It’s not only influenced by family, but also trend within the U.S. It certainly doesn’t go for every Asian family, but there is a lot of pressure to date within the race or white. Again, this is an example of white privilege.

I’m not saying anyone intentionally perpetuates it… I get that you don’t will it to happen, but it exists.

Let me be clear about my position. I don’t think I can be convinced it doesn’t exist, I simply know it exists.

But having an advantage based on something you’re born with is a pretty common thing. All things being equal, genetics play a huge role in aspects of bodybuilding and powerlifting. A bodybuilder may have sweet aesthetics and a small waist, while the powerlifter might have a supercharged nervous system and muscle insertions which give leverage advantages over his competitors. No need to apologize, but we recognize it, we recognize things like genetics as something that can give a guy an advantage or make his ceiling a bit higher than the average guy.

Same goes for race and western society, societies that idealize those particular races and phenotypes that western society idealizes will have those advantages in spades.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

It goes beyond exoticism in that getting things like double eyelid surgery and bleaching hair is popular in places like Japan and Korea.

[/quote]

Maybe they’re transracial or something. You know, “trapped in the wrong body.” It’s scientific fact. Some people are “assigned” the wrong race. Assigned by whom I’m not sure but it’s fact nonetheless. What I find interesting is, if all these people were “assigned” the wrong bodies then what happened to the bodies they were supposed to get?[/quote]

Your “point” aside; don’t take his quote too seriously.

He doesn’t know nearly as much about Japan as he thinks he does.

<here we go, I’m sure>[/quote]

Yep, sure as hell here we go. So you would assume to know how much I know about places like Japan and Korea? How do you know what I know? Seems rather pompous to say one doesn’t know much without providing any evidence. I lived in Okinawa for several years and toured all over the Pacific. If not only for living there and having first hand experience, I also took courses in college about various east Asian cultures, specifically anthropological studies of indigeneity, war, and race politics. Did you know that?

[/quote]
I said nothing about Korea, and I know that your knowledge of Japan is limited because of the content of your previous posts.

I’m curious; how many years is “several,” and how fluent is your Japanese?[/quote]

Nonsense. Your initial jab against my knowledge about Japan had nothing to do with the above post, it’s temporally impossible unless you’re psychic. So, is that why you claim know that I know less than I think I do about Japan or Asia, because you’re psychic?

Why be deceptive or play games with my credibility? Lets not play this stupid game.

Why don’t you offer an explanation instead of trying to cut me down? I’ll give you the information you are looking for to cut me down, just to see what you do with it… Besides…

If anyone can explain it better it would probably be you. I’m not claiming to know more as you are immersed in Mainland culture. I lived in Oki for a mere three and a half years and never picked up the language. But, I learned a lot about Mainland Japanese through Okinawan people, and the attitudes towards them by Mainland Japanese first hand. It stuck with me and I ended up studying it here in the states.

[quote]Severiano wrote:

Why don’t you offer an explanation instead of trying to cut me down? [/quote]

I may be mistaken but I think chushin’s point is that, contrary to westerners being idealised and a privileged class, many Japanese are very much what we would call “racist” and hostile to foreigners.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

Why don’t you offer an explanation instead of trying to cut me down? [/quote]

I may be mistaken but I think chushin’s point is that, contrary to westerners being idealised and a privileged class, many Japanese are very much what we would call “racist” and hostile to foreigners.[/quote]

There is a dichotomy actually.

The Japanese are quite racist and traditional. There are Japanese who are very traditional and hold a really deep grudge against all westerners due to the war, even ideals about themselves being superior and homogenous, they are kinda like the Japanese version of red necks… Anything not Japanese sucks…

That idea of homogeneity is pretty rooted in Japanese culture, it causes racism towards Ryukuans and Ainu which are indigenous people of Japans Hokkaido and Okinawan regions. Okinawans having Chinese ancestry throws a wrench in the concept of homogeneity, and there are stereotypes of Ainu being hairy tribal people. The shits complicated.

What’s weird is in General the Japanese are more tolerant of whites than they are of other Asians or other Asian Mixes same goes for most Asian cultures. I guess we could call that yet another example of white privilege… I mean… That’s a privilege isn’t it?

I know a man who is half Japanese, half Chinese. He was schooled in China because the family thought it would be too rough for him in Japan, and his grandfather on his Japanese side wouldn’t even acknowledge him. He basically got his ass kicked and was bullied all the time in China for being half Japanese.

Being half white, would be more neutral in Japan than being half Chinese. Which is kinda weird considering the way things went down in WW2… But certainly being any sort of mixed race in Japan would be rough. The more you stick out, the worse it must be.

I think it runs deeper than just the war. It’s a cultural thing that was exacerbated by the Sakoku period.

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

Why don’t you offer an explanation instead of trying to cut me down? [/quote]

I may be mistaken but I think chushin’s point is that, contrary to westerners being idealised and a privileged class, many Japanese are very much what we would call “racist” and hostile to foreigners.[/quote]

There is a dichotomy actually.

The Japanese are quite racist and traditional. There are Japanese who are very traditional and hold a really deep grudge against all westerners due to the war, even ideals about themselves being superior and homogenous. That idea of homogeneity is pretty rooted in Japanese culture, it causes racism towards Ryukuans and Ainu which are indigenous people of Japans Hokkaido and Okinawan regions. Okinawans having Chinese ancestry throws a wrench in the concept of homogeneity, and there are stereotypes of Ainu being hairy tribal people. The shits complicated.

What’s weird is in General the Japanese are more tolerant of whites than they are of other Asians, same goes for most Asian cultures. I guess we could call that yet another example of white privilege… I mean… That’s a privilege isn’t it? [/quote]

The Japanese are some of the most racist people on the planet. While I have never lived in Japan, I have had extensive interactions with many Japanese people for a very long time. Attributing “white privilege” to them tolerating white people more than other people is fucking hilarious! They’re RACIST on a level that most people can’t comprehend (in my experience)… Your argument is ridiculous.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

Why don’t you offer an explanation instead of trying to cut me down? [/quote]

I may be mistaken but I think chushin’s point is that, contrary to westerners being idealised and a privileged class, many Japanese are very much what we would call “racist” and hostile to foreigners.[/quote]

There is a dichotomy actually.

The Japanese are quite racist and traditional. There are Japanese who are very traditional and hold a really deep grudge against all westerners due to the war, even ideals about themselves being superior and homogenous. That idea of homogeneity is pretty rooted in Japanese culture, it causes racism towards Ryukuans and Ainu which are indigenous people of Japans Hokkaido and Okinawan regions. Okinawans having Chinese ancestry throws a wrench in the concept of homogeneity, and there are stereotypes of Ainu being hairy tribal people. The shits complicated.

What’s weird is in General the Japanese are more tolerant of whites than they are of other Asians, same goes for most Asian cultures. I guess we could call that yet another example of white privilege… I mean… That’s a privilege isn’t it? [/quote]

The Japanese are some of the most racist people on the planet. While I have never lived in Japan, I have had extensive interactions with many Japanese people for a very long time. Attributing “white privilege” to them tolerating white people more than other people is fucking hilarious! They’re RACIST on a level that most people can’t comprehend (in my experience)… Your argument is ridiculous.[/quote]

Yeah. I know they are racist.

I’m saying that they are more tolerant of whites than other Asians.

Being white might be a bit more neutral than it coming out that you are half Chinese, or even half black.

It’s not just that you experience racism, it’s the different degrees of racism that are out there. I know the data I ran across in Okinawa pointed to more half black kids being given up for adoption than whites, quite a few bases there but I admit I didn’t come across mainland Japan’s stats to compare. It’s not something I’m studying at the moment.

I went scuba diving early a few times and came out the ocean to be greeted by just shitloads of people staring at me. I get pretty dark when I tan, and even with a half wetsuit on I would get stared down by like I was an alien, my diving partner was a white dude, he would get looked at, I would get stared at… Maybe it’s simply because I stuck out more than him? I guess you had to be there to feel it.

I have longish blond hair and blue eyes and was an item of curiosity, to varying degrees, in most of the Asian countries I visited. This was least true of Japan (though still somewhat true, outside of cities; in cities, the stares were less amused and more dead-eyed/jaded).

China, by contrast, was crazy. People came up to me and touched my head. Kids touched my leg hair. There were lots of pictures taken.