[quote]LUEshi wrote:
hahahaha LUESHI are you serious? I remember you coming on here and saying you were goin to bulk at a seriously hi bodyfat%?
Relax bubba. I’m know I’m not ready for the sauce just yet.
And yes, I’m a helluva lot leaner than that now. Got about another 10-15 lbs to drop before abs, I think.[/quote]
really? thats it? congrats man, mind you i cant speak i prob have to drop the same to see my abs but am still skinny, so dont know who is in the worst position? both!
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
John Q. Adequate wrote:
When? Well, if they are fast acting and water based, you should take them every other day. If they are fast acting and oil based, every 3-4 days is fine. But a longer acting oild based compound could be taken once a week, in most cases.
If we’re talking orals, however, it’s every day, with meals.
Stop speaking now.
Every reccomendation you made is inaccurate.
Either do some actual research or be quiet about something you aren’t qualified to give advice on. [/quote]
Sorry, I forgot to put the /just kidding bracket at the end of my post. I thought it would be obvious anyhow. As Tucker Max likes to say, if you can’t take a joke, fuck you.
[quote]John Q. Adequate wrote:
Sorry, I forgot to put the /just kidding bracket at the end of my post. I thought it would be obvious anyhow. As Tucker Max likes to say, if you can’t take a joke, fuck you.[/quote]
You’re, like, the human equivalent of a loud, nasty fart.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
yeah, i know about Curry
when i first came to this site he still posted, he had an avatar of him in a pool. when i first came to this site i thought everyone was over 200 pounds w/ abs and i thought the people who posted in BBing were actualy BBers. actually, even just 2 years ago there were a lot more.[/quote]
Wasn’t the guy with the avi of himself in a pool mad titan?
Anyway. Ronnie won his pro-card in a tested show, didn’t he? Something like that, anyway. Was around 210 or so back then and you could quite obviously see that he was pro material…
Seriously, plenty of examples (though one could just say “yeah, but I’m sure they all started juicing at age 12”).
While I’m certainly no steroid expert, a few things that occur to me…
There are a lot of people who feel that you should wait until you max out your natural genetic potential with proper training, diet etc (and I mean ‘max out’, not get bored that you aren’t gaining fast enough). Examples who woulod support the theory would include Ronnie, Kai, and probably a lot of the guys who end up really pushing the envelope.
Because they do not have the extra little assistance that AASs provide, they learn more about how their body respondds to training, and nutrion approaches (I am in no way saying that people who choose to use do not know how to train!).
On the other hand, and this isn’t a be-all-end-all example, you have some guys who start with the gear when they start training, and even though they may reach very accomplished levels of development, I have seen instances where the BBer comes off years later, and as his bodyparts shrink down a bit, they suddenly look mismatched, and as if they don’t fit together (Frank Sepe anyone?).
I can only sumise that somehow, people who fall into this category have shortchanged themselves. I know this is not always the case, as there are also guys who juice from the getgo, get a very strong and solid foundation built, and then never use again, suffering no ill effects physique wise (in regardds to size and proprtions etc).
Just some thoughts. I certainly how no issues wih anyone’s personal reasons to either use or not. I’m sure if I didn’t work with kids I’d be weighing the pros and cons myself.
S
I just don’t get the “if you take steroids too early you will be using up your potential” kinda of mentality…
I agree that you need to have solid nutrition and training fondation, but some people do the same 500mg test cycle 3 times and have gain 35-50lbs of it… “the more you do the more you need” concept isn’t really accurat, it’s more like “the bigger you are the more you need”
this thread sure has opened my eyes a little more
Bigger Stronger Faster for those who haven’t seen it.
For me I want the biggest bang for my spending dollar. When and if I decide to start on gear, I want to know it’s going to benefit me the most. I don’t want a drop of it wasted on something I could have done before hand.
Basically I want my money’s worth, and then some.
Ahem, sorry, I got distracted facepalming earlier in the thread.
I plan to take them to improve life quality and expectancy as I get older. Other than that, I am not even remotely considering any assistance, because:
A) I want to see how far I can push it with just hard work and supplements
B) Possible legal issues. Too much to lose.
[quote]Agon wrote:
I just don’t get the “if you take steroids too early you will be using up your potential” kinda of mentality…
I agree that you need to have solid nutrition and training fondation, but some people do the same 500mg test cycle 3 times and have gain 35-50lbs of it… [/quote] You make it sound like their gains were all due to the steroids. If that were how things worked, then a whole damn lot of sub-200 lb people would be huge. [quote] “the more you do the more you need” concept isn’t really accurat, it’s more like “the bigger you are the more you need”[/quote] Both concepts are correct… There are people whose training quite frankly doesn’t allow for the kind of strength gains necessary to get to a certain size (or at least the gains come much slower there due to lots of excess work, low intensity, low protein intake, whatever). They (example: Wheeler, and a lot of good it did him…) usually end up compensating by using more gear than others at the same size who actually follow a system/routine/whatever + a diet which allows them to make significant/faster strength gains even without gear (or on a significantly smaller dose, if we’re talking about the bigger guys…)
Now, both people will still need to use more gear in order to compete in the superheavies than they did back in the lightheavies or wherever. And yet one guy needs less than the other, and not just doe to genetics… But quite frankly because he actually bothered maximizing the other factors which are involved in getting big.
If you ask around on here, they will say you need 2.6 million years of experience, and you have to be at your natural maximum peak when it comes to training and physique. In my opinion, this is obscenely inaccurate (because I made it inaccurate yes, but if you change 2.6 million years to 6 years, it is still obscene).
From my experience with pro-hormones, I would say, if you understand PCT to a reasonable degree, and you know at least how to consume the stuff without overdosing (Reading the instructions on the label would suffice, because no manufacturer would realistically suggest anything that would be dangerous), then you’re good to go. Obviously you need to know how to train, and eat to make full benefits, but even if you didn’t eat correctly, or lift correctly, but followed the proper PCT and liver protection etc, there really is no harm done.
I’d say anyone who is 21 and upwards, and knows the above would be ready to use. Saying that, I have no experience with injectable steroids, but really, I can’t see it being much different if you apply the same principles about knowing how to handle a course properly.
If you feel you’re not progressing fast enough, and you’re not a pro-bodybuilder waiting for your body to get to this magical peak and for the planets to align, do it. Summer is coming up, and steroids/pro-hormones do give you a boost. If you know enough to do a safe cycle, go for it.
[quote]lloydk wrote:
If you ask around on here, they will say you need 2.6 million years of experience, and you have to be at your natural maximum peak when it comes to training and physique. In my opinion, this is obscenely inaccurate (because I made it inaccurate yes, but if you change 2.6 million years to 6 years, it is still obscene).
From my experience with pro-hormones, I would say, if you understand PCT to a reasonable degree, and you know at least how to consume the stuff without overdosing (Reading the instructions on the label would suffice, because no manufacturer would realistically suggest anything that would be dangerous), then you’re good to go. Obviously you need to know how to train, and eat to make full benefits, but even if you didn’t eat correctly, or lift correctly, but followed the proper PCT and liver protection etc, there really is no harm done.
I’d say anyone who is 21 and upwards, and knows the above would be ready to use. Saying that, I have no experience with injectable steroids, but really, I can’t see it being much different if you apply the same principles about knowing how to handle a course properly.
If you feel you’re not progressing fast enough[/quote]You could just take a look at your diet, training, rest etc and see if that ain’t the reason, could you? Won’t even be illegal… Just saying. And by the looks of so many who start using early, those above-mentioned factors are the reason for their slow gains… Then again, actually getting shit right in the gym and kitchen means work… But I suppose none here have any issues with weighing 150-185 at average height and using gear. Not the least bit embarrassing, no?[quote], and you’re not a pro-bodybuilder waiting for your body to get to this magical peak and for the planets to align, do it. Summer is coming up, and steroids/pro-hormones do give you a boost. If you know enough to do a safe cycle, go for it.[/quote]
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
And by the looks of so many who start using early, those above-mentioned factors are the reason for their slow gains… Then again, actually getting shit right in the gym and kitchen means work… But I suppose none here have any issues with weighing 150-185 at average height and using gear. Not the least bit embarrassing, no?,
[/quote]
If you actually need steroids just to break 200lbs at average height, you shouldn’t be too proud of yourself.
I would also slate someone like that as most likely to lose every ounce of it when off.
People who jump on anabolics before they ever learn how to make themselves grow to above average levels of development will doubtfully last two seconds unless they are on constantly.
These are the guys you see one month at 240lbs at 6% body fat…and then 6 months later at 185lbs with a pot belly.
Most of the people on this forum don’t even have the weight gain part down yet they are even talking about steroids?
WTF
When 85% of the people logging in have arms smaller than 15", this discussion shouldn’t even be taking place.
You don’t beat hard work or flat out genetic ability with anabolics. If you don’t have it in you at all, why pretend like you do?
If you can’t even describe the Krebs Cycle in detail or define what “negative feedback” is, why the hell are you getting ready to inject hormones into yourself?
No, teenagers should not be using steroids, not because they are “deadly”, but because none of you bastards has a medical degree or enough time in the gym to even understand your own body in terms of what instigates the most growth.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You could just take a look at your diet, training, rest etc and see if that ain’t the reason, could you? Won’t even be illegal… Just saying.
[/quote]
This point is irrelevant. I’m looking at it from a non-bodybuilder point of view. If someone has regular gym experience, but is an on/off trainer, and want to boost their progress for the summer season, then what’s the problem? The diet might be sound, the train and rest could be spot on, but so what? Maybe the gains aren’t fast enough and they want a boost?
[quote]
And by the looks of so many who start using early, those above-mentioned factors are the reason for their slow gains… Then again, actually getting shit right in the gym and kitchen means work… [/quote]
The above applies.
Well, the difference between 150 and 185 is 35. If I put 30lb of lean muscle, I’d be pretty big considering my size. But still, whether YOU find it embarrassing or not is irrelevant, because realistically speaking, people on the street don’t give a shit. They don’t give a crap about living in the gym and the kitchen, and they don’t give a toss about what you can live. So if some guy wants to add a few pounds of lean muscle at an increased pace, for his own satisfaction, what is the big deal?
Even if we granted it that you was correct in what you’ve said about it being embarrassing, a good and proper cycle of steroids/pro hormones is going to get them out of that situation quicker than good diet, good training, and essential rest will alone.
[quote]lloydk wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You could just take a look at your diet, training, rest etc and see if that ain’t the reason, could you? Won’t even be illegal… Just saying.
This point is irrelevant. I’m looking at it from a non-bodybuilder point of view. If someone has regular gym experience, but is an on/off trainer, and want to boost their progress for the summer season, then what’s the problem? The diet might be sound, the train and rest could be spot on, but so what? Maybe the gains aren’t fast enough and they want a boost?[/quote]
In a perfect world, grown men and women should be able to do whatever the hell they want to do to their bodies as long as they accept responsibility for the outcome.
However, in a world filled with ideals and people who do train hard, any jackass who trains “off/on” should be slapped for even thinking the word “steroids”.
In the world we currently live in, people do not accept responsibility for their actions and every dumber than average kid who barely broke the 18 year old line drawn in the sand can damage everything all of the way down to legislation for hormone replacement therapy every single time they fuck up.
Dumb people are holding back medical science as far as these drugs are concerned. I would hope more dumb people wouldn’t be making excuses for them.
[quote]lloydk wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You could just take a look at your diet, training, rest etc and see if that ain’t the reason, could you? Won’t even be illegal… Just saying.
This point is irrelevant. I’m looking at it from a non-bodybuilder point of view. If someone has regular gym experience, but is an on/off trainer, and want to boost their progress for the summer season, then what’s the problem? The diet might be sound, the train and rest could be spot on, but so what? Maybe the gains aren’t fast enough and they want a boost?
And by the looks of so many who start using early, those above-mentioned factors are the reason for their slow gains… Then again, actually getting shit right in the gym and kitchen means work…
The above applies.
But I suppose none here have any issues with weighing 150-185 at average height and using gear. Not the least bit embarrassing, no?
Well, the difference between 150 and 185 is 35. If I put 30lb of lean muscle, I’d be pretty big considering my size. But still, whether YOU find it embarrassing or not is irrelevant, because realistically speaking, people on the street don’t give a shit. They don’t give a crap about living in the gym and the kitchen, and they don’t give a toss about what you can live. So if some guy wants to add a few pounds of lean muscle at an increased pace, for his own satisfaction, what is the big deal?
Even if we granted it that you was correct in what you’ve said about it being embarrassing, a good and proper cycle of steroids/pro hormones is going to get them out of that situation quicker than good diet, good training, and essential rest will alone.
[/quote]
Question for you…would you do a cycle if the results lasted for the summer, and people easily recognized the results, but when you went off cycle you lost most or all the gains? Honest question, not trying to be an ass.
I don’t know shit about steroids BTW.
[quote]
No, teenagers should not be using steroids, not because they are “deadly”, but because none of you bastards has a medical degree or enough time in the gym to even understand your own body in terms of what instigates the most growth.[/quote]
Thank you! This is specifically why I haven’t touched them in my many years of dedicated lifting. I personally have nothing against AAS use, but I have zero education on there safest use, and am still gaining without them.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
lloydk wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You could just take a look at your diet, training, rest etc and see if that ain’t the reason, could you? Won’t even be illegal… Just saying.
This point is irrelevant. I’m looking at it from a non-bodybuilder point of view. If someone has regular gym experience, but is an on/off trainer, and want to boost their progress for the summer season, then what’s the problem? The diet might be sound, the train and rest could be spot on, but so what? Maybe the gains aren’t fast enough and they want a boost?
In a perfect world, grown men and women should be able to do whatever the hell they want to do to their bodies as long as they accept responsibility for the outcome.
However, in a world filled with ideals and people who do train hard, any jackass who trains “off/on” should be slapped for even thinking the word “steroids”.
In the world we currently live in, people do not accept responsibility for their actions and every dumber than average kid who barely broke the 18 year old line drawn in the sand can damage everything all of the way down to legislation for hormone replacement therapy every single time they fuck up.
Dumb people are holding back medical science as far as these drugs are concerned. I would hope more dumb people wouldn’t be making excuses for them.[/quote]
On the one hand you have every little 16 year old youtube-idiot telling people how bodybuilders (i.e. everyone over 175 lbs or so) “cheat” and “it’s all steroids” and whatnot… Then you have 160 lb people who honestly go through the whole usually illegal process of acquiring and using gear… Just so they can gain 10 lbs or something like that?
And then I won’t be able to go on HRT at age 50+ just because now everyone’s complaining about how teens are all on steroids and whatever and the government ends up banning everything more anabolic than a piece of chocolate?
Great.
Most serious trainees of average height go from 120-160 to 180-200 or so with ease in their first year of training, while still doing this and that wrong and with fairly little fat-gain… Like that would take “living in the gym/kitchen”. Give me a break…
Fucking quick-fix, “no one matters but me”-society.
“Hey, I’m Stan. I’m 17 years old.
I want 15 lbs of muscle so I can get to … 150!
Plan is to just start using a gram or more of test/whatever a week! Why not… Hey, and I’ll just do some benching and some curling in the gym, surely that’ll be enough!
In fact, screw training! Who wants to put in even a little work in order to improve him/herself? Idiots.
I’ll just buy that “ab-shaker” belt I saw on the shopping channel and spend my days on the couch with that thing set to maximum and a few syringes at hand…
The chicks will dig my hawt abz!”
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
On the one hand you have every little 16 year old youtube-idiot telling people how bodybuilders (i.e. everyone over 175 lbs or so) “cheat” and “it’s all steroids” and whatnot… Then you have 160 lb people who honestly go through the whole usually illegal process of acquiring and using gear… Just so they can gain 10 lbs or something like that?
And then I won’t be able to go on HRT at age 50+ just because now everyone’s complaining about how teens are all on steroids and whatever and the government ends up banning everything more anabolic than a piece of chocolate?
Great.
Most serious trainees of average height go from 120-160 to 180-200 or so with ease in their first year of training, while still doing this and that wrong and with fairly little fat-gain… Like that would take “living in the gym/kitchen”. Give me a break…
Fucking quick-fix, “no one matters but me”-society.
“Hey, I’m Stan. I’m 17 years old.
I want 15 lbs of muscle so I can get to … 150!
Plan is to just start using a gram or more of test/whatever a week! Why not… Hey, and I’ll just do some benching and some curling in the gym, surely that’ll be enough!
In fact, screw training! Who wants to put in even a little work in order to improve him/herself? Idiots.
I’ll just buy that “ab-shaker” belt I saw on the shopping channel and spend my days on the couch with that thing set to maximum and a few syringes at hand…
The chicks will dig my hawt abz!”
[/quote]
Exactly.
Every jackass with a keyboard seems to be working hard on youtube to convince every clueless newb that steroids are needed to even have visible biceps muscles from 2 feet away. Every single time some competitor even posts a picture on this site, that is the one thing newbs start questioning as if his 15+ years of hard work far beyond any of them have ever experienced is somehow secondary to a cycle of drugs.
Most of the people on this forum have goals so low that they simply want to look average…yet these are the same retards asking about steroids.
They contradict themselves by claiming that they are all hardgainers…yet are somehow so advanced that they need some hyperspecific training routine developed for Olympic weight lifters to help them gain 5lbs even though that alone took them over a year because they don’t know how important food is…yet these same jackasses want to know about steroids?
No, if you no one can even tell you lift weights, you should not be even discussing steroids. If you can’t even figure out how to get from 150lbs to 165 without gaining 15lbs of body fat, why the hell do you think you are ready to inject yourself with drugs?
Most of these people just literally want the easy way out…not realizing that this will be the farthest thing from it.
There is nothing easy about explaining why you only look muscular when you are on cycle but can’t even bench 250lbs when off.
Yes, most of those big guys in the mags DO have better genetics than you. They are not “all drugs” no matter how many newbs exclaim, “roidz” every time they see arms bigger than 16".