If you’re seriously worried about defending yourself, why not just get a knife/gun? I thought the aim of self-defense was actually AVOIDING a fight. Few people I know like getting stabbed or shot.
But if you just like fighting, start learning a martial art or combat sport.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Most people who reply to these posts have never actually been in a street fight. So it’s all theory talk. Do not take the advice of anyone on this board unless you know, for a fact, that the person giving the advice has been in at least ten street fights.
Go watch a few streetfights on YouTube or some similar site. You’ll see that most fights involve people wildly flailing their arms, and then they both fall to the ground. Even people who regularly fight don’t have “skill” per se. Mostly, they’ll charge at you like a bull, throwing violent (and powerful) punches.
So…
Pick an art that will help you control one aspect of the fight.
Ask yourself a few questions when watching fights: Will some super-duper-spinning-high kick really work in the street-fighting environment? Is it really possible to use Steven-Seagal-type moves on someone charging at you so quickly?
My own view (and since you don’t know me, my opinion is valueless) is that you should take either boxing or BJJ. Boxing teaches you how to land a controlled punch, how to block a punch, and how to take a punch. KISS applies to fighting, too. Don’t try anything fancy on the street.
BJJ teaches you how to control the ground. And, trust me (no, don’t!), if you ever get into a fight, it will end up on the ground.[/quote]
100% correct. Learn to box and wrestle. Most street fights end up on the ground fast. Many times it is on the ground before the first solid strike.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
I wasn’t being arrogant. I simply said that, based on my reading of your posts, you have never been in a real fightThat’s not arrogant. Why did I conclude that?
You wrote: “Personally, I’m not that worried if a guy grabs my arms, because I am comfortable using knees. If I were a boxer, and only knew how to use my hands for punching, I would be worried.”
Okay, I’ve been in a lot of fights - though none in over 5 years, thankfully. No one ever “grabbed my arms.” I have seen a lot of fights. I have never seen anyone have him arms grabbed. I have no idea why anyone would be worried about having his “arms grabbed” in a fight. It’s perplexing.
Here’s an experiment: Try to grab the arms of one of your boxer’s friends. It aint’ gonna happen. I know that in the movies, Patrick Swayze or whomever can “catch” his attacher’s punches. But that doesn’t happen in a real fight.
Given that I don’t think you’ve ever been in a real fight, I can’t value your opinion on what art works in a fight. The only way to really know is to experience a fight. It’s like taking sex advice from a virgin.
Now, in every fight, I would try to do one of the following: a kick to the knee cap, a kick to the outer thigh, and a couple of powerful punches. IOW, some thai-boxing-like methods.
If the poster could take boxing, thai boxing, and BJJ, I’d say, “Great.” The problem is he doesn’t want to be an MMA fighter or martial artist. He simply wants to be able to handle himself if shit goes down.
I think boxing is the best since it teaches a person how to throw a well-aimed and powerful punch. In addition, it teaches someone how to take a punch. Even if you’re really good, you’re likely to get punched while in a fight. So boxing, moreso than thai boxing, teaches someone how to take a punch.
[/quote]
Just to jump in here about the grabbing point. Here in Japan I have seen a few fights where people have been grabbed and slammed into the ground with pretty horrible results. Considering that Judo was widespread in many Japanese highschools(required) and still is an elective in many highschools and colleges it does make sense that the chances of running into somebody with judo background in a streetfight in Japan are rather high. Now this may be just a cultural difference, still being grabbed does happen in Japan. It happens very quickly also. Faster than I imagined also, and easier than I had thought. I have seen guys trying to box it out then be slammed into the pavement in a blink of an eye. The fight is over at that point. So it does happen.
Boxing.
I’ve been a bouncer and been in plenty of dust ups. Boxers hands down, in my experience, usually prevail. On any bouncing crew, a guy who is a fighter is usally the go to guy when the shit hits the fan. Most guys will fall to one good punch, landed first.
Learn to box and learn when to punch and you’ll be well prepared.
And yes a pistol will considerably even the odds against multiple assailants. The SIG is a good choice.
[quote]alownage wrote:
If you’re seriously worried about defending yourself, why not just get a knife/gun? I thought the aim of self-defense was actually AVOIDING a fight. Few people I know like getting stabbed or shot.
But if you just like fighting, start learning a martial art or combat sport.[/quote]
Not to be an ass, but sometimes this type of advice can be more detrimental to the “defender” than the assailant. A lot of untrained people get too caught up in the weapon they carry to actually use it effectively, and wind up getting hurt trying to use it.
Furthermore, in a number of states in the U.S., carrying a weapon can be construed as premeditated whatever. It sucks, but it’s true. Not trying to knock your advice, just adding some additional considerations.
-B
I’ve done MA for nearly 18 years now, but my answer has to do with something I learned in about 3 seconds…
a good friend (former Delta/Black Ops member) taught it to me…he came at me, and the force of his charge and the intent of his actions told me that if he was serious, I would get a few blows in, but ultimately I was literally dead.
Good thing he was teaching me a lesson, instead of really coming at me.
Martial arts is cool, but only that killer instinct will win. Who wants it more, you or he/them? How far will you go to survive? How much damage will you take to achieve your goal?
Therefore, if you want to REALLY protect yourself, go to Jungle Warfare school in the military, or Hand to Hand Combat Instructor, or elite (Delta, Marine Recon, SEAL, etc).
Failing that, get some mace or a gun.
All else is fluff and ego.
[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
I’ve done MA for nearly 18 years now, but my answer has to do with something I learned in about 3 seconds…
a good friend (former Delta/Black Ops member) taught it to me…he came at me, and the force of his charge and the intent of his actions told me that if he was serious, I would get a few blows in, but ultimately I was literally dead.
Good thing he was teaching me a lesson, instead of really coming at me.
Martial arts is cool, but only that killer instinct will win. Who wants it more, you or he/them? How far will you go to survive? How much damage will you take to achieve your goal?
Therefore, if you want to REALLY protect yourself, go to Jungle Warfare school in the military, or Hand to Hand Combat Instructor, or elite (Delta, Marine Recon, SEAL, etc).
Failing that, get some mace or a gun.
All else is fluff and ego.[/quote]
That is one of the more ridiculous posts on this thread. I’ve seen guys with that intent before, they’re the ones who gas early and get beaten down by the calmer dude who actually knows how to fight.
Kyokushin and BJJ are the arts i turned too, after realising that taekwondo was pretty much a waste of time as an art, i did as much as i could with the olympic stuff but i found it very dull. I now consider TKD as martial sport. I just make sure I dont tell my athletes in the sport that what they do amounts to kick tag.
I nearly quit after my first month of Kyokushin, bare knuckle punching and kicking against other people leads to a variety of brightly coloured bruises.
For Fun: Capoeira
For Fighting: Krav Maga or Good ol’ Pugilism (boxing)… If you can, Krav Maga. Learn how to clinch and knee/elbow and you’ll fuck up most people you encounter with QUICKNESS.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
I’ve done MA for nearly 18 years now, but my answer has to do with something I learned in about 3 seconds…
a good friend (former Delta/Black Ops member) taught it to me…he came at me, and the force of his charge and the intent of his actions told me that if he was serious, I would get a few blows in, but ultimately I was literally dead.
Good thing he was teaching me a lesson, instead of really coming at me.
Martial arts is cool, but only that killer instinct will win. Who wants it more, you or he/them? How far will you go to survive? How much damage will you take to achieve your goal?
Therefore, if you want to REALLY protect yourself, go to Jungle Warfare school in the military, or Hand to Hand Combat Instructor, or elite (Delta, Marine Recon, SEAL, etc).
Failing that, get some mace or a gun.
All else is fluff and ego.
That is one of the more ridiculous posts on this thread. I’ve seen guys with that intent before, they’re the ones who gas early and get beaten down by the calmer dude who actually knows how to fight. [/quote]
Sounds to me like you are speaking of MMA or octagon fighting, and not a real fight.
A real fight takes seconds to be over (usually under 10 seconds…20 at MOST).
And, I did not say to attack mindlessly, did I?
Have you ever been in a street fight when your ass was on the line? I have…but as CalLaw said before…you don’t have to believe me.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
I’ve done MA for nearly 18 years now, but my answer has to do with something I learned in about 3 seconds…
a good friend (former Delta/Black Ops member) taught it to me…he came at me, and the force of his charge and the intent of his actions told me that if he was serious, I would get a few blows in, but ultimately I was literally dead.
Good thing he was teaching me a lesson, instead of really coming at me.
Martial arts is cool, but only that killer instinct will win. Who wants it more, you or he/them? How far will you go to survive? How much damage will you take to achieve your goal?
Therefore, if you want to REALLY protect yourself, go to Jungle Warfare school in the military, or Hand to Hand Combat Instructor, or elite (Delta, Marine Recon, SEAL, etc).
Failing that, get some mace or a gun.
All else is fluff and ego.
That is one of the more ridiculous posts on this thread. I’ve seen guys with that intent before, they’re the ones who gas early and get beaten down by the calmer dude who actually knows how to fight. [/quote]
You know I was thinking the same thing as I was reading that post, glad you put it into words.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
“Common sense” strikes again! Actually…
I would put money on a top lightweight boxer who was fighting a typical street fighter. Sure, assuming boxing skill is equal, the bigger guy will usually win the boxing match. But the odds that a person is going to encounter a trained boxer in a run-of-the-mill street fight are slim.
zecarlo wrote:
Also, use common sense. Do you really think a person can KO someone who is much bigger than they are? There is a reason why boxing has weight classes.
[/quote]
And the odds that someone is going to become as skilled as a pro boxer if they do some boxing training is even more slim. You have no point.
So this is the second person who calls what I say basically absurd (if not blatantly stupid).
Instead of posting something that does not incite discussion, why not explain why you say so?
It would be helpful, I think.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
slimjim wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
I’ve done MA for nearly 18 years now, but my answer has to do with something I learned in about 3 seconds…
a good friend (former Delta/Black Ops member) taught it to me…he came at me, and the force of his charge and the intent of his actions told me that if he was serious, I would get a few blows in, but ultimately I was literally dead.
Good thing he was teaching me a lesson, instead of really coming at me.
Martial arts is cool, but only that killer instinct will win. Who wants it more, you or he/them? How far will you go to survive? How much damage will you take to achieve your goal?
Therefore, if you want to REALLY protect yourself, go to Jungle Warfare school in the military, or Hand to Hand Combat Instructor, or elite (Delta, Marine Recon, SEAL, etc).
Failing that, get some mace or a gun.
All else is fluff and ego.
That is one of the more ridiculous posts on this thread. I’ve seen guys with that intent before, they’re the ones who gas early and get beaten down by the calmer dude who actually knows how to fight.
You know I was thinking the same thing as I was reading that post, glad you put it into words.
[/quote]
Ok “alwayslearning” you’ve seen now lots of debates over which style etc. Here’s what’s missing, although californialaw and some others got close.
You need to pay attention to your surrondings. Period.
I assume you are young(er), and go out w/ your mates to the pub a lot, especially after a football practice/game. Pay attention to who is around you. If you decide to get drunk and be an ass to people because you are w/ your friends fine, but realize who those people are with.
Sit with your back to the wall as often as possible. Know your surroundings. If you are confronted, run like hell. You should be in good shape from football.
“Fighting” is not about “winning”. Your life is not a sport. Get the fuck away from the situation. The physical/legal ramifications suck big time.
If you’re serious about learning to defend yourself, then learn to run and not be embarrassed about it. Trust me, that takes practice (especially when your friends find out).
I could write a book on this subject, but I will leave it at this and see if any of our replies has helped you.
[quote]TYR wrote:
Ok “alwayslearning” you’ve seen now lots of debates over which style etc. Here’s what’s missing, although californialaw and some others got close.
You need to pay attention to your surrondings. Period.
I assume you are young(er), and go out w/ your mates to the pub a lot, especially after a football practice/game. Pay attention to who is around you. If you decide to get drunk and be an ass to people because you are w/ your friends fine, but realize who those people are with.
Sit with your back to the wall as often as possible. Know your surroundings. If you are confronted, run like hell. You should be in good shape from football.
[/quote]
Where on earth do you live? Every time you go to a bar you sit with your back against the wall, watch everyone like a hawk, and are prepared to run like hell at the first confrontation? If you’re going to be that paranoid, why go to bars at all?
For serious man, you need to lighten up on the cocaine. The world is not out to get you.
I agree that the best thing to do is talk your way out of any fight.
However, it’s always good to know how to defend yourself in case someone with nothing to lose decides to jump out from behind a dumpster and try to take your head off.
If you’re interested in defending yourself I would recommend buying a heavy bag and some instructional dvd’s and studying/practicing at home before you join a school. If you’re a football player, I would start with judo.
Good instructionals: Rob Kaman for muay thai, Karo Parisyan’s Judo for mixed martial arts, Extreme Boxing by Mark Hatmaker and Bas Rutten’s Lethal Street Fighting.
[quote]Jack_Dempsey wrote:
I agree that the best thing to do is talk your way out of any fight.
However, it’s always good to know how to defend yourself in case someone with nothing to lose decides to jump out from behind a dumpster and try to take your head off.
If you’re interested in defending yourself I would recommend buying a heavy bag and some instructional dvd’s and studying/practicing at home before you join a school. If you’re a football player, I would start with judo.
Good instructionals: Rob Kaman for muay thai, Karo Parisyan’s Judo for mixed martial arts, Extreme Boxing by Mark Hatmaker and Bas Rutten’s Lethal Street Fighting.
[/quote]
I’m gonna say the opposite: don’t do this. You’ll most likely learn how to do the techniques wrong, and then have to relearn the techniques once you get there. You’ll also feel like an idiot for wasting all that time/money.
Honestly, most schools are not going to be pissed at you because you’re a beginner. They’ll quickly teach you the basic stuff, and you’ll learn it far faster from a teacher than from a video.
The other thing is that each teacher teaches the technique a different way, so even if you do learn the technique “correctly”, the teacher may teach it a different way.
To me, i’d say that its nice to have the confidence knowing a good martial art can give you. Plus, its fun to learn something with others. Or to have a sport. However, there are two important things to know first that martial arts may or may not teach you, and they relate alot to the discussion of streetfighting earlier in the thread.
First, learn how to diffuse the situation so there’s no fight at all. If this isn’t the issue and you’re being mugged or something, they’ll likely have a weapon and probably be willing to use it, so hope for the best that they wont and give them what they want so they’ll leave.
If you have a good opportunity to ‘stop’ them then you can take it to the next level (my second thought)–which is going to also put you in danger if you don’t get it right. Another thing that applies here is knowing where you should and shouldn’t be and when.
Second, if its inevitable that you have to have a physical confrontation with someone, then assume your life is in danger and do your best to quickly end the confrontation. Knowing how to hurt someone doesnt take much study. We all have plenty of soft tissue that can be easily damaged and that damage will usually cause enough pain to stop someone.
Just remember you can poke out eyes, rip off lips and ears, and crush a throat or testicle with little pressure. Not to mention punch/stab someone with a fistful of keys. All of these things should cause enough of a distraction to give you time to haul ass before they can use a weapon, their friends show up with weapons, or the cops show up. Or so you can hope…I’ve punched a few throats, poked a few eyes, slapped a few ears, and generally thrown people against a wall or the ground as hard as I could to end a few bar and street fights and haul ass. I’ve taken a few painful shots too. Just what I got from growing up with fight happy idiot friends i guess. Luckily no one was hurt too badly and I’m not in jail.
Outside of that kind of stuff, i’d say look for a martial art that teaches you to hit hard, defend, and control. Something you have fun learning and something that gives you alot of serious sparring practice so you can get used to hitting and taking a hit with power. Its that first hit that does alot of people in, as it can be a shock. But if you get used to it…
[edit] I just wanted to add that most fights i’ve seen or been in were at, outside or in a party, a bar, an after hours restaurant, or in traffic. Not counting mugger-types (thats only happened to me once). But with all those fights, it might’ve started between two people, but the first thing that happens is someone gets pushed or knocked down (the tackle is a major tactic) and all the friends start using them as a soccer ball. If there are lots of friends invovled on both sides, it turns into more of a brawl-and-run as the cops show. So, if its ever you against many, run hard and fast. Screw honor, it’s about survival. And you should probably zig-zag because crowds love to throw things. 
“You’ll most likely learn how to do the techniques wrong, and then have to relearn the techniques once you get there.”
Yeah, because the average instructor at the local strip mall McDojo is a much better instructor than Rob Kaman and Karo Parisyan…
Evan Tanner went from training himself with instructionals straight into the UFC.
And this guy wants to protect himself on the streets, not win an olympic judo gold.
Learn the basics and get a feel for the art before jumping into a school that is going to try to pressure you into a long membership.
[quote]Jack_Dempsey wrote:
“You’ll most likely learn how to do the techniques wrong, and then have to relearn the techniques once you get there.”
Yeah, because the average instructor at the local strip mall McDojo is a much better instructor than Rob Kaman and Karo Parisyan…
Evan Tanner went from training himself with instructionals straight into the UFC.
And this guy wants to protect himself on the streets, not win an olympic judo gold.
Learn the basics and get a feel for the art before jumping into a school that is going to try to pressure you into a long membership.[/quote]
Not everyone is Evan Tanner.
Karo is not there to correct you with the details when you are performing an armbar incorrectly.
The best thing I can suggest to you is to go to the bullshido.net forum and ask in the forums there where to train. There will probably be someone knowledgeable in your area that can suggest a good place to train and a good INSTRUCTOR to train with.