[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
at 21yrs old but only a few months of serious training i definately know i have a long way till i even contemplate usage. i have several friends who have used and done quite well in competitions throughout australasia. but was just wondering what peoples opinions were. i will be definately doing a lot of research before i ever consider it.
i got arnold being ‘13’ from his autobiography that i read a few years back. [/quote]
Knowing as much as possible about the drugs you are going to use is always the best approach. And you can absolutely never learn enough or too much about this subject. But lets face it, plenty of men use steroids with no more information than “Bro, just shoot 2cc on friday before you go out to the bar so you look jacked” and don’t suffer any serious side effects.
A very under rated or under-acknowledged aspect of cycling is the ability to manipulate your body composition while training naturally. This becomes more important post cycle because anyone can make gains while on; not everyone knows how to retain their gains.
I don’t know about you or anyone else reading but I think it takes a very long time for someone to truly find out their optimal eating habits unless the person is genetically gifted with the ability to add lots of muscle with sub-optimal eating habits.
[quote]ghostofbellstar wrote:
i think that thing about, dont play your aces early is brilliant[/quote]
i think its dumb.
i understand the message, dont use before youre going to get the most out of it. but in that article he said if you used drugs to win state or nationals youll never be able to win a pro-card. bullshit. i bet every single person who ever got their pro card was using AAS early as shit and definately every Olympia winner matter of fact i bet most of them started as teens.
i dont understand how your final potential changes regardless of what stage you use steroids at. if you can make it the pro ranks at all youll just get there faster using steroids earlier.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ghostofbellstar wrote:
i think that thing about, dont play your aces early is brilliant
i think its dumb.
i understand the message, dont use before youre going to get the most out of it. but in that article he said if you used drugs to win state or nationals youll never be able to win a pro-card. bullshit. i bet every single person who ever got their pro card was using AAS early as shit and definately every Olympia winner matter of fact i bet most of them started as teens.
i dont understand how your final potential changes regardless of what stage you use steroids at. if you can make it the pro ranks at all youll just get there faster using steroids earlier.[/quote]
wat i was trying to get at but didnt know how to say it cheers
well i could be wrong, but im sure steroids aren’t exactly a magical potion that just piles on muscle… if you get to know your body and what training/diet it responds best to (which would probably take years), then take them after that time, im sure they work really well, maybes that why u should wait… then again im probably wrong
What if you are knowledgeble about diet, training, recovery, and PCT. However, you were physically under developed (have not reached your genetic potential)
Would you still warrant the use of anabolics?
I mean, why spend 5 years attaining a goal naturally, when you can do the exact same thing in 3 with anabolics?(this is a gross over simplification but its an example). If your goal is just to look good and you are not competing in any tested federations, what’s the harm? (this is assuming you are knowledgable about the above mentioned).
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ghostofbellstar wrote:
i think that thing about, dont play your aces early is brilliant
i think its dumb.
i understand the message, dont use before youre going to get the most out of it. but in that article he said if you used drugs to win state or nationals youll never be able to win a pro-card. bullshit. i bet every single person who ever got their pro card was using AAS early as shit and definately every Olympia winner matter of fact i bet most of them started as teens.
i dont understand how your final potential changes regardless of what stage you use steroids at. if you can make it the pro ranks at all youll just get there faster using steroids earlier.[/quote]
I would have to agree with this. The “don’t play your aces early” card does not seem to work very well in the real world as most pros started using gear quite early in their career yet are the largest and most impressive beings on the planet. Although Arnold references are beaten to death, when you look at pictures of a 20-year old Arnold how many people can honestly say they will ever achieve that type of development? As long as one researches AAS beforehand and uses it safely they should go for it if their goals make sense.
To the OP: the time to start taking gear is up to you. I echo what others have said that you need to have a very firm grasp on training and nutrition, knowledge that could only come from a FEW YEARS worth of training. There are exceptions but chances are you are not one of them. No matter how much you learn reading journals and articles you will not gain enough information about your own body.
When? Well, if they are fast acting and water based, you should take them every other day. If they are fast acting and oil based, every 3-4 days is fine. But a longer acting oild based compound could be taken once a week, in most cases.
If we’re talking orals, however, it’s every day, with meals.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ghostofbellstar wrote:
i think that thing about, dont play your aces early is brilliant
i think its dumb.
i understand the message, dont use before youre going to get the most out of it. but in that article he said if you used drugs to win state or nationals youll never be able to win a pro-card. bullshit. i bet [/quote] Oh, but do you know? Fairly few people get pro-cards… And a whole damn lot of people start juicing very early (a whole bunch of which never even make it to a point where they look like they lift). Hmmm. Maybe there are other factors involved here… What could it be… [quote] every single person who ever got their pro card was using AAS early as shit and definately every Olympia winner matter of fact i bet most of them started as teens.
[/quote] Olympia winners don’t need steroids to blow past their peers in their early years. Quite a bunch of them probably started using gear early, but let’s face it: They quite simply are better suited for this shit than we are, and if you think that Coleman was the biggest/almost-biggest guy around because he used the most gear… Well… No. [quote]
i dont understand how your final potential changes regardless of what stage you use steroids at. if you can make it the pro ranks at all youll just get there faster using steroids earlier.[/quote]
Have fun being one of those guys who need 3+ grams of test(not even counting the other stuff) a week to weigh 250-260 in the off-season.
Dunno about you, but I’d consider that awfully embarrassing… And quite frankly entirely unnecessary.
[quote]John Q. Adequate wrote:
When? Well, if they are fast acting and water based, you should take them every other day. If they are fast acting and oil based, every 3-4 days is fine. But a longer acting oild based compound could be taken once a week, in most cases.
If we’re talking orals, however, it’s every day, with meals.[/quote]
Stop speaking now.
Every reccomendation you made is inaccurate.
Either do some actual research or be quiet about something you aren’t qualified to give advice on.
[quote]Invictica wrote:
Just gonna play devil’s advocate here.
What if you are knowledgeble about diet, training, recovery, and PCT. However, you were physically under developed (have not reached your genetic potential)
Would you still warrant the use of anabolics?
I mean, why spend 5 years attaining a goal naturally, when you can do the exact same thing in 3 with anabolics?(this is a gross over simplification but its an example). If your goal is just to look good and you are not competing in any tested federations, what’s the harm? (this is assuming you are knowledgable about the above mentioned).
Discuss[/quote]
First of all I’d like you to find ONE PERSON who has EVER reached his genetic potential. That is an outdated term that has little merit in this type of discussion.
Second if a person’s diet and training are what they should be why is the person still underdeveloped? The answer is usally because they do not have enough time spent lifting weights.
Third (and the most important IMO) if someone starts using steroids before they know how to make gains naturally there is a good chance that when the person comes off they wont know how to continue to make gains. That will lead to either, continually cycling to make progress (not a great idea) or doing 1-2 cycles per year but barely keeping any of the gains, making the cycles pointless. I think this is what Tate is alluding to when he mentions the “ace card” thing.
Many people first think of the health risks when considering whether or not to use AAS. In men, who are otherwise healthy, there are very few risks in doing a short cycle at a commonly accepted dose. A consideration that is just as important as the health risk is whether the person is ready to get the most out of using AAS. Definitions of acceptable results will be different across the board, but that is the one of biggest factors in the decision making.
Ego clouds shit up real good when you’re young. The number of people making a living as strength athletes or pro bb’s is real small and I can almost guarantee it ain’t going to be you, steroids or not. I disagree with most of the boards opinion on steroids and there importance to pro bb.
Yeah, you need genes that 99% of the population don’t have…but I remember what the pro’s looked like when Mcmahon started his pro bb federation and drug tested…and they looked NOTHING like they did previously…except Strydom who musta been the first guy with the clear and the cream.
I used from 17-20. I didn’t suffer from any physical side effects except atrophied nuts…but I knew people who started at 15 and probably fucked away a couple of inches of height. I was a bigger AH when I was younger then I am now, and I think much of that was ego compounded by the pretty insidious psychological effects of steroids…
What I mean by that is in my experience the aggression from steroids isn’t anything near immediate so you don’t really notice it until you fuck up good… Anyhow, this is back in the late 80’s and things were real different then. Steroids were almost quasi legal yet about the best info out there was Duchaine’s Underground Steroid Handbook…
Everyone read it, yet the only thing most people took away from it was “the more you take, the bigger you get.” Despite that, I look at some of the cycles that the pro’s supposedly have used and it’s more in 2 months then I took in a year.
As I’ve grown older, I’ve come to realize just how tight the general population’s AH puckers up at the word steroids. It’s looked down upon in a way I never understood when I was younger. I read how stupid some of you younger guys sound talking about steroids…and I can tell it’s just a passing thing for you.
I ain’t going to even stretch the truth…fact is, you will make faster larger gains with steroids then without…at any age…but there is no way that the legal and social risk is worth it…and this home brewing shit is nuts…there is no fucking way I would give an underground lab a chance to steal my money or fuck up my health.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ghostofbellstar wrote:
i think that thing about, dont play your aces early is brilliant
i think its dumb.
i understand the message, dont use before youre going to get the most out of it. but in that article he said if you used drugs to win state or nationals youll never be able to win a pro-card. bullshit. i bet Oh, but do you know? Fairly few people get pro-cards… And a whole damn lot of people start juicing very early (a whole bunch of which never even make it to a point where they look like they lift). Hmmm. Maybe there are other factors involved here… What could it be… every single person who ever got their pro card was using AAS early as shit and definately every Olympia winner matter of fact i bet most of them started as teens.
Olympia winners don’t need steroids to blow past their peers in their early years. Quite a bunch of them probably started using gear early, but let’s face it: They quite simply are better suited for this shit than we are, and if you think that Coleman was the biggest/almost-biggest guy around because he used the most gear… Well… No.
i dont understand how your final potential changes regardless of what stage you use steroids at. if you can make it the pro ranks at all youll just get there faster using steroids earlier.
Have fun being one of those guys who need 3+ grams of test(not even counting the other stuff) a week to weigh 250-260 in the off-season.
Dunno about you, but I’d consider that awfully embarrassing… And quite frankly entirely unnecessary.
[/quote]
yeah, show me some BBers before they started using. everyone always says “well BBers are from another planet and have the best genetics, blah blah.” ok, so show me. cause the only picture ive ever seen of any bodybuilder in decent shape was while they were drugged.
show me anyone who won Nationals drug-free against drugged competition.
because according to Dave Tate, if you need juice to win Nationals you cant win anything higher. …unless youre a bodybuilder with the best genetics in the world right…even though 90% of them used drugs before anyone else.
the same guy saying “if you want to be where someone is, do what they did” EliteFTS.com -Who You Listen To - YouTube is telling us we shouldnt do what the people we want to look like did. makes a lot of sense. if ill take anything from Tate its gonna be not listening to the “so called internet gurus”
i dont use steroids right now, i used PHs once, but im not going to wait til i win a National level show to start either, thats plain retarded.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
yeah, show me some BBers before they started using. everyone always says “well BBers are from another planet and have the best genetics, blah blah.” ok, so show me. cause the only picture ive ever seen of any bodybuilder in decent shape was while they were drugged.
show me anyone who won Nationals drug-free against drugged competition.
because according to Dave Tate, if you need juice to win Nationals you cant win anything higher. …unless youre a bodybuilder with the best genetics in the world right…even though 90% of them used drugs before anyone else.
the same guy saying “if you want to be where someone is, do what they did” EliteFTS.com -Who You Listen To - YouTube is telling us we shouldnt do what the people we want to look like did. makes a lot of sense. if ill take anything from Tate its gonna be not listening to the “so called internet gurus” that includes
i dont use steroids right now, i used PHs once, but im not going to wait til i win a National level show to start either, thats plain retarded.
[/quote]
Have you seen Brandon Curry’s old thread? He had a few pics up when he was a natural and he was very impressive. Then he starting using and turned pro in no time, surpassing all the 30+ year old guys that have been in the circuit for a decade plus.
If you look up Gifted! you can look at his avatar as a natty, crazy.
Kai Greene is another example I can think of off the top of my head. He used to compete in the NGA’s a natural federation and still looked insane. And what do you know he’s a top pro these days
when i first came to this site he still posted, he had an avatar of him in a pool. when i first came to this site i thought everyone was over 200 pounds w/ abs and i thought the people who posted in BBing were actualy BBers. actually, even just 2 years ago there were a lot more.
