The OP said he was “thinking” of going equipped and while he is unsure then all lifters raw or otherwise are allowed to give their opinions. Regardless of where you stand on the raw v geared debate which will never be resolved, surely we can all agree that powerlifting has become a joke. When the bench press world record is higher than the deadlift record you know something has gone seriously wrong and what with all the “questionable” lifts being passed, and the countless federations where every competitor is a champion the sport has zero credibility. The increases seen in the bench for example (over 200lbs in just a few years) cannot continue at this pace. Eventually equipment will reach its “ceiling” and then the records will go back to rising a few pounds each generation. As a lover and follower of the sport from the 70’s, I say to the OP if you’re going to use suits then good luck to you, but I still think it’s a shame.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
I answered the OP straight up as to when in his lifting career he should start lifting in gear, never.
Honestly, put it off as long as you can. Unless your raw numbers have gotten to where you feel that gear could bring you to elite level, then keep lifting raw. Otherwise, there’s NO point whatsoever. All that has happened with the OP is that he has gotten stronger, thus progress begins to come slower and slower than before and for some reason he thinks he’s approaching a point where he will no longer make progress lifting raw. This isn’t true. Getting into lifting in gear too soon will seriously stall your progress and there’s just no reason for it.
The way I see it is that all the raw training, competing, etc. that you do will be nothing but benefical for any geared lifting you end up doing, but once you jump into lifting in gear then your raw numbers will inevitably take a hit or their progress will halt, at the very least. It’s just pointless to get into lifting equipped unless you’re approaching elite level. It’ll compromise the amount of progress you make lifting raw, which really is the worst thing you can do if you’re thinking long term about your numbers in gear.
OP, unless your total is elite, no one cares about it but you. Lifting in gear can hurt your raw progress, so do you honestly see a point in lifting in gear right now? At least get to a point where your raw numbers turn some heads before you drop a bunch of cash and spend a ton of time learning how to effectively lift in gear when that time could be better spent increasing straight up strength. [/quote]
I think time is better spent learning the skills of his sport so later on in his lifting career ALL he needs to worry about is getting stronger. At this stage, there’s a lot of leeway with training. If he waits until he’s an elite lifter, there will be very little and he’ll have to re-learn how to train in order to use it. In terms of bang-for-buck, now is a much better time than when he’s an elite lifter. If you cannot concede that it will take less time now and give him a much better idea of what he needs to train to use equipment well, then I’d argue you don’t have the experience necessary to give good advice.
I’ve seen plenty of good raw lifters who just can’t adjust to equipment; I’m just trying to save the OP the trouble.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
Getting into lifting in gear too soon will seriously stall your progress and there’s just no reason for it.
It’s just pointless to get into lifting equipped unless you’re approaching elite level. It’ll compromise the amount of progress you make lifting raw, which really is the worst thing you can do if you’re thinking long term about your numbers in gear.
[/quote]
Very curious on what basis you make this claim. I am so far from elite that it is laughable but have actually found that using gear helps my raw numbers because it seems to help me break through plateaus and trains my CNS to handle heavier weights. I also have no problem going back and forth between geared and raw training/competing.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
Regardless of where you stand on the raw v geared debate which will never be resolved, surely we can all agree that powerlifting has become a joke.[/quote]
Yes, I’m sure we can all agree with that.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
Getting into lifting in gear too soon will seriously stall your progress and there’s just no reason for it.
It’s just pointless to get into lifting equipped unless you’re approaching elite level. It’ll compromise the amount of progress you make lifting raw, which really is the worst thing you can do if you’re thinking long term about your numbers in gear.
[/quote]
Very curious on what basis you make this claim. I am so far from elite that it is laughable but have actually found that using gear helps my raw numbers because it seems to help me break through plateaus and trains my CNS to handle heavier weights. I also have no problem going back and forth between geared and raw training/competing. [/quote]
Agreed. I was about to ask UrbanSavage to explain how he came to this conclusion as well.
I wonder if he’s ever actually used gear?
To everyone who actually answered my question and provided solid input, thank you. Particularly, ouroborus, smokotime, and Russaldo. Your input was greatly appreciated.
UrbanSavage, I didn’t start considering lifting equipped because my raw numbers have slowed down. I considered equipped when I STARTED lifting, but decided to wait awhile, get a few meets under my belt raw, and see how I performed. Now I feel like I have a decent handle on the raw game, my question was whether I should start LEARNING to use gear now (because I know it takes a long time and I figured an early start would be a good idea) or if it’s better to wait it out longer. “Never” is not constructive input, and I could frankly give a rat’s arse about what your opinion on the sport is.
[quote]animus wrote:
All the same, I’m pretty certain I’ll qualify for nationals in 2011 and am hoping for a 400lb squat by the end of the year (at a bodyweight of 148).[/quote]
If you’re going to be able to qualify for USAPL Nationals, you are more than ready to start learning how to use gear. Learning how to use gear, and particularly bench shirts, can take a long time.
For instance, it took me 3-4 years to put about 100 pounds on my shirted bench, using the same bench shirt. About half of that was raw strength increases, and the other half was getting better at the bench shirt and it fitting me tighter due to increased body weight. I’m now at the point where I get about 135 pounds out of a single ply Titan Katana. There’s no way I would have gotten there without spending a lot of time in various shirts and training to maximize my shirted bench. And, until you start wearing a shirt (or other gear) you probably won’t be able to identify what YOU (as opposed to others) need to do to maximize your equipped lifts. There’s no reason not to start learning how to use some of the more basic gear now (i.e. I wouldn’t jump straight into using the top of the line bench shirts or suits). It isn’t as though you’re going to completely stop training raw.
[quote]burt128 wrote:
For instance, it took me 3-4 years to put about 100 pounds on my shirted bench, using the same bench shirt. [/quote]
Really, wow. I have a Katana also- which was my first shirt btw, and after about 4 or 5 times in the shirt doing board presses I had it down. I guess the groove of the shirt was more natural for me or something? I’m Certainly no expert but was getting 75# or so over raw numbers. Plenty enough to feel comfortable to compete but the Katanas can be nasty…
[quote]burt128 wrote:About half of that was raw strength increases, and the other half was getting better at the bench shirt and it fitting me tighter due to increased body weight.
[/quote]
Yep, funny how when you play with heavy weights regardless of being raw or geared up we get stronger…
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]burt128 wrote:
For instance, it took me 3-4 years to put about 100 pounds on my shirted bench, using the same bench shirt. [/quote]
Really, wow. I have a Katana also- which was my first shirt btw, and after about 4 or 5 times in the shirt doing board presses I had it down. I guess the groove of the shirt was more natural for me or something? I’m Certainly no expert but was getting 75# or so over raw numbers. Plenty enough to feel comfortable to compete but the Katanas can be nasty…
[quote]burt128 wrote:About half of that was raw strength increases, and the other half was getting better at the bench shirt and it fitting me tighter due to increased body weight.
[/quote]
Yep, funny how when you play with heavy weights regardless of being raw or geared up we get stronger…
[/quote]
I have a bit of a love hate relationship with shirts and they aren’t natural for me at all. My first was a Fury and I had to return it for a larger size. I couldn’t lock out what I needed to touch with. My current is an F6 and I continue to get better and better with it tweaking it to suit me. I have a super katana sitting in my garage (gym) that I’ve had on a few times and it was too much for me. The energy it took to control it was too much at the time. I may have the strength/confidence to get more out of it now. Mind you, I’m more of a deadlifter than a bencher.
That’s kind of why gear takes a while depending on your strengths and weaknesses. I get a lot more out of my stuff than when I first put it on because I know how to jack it to work well for me. It was trial and error.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
.[/quote]
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]burt128 wrote:
For instance, it took me 3-4 years to put about 100 pounds on my shirted bench, using the same bench shirt. [/quote]
Really, wow. I have a Katana also- which was my first shirt btw, and after about 4 or 5 times in the shirt doing board presses I had it down. I guess the groove of the shirt was more natural for me or something? I’m Certainly no expert but was getting 75# or so over raw numbers. Plenty enough to feel comfortable to compete but the Katanas can be nasty…[/quote]
I got comfortable with the shirt pretty quickly, but going from getting 50-75 pounds out of it to getting 100+ out of a first generation Fury took some time. It’s one thing to be able to use the shirt to get a weight to touch that you can press, it is something else entirely to learn how to tweak it and your training to maximize what kind of carryover you can get. That’s why I suggested it makes sense to get going with the shirt (and other gear) sooner rather than later for the OP – if he’s going to be competing at Nationals there’s no reason not to start getting as good as he can at the gear now.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
Getting into lifting in gear too soon will seriously stall your progress and there’s just no reason for it.
It’s just pointless to get into lifting equipped unless you’re approaching elite level. It’ll compromise the amount of progress you make lifting raw, which really is the worst thing you can do if you’re thinking long term about your numbers in gear.
[/quote]
Very curious on what basis you make this claim. I am so far from elite that it is laughable but have actually found that using gear helps my raw numbers because it seems to help me break through plateaus and trains my CNS to handle heavier weights. I also have no problem going back and forth between geared and raw training/competing. [/quote]
Agreed. I was about to ask UrbanSavage to explain how he came to this conclusion as well.
I wonder if he’s ever actually used gear?[/quote]
Both of your comments are laughable. There’s no burden on me to prove that lifting in gear will hurt your raw numbers and progress, it’s the consensus. Find me a valid source that claims devoting the majority of your training to lifting in gear will help your raw numbers. The primary muscles involved aren’t the same, the technique isn’t the same and the assistance exercises certainly aren’t the same, so tell me how it will help your raw lifting? My point is that, so early on in your lifting, having your raw numbers progress slow down will end up hurting you in the long run. Can you refute this claim?
The burden to prove that lifting in gear won’t hurt your raw lifting is on those who support lifting in gear. There’s no logic to support lifting in gear will help your raw training, and if it doesn’t help then dedicating so much time to lifting in gear this early WILL hurt you in the long run.
smokotime, I won’t concede that he has more leeway in his training now and thus it’s a better time for him to train in gear, in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on. It would be far better for him to get stronger now, find out everything that works for him and make as much natural progress in strength as he can before he starts changing things and altering his training that heavily.
I’m not opposed to gear at all and I don’t hate gear or something, but it’s a mistake to devote so much training to it now. If YOU won’t concede that training in gear now and changing training methods to increase geared numbers as opposed to raw numbers now is a mistake, I’d say you’re biased or something else is preventing you from giving advice on the issue.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
[quote]OBoile wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
Getting into lifting in gear too soon will seriously stall your progress and there’s just no reason for it.
It’s just pointless to get into lifting equipped unless you’re approaching elite level. It’ll compromise the amount of progress you make lifting raw, which really is the worst thing you can do if you’re thinking long term about your numbers in gear.
[/quote]
Very curious on what basis you make this claim. I am so far from elite that it is laughable but have actually found that using gear helps my raw numbers because it seems to help me break through plateaus and trains my CNS to handle heavier weights. I also have no problem going back and forth between geared and raw training/competing. [/quote]
Agreed. I was about to ask UrbanSavage to explain how he came to this conclusion as well.
I wonder if he’s ever actually used gear?[/quote]
Both of your comments are laughable. There’s no burden on me to prove that lifting in gear will hurt your raw numbers and progress, it’s the consensus. Find me a valid source that claims devoting the majority of your training to lifting in gear will help your raw numbers. The primary muscles involved aren’t the same, the technique isn’t the same and the assistance exercises certainly aren’t the same, so tell me how it will help your raw lifting? My point is that, so early on in your lifting, having your raw numbers progress slow down will end up hurting you in the long run. Can you refute this claim?
The burden to prove that lifting in gear won’t hurt your raw lifting is on those who support lifting in gear. There’s no logic to support lifting in gear will help your raw training, and if it doesn’t help then dedicating so much time to lifting in gear this early WILL hurt you in the long run.
smokotime, I won’t concede that he has more leeway in his training now and thus it’s a better time for him to train in gear, in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on. It would be far better for him to get stronger now, find out everything that works for him and make as much natural progress in strength as he can before he starts changing things and altering his training that heavily.
I’m not opposed to gear at all and I don’t hate gear or something, but it’s a mistake to devote so much training to it now. If YOU won’t concede that training in gear now and changing training methods to increase geared numbers as opposed to raw numbers now is a mistake, I’d say you’re biased or something else is preventing you from giving advice on the issue. [/quote]
As the one making the claim that training in gear will negatively affect raw lifts, it’s incumbent upon you to prove the statement. You are the one making that claim aren’t you? What consensus is it? Is it anecdotal or quantifiable? The two people you find laughable are merely reporting based on their own personal experience; not a nebulous consensus. They don’t require a study. They have lived it. You are coming across as a bit histrionic.
Who gives a shit either way, if you’re going to be a polevaulter buy a pole, jump with a pole, practice with your pole, if you are going to be an equipped lifter by gear, use gear and practice with your gear. I am super impressed with guys getting 600-700 lbs carryover out of all their gear, I’m also impressed watching guys hit raw 2000+ totals. it’s like NASCAR and Drag Racing, they’re both car races we just expect different things when we watch them (although I watch neither but you get the point.) Like anything you do practice makes perfect (ish) so practice the way you play.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
smokotime, I won’t concede that he has more leeway in his training now and thus it’s a better time for him to train in gear, in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on. It would be far better for him to get stronger now, find out everything that works for him and make as much natural progress in strength as he can before he starts changing things and altering his training that heavily.
I’m not opposed to gear at all and I don’t hate gear or something, but it’s a mistake to devote so much training to it now. If YOU won’t concede that training in gear now and changing training methods to increase geared numbers as opposed to raw numbers now is a mistake, I’d say you’re biased or something else is preventing you from giving advice on the issue. [/quote]
An equipped lift is different to a raw lift. To quote you,[quote]in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on.[/quote]. Now is a good time to start building a base of both raw strength and equipped skills. This is something that he can use for the rest of his lifting career. You will note that I told him not to change his training drastically, and to be conseervative and patient. He will continue getting stronger during this time so long as he is sensible.
If, however, he were to follow your advice then he would wait until he was close to elite, then in all likelyhood he would not keep getting stronger while learning the equipment. I am yet to meet anyone elite raw who didn’t have their raw lifts go backwards and get frustrated when they finally tried to learn equipment.
Meanwhile, I have trained and trained with dozens of beginners and intermediates without having a single one get weaker in either.
I am not saying go full gear-whore. I’m presenting a rational and conservative viewpoint and I’m doing my best to back it up. My only bias is trying to save people some trouble. My mediocre lifts and my fed are open to anyone who can be bothered to click on my hub. I’ve got nothing to hide, no secret agenda to push.
It comes down to this: if you honestly believe that at some stage he’ll be competing in equipment, he can invest in it now or down the track. If he does it now, he doesn’t get as strong raw as quickly. If he does it later, he runs the risk of getting weaker and missing out on years of experience in equipment. In the long run, an extra 6 months or even a year means nothing so long as you keep improving.
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
[quote]OBoile wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
Getting into lifting in gear too soon will seriously stall your progress and there’s just no reason for it.
It’s just pointless to get into lifting equipped unless you’re approaching elite level. It’ll compromise the amount of progress you make lifting raw, which really is the worst thing you can do if you’re thinking long term about your numbers in gear.
[/quote]
Very curious on what basis you make this claim. I am so far from elite that it is laughable but have actually found that using gear helps my raw numbers because it seems to help me break through plateaus and trains my CNS to handle heavier weights. I also have no problem going back and forth between geared and raw training/competing. [/quote]
Agreed. I was about to ask UrbanSavage to explain how he came to this conclusion as well.
I wonder if he’s ever actually used gear?[/quote]
Both of your comments are laughable. There’s no burden on me to prove that lifting in gear will hurt your raw numbers and progress, it’s the consensus. Find me a valid source that claims devoting the majority of your training to lifting in gear will help your raw numbers. The primary muscles involved aren’t the same, the technique isn’t the same and the assistance exercises certainly aren’t the same, so tell me how it will help your raw lifting? My point is that, so early on in your lifting, having your raw numbers progress slow down will end up hurting you in the long run. Can you refute this claim?
The burden to prove that lifting in gear won’t hurt your raw lifting is on those who support lifting in gear. There’s no logic to support lifting in gear will help your raw training, and if it doesn’t help then dedicating so much time to lifting in gear this early WILL hurt you in the long run.
smokotime, I won’t concede that he has more leeway in his training now and thus it’s a better time for him to train in gear, in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on. It would be far better for him to get stronger now, find out everything that works for him and make as much natural progress in strength as he can before he starts changing things and altering his training that heavily.
I’m not opposed to gear at all and I don’t hate gear or something, but it’s a mistake to devote so much training to it now. If YOU won’t concede that training in gear now and changing training methods to increase geared numbers as opposed to raw numbers now is a mistake, I’d say you’re biased or something else is preventing you from giving advice on the issue. [/quote]
As the one making the claim that training in gear will negatively affect raw lifts, it’s incumbent upon you to prove the statement. You are the one making that claim aren’t you? What consensus is it? Is it anecdotal or quantifiable? The two people you find laughable are merely reporting based on their own personal experience; not a nebulous consensus. They don’t require a study. They have lived it. You are coming across as a bit histrionic.[/quote]
Nice try. To improve in geared lifting, you need to devote a large chunk of your training to that process. That is time that would have been used to improve or maintain raw numbers. Despite any argument to the contrary, geared lifting and raw lifting are two extremely different things and have to be treated as such.
I’m not saying that training in gear magically hurts your raw numbers, and it’s pretty silly of you to try and claim that’s the point I was making. I only made the factual statement that to maintain or improve raw numbers, you have to spend time training that way. You can’t have it both ways. Training in gear isn’t what will hurt your raw training, the time away from lifting raw is what will. In fact, it’s those supporting gear in this thread who have made the claim that spending all your time training for geared lifting will not only NOT hurt your raw lifting, it will actually improve your raw numbers.
“They don’t require a study. They have lived it.” You can’t be serious with this. I’m not the one making some outrageous claim, I’m merely stating the facts that geared lifters don’t want to hear.
[quote]smokotime wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
smokotime, I won’t concede that he has more leeway in his training now and thus it’s a better time for him to train in gear, in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on. It would be far better for him to get stronger now, find out everything that works for him and make as much natural progress in strength as he can before he starts changing things and altering his training that heavily.
I’m not opposed to gear at all and I don’t hate gear or something, but it’s a mistake to devote so much training to it now. If YOU won’t concede that training in gear now and changing training methods to increase geared numbers as opposed to raw numbers now is a mistake, I’d say you’re biased or something else is preventing you from giving advice on the issue. [/quote]
An equipped lift is different to a raw lift. To quote you,[quote]in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on.[/quote]. Now is a good time to start building a base of both raw strength and equipped skills. This is something that he can use for the rest of his lifting career. You will note that I told him not to change his training drastically, and to be conseervative and patient. He will continue getting stronger during this time so long as he is sensible.
If, however, he were to follow your advice then he would wait until he was close to elite, then in all likelyhood he would not keep getting stronger while learning the equipment. I am yet to meet anyone elite raw who didn’t have their raw lifts go backwards and get frustrated when they finally tried to learn equipment.
Meanwhile, I have trained and trained with dozens of beginners and intermediates without having a single one get weaker in either.
I am not saying go full gear-whore. I’m presenting a rational and conservative viewpoint and I’m doing my best to back it up. My only bias is trying to save people some trouble. My mediocre lifts and my fed are open to anyone who can be bothered to click on my hub. I’ve got nothing to hide, no secret agenda to push.
It comes down to this: if you honestly believe that at some stage he’ll be competing in equipment, he can invest in it now or down the track. If he does it now, he doesn’t get as strong raw as quickly. If he does it later, he runs the risk of getting weaker and missing out on years of experience in equipment. In the long run, an extra 6 months or even a year means nothing so long as you keep improving.[/quote]
I don’t see any issue with getting some gear and training in it from time to time to get technique down. I’m just saying that if he changes his entire emphasis to lifting in gear now, his raw training will take a hit and he’ll be spending a ton of time working the top end of the bench and squat that are great for gear but he’ll have huge imbalances lifting raw.
I’m honestly not making this up to support my argument, I’ve NEVER heard of a geared lifter who was worth anything whose raw numbers didn’t suffer significantly as a result. If anyone could provide a source for someone primarily known for lifting in gear who can support what’s being said in this thread, I’d appreciate it.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
I don’t see any issue with getting some gear and training in it from time to time to get technique down. I’m just saying that if he changes his entire emphasis to lifting in gear now, his raw training will take a hit and he’ll be spending a ton of time working the top end of the bench and squat that are great for gear but he’ll have huge imbalances lifting raw.
I’m honestly not making this up to support my argument, I’ve NEVER heard of a geared lifter who was worth anything whose raw numbers didn’t suffer significantly as a result. If anyone could provide a source for someone primarily known for lifting in gear who can support what’s being said in this thread, I’d appreciate it. [/quote]
No-one saying to train entirely for equipment. Just that he should get into some equipment. Sensible people don’t start neglecting all of their training to get some short term ego boost. Or at least not for long. Also, he’s in the USAPL so he won’t be able to compete in any extreme equipment.
Naturally, you will not hear of many extremely good raw lifters becoming great equipped lifters without their performance suffering. That would have to do with different timing, technique and muscular demands they face, whereas before they’ve been focussed entirely on one thing. If you wore equipment all the time, warm-up to showers, then you’d probably have the same problem but reversed. As it is, doing both isn’t going to make you shit raw. Stupid training might, but that’s the same whether you’ve got equipment or not. Getting stronger (not just better technically) in equipment will always have some carryover to raw, whereas the opposite is not true.
And finally for your request, Andrey Belyaev was known for monstrous totals in single ply equipment, and he did 2028lbs easy as you like, raw.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
smokotime, I won’t concede that he has more leeway in his training now and thus it’s a better time for him to train in gear, in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on. It would be far better for him to get stronger now, find out everything that works for him and make as much natural progress in strength as he can before he starts changing things and altering his training that heavily.
I’m not opposed to gear at all and I don’t hate gear or something, but it’s a mistake to devote so much training to it now. If YOU won’t concede that training in gear now and changing training methods to increase geared numbers as opposed to raw numbers now is a mistake, I’d say you’re biased or something else is preventing you from giving advice on the issue. [/quote]
An equipped lift is different to a raw lift. To quote you,[quote]in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on.[/quote]. Now is a good time to start building a base of both raw strength and equipped skills. This is something that he can use for the rest of his lifting career. You will note that I told him not to change his training drastically, and to be conseervative and patient. He will continue getting stronger during this time so long as he is sensible.
If, however, he were to follow your advice then he would wait until he was close to elite, then in all likelyhood he would not keep getting stronger while learning the equipment. I am yet to meet anyone elite raw who didn’t have their raw lifts go backwards and get frustrated when they finally tried to learn equipment.
Meanwhile, I have trained and trained with dozens of beginners and intermediates without having a single one get weaker in either.
I am not saying go full gear-whore. I’m presenting a rational and conservative viewpoint and I’m doing my best to back it up. My only bias is trying to save people some trouble. My mediocre lifts and my fed are open to anyone who can be bothered to click on my hub. I’ve got nothing to hide, no secret agenda to push.
It comes down to this: if you honestly believe that at some stage he’ll be competing in equipment, he can invest in it now or down the track. If he does it now, he doesn’t get as strong raw as quickly. If he does it later, he runs the risk of getting weaker and missing out on years of experience in equipment. In the long run, an extra 6 months or even a year means nothing so long as you keep improving.[/quote]
I don’t see any issue with getting some gear and training in it from time to time to get technique down. I’m just saying that if he changes his entire emphasis to lifting in gear now, his raw training will take a hit and he’ll be spending a ton of time working the top end of the bench and squat that are great for gear but he’ll have huge imbalances lifting raw.
I’m honestly not making this up to support my argument, I’ve NEVER heard of a geared lifter who was worth anything whose raw numbers didn’t suffer significantly as a result. If anyone could provide a source for someone primarily known for lifting in gear who can support what’s being said in this thread, I’d appreciate it. [/quote]
The thing about GEARED lifters… is you know, they lift… IN GEAR. Most couldn’t give a shit what their raw lifts are if they compete in geared competitions.
As for lifters who are worth anything… Mark Bell benched 854 @ 275 in competition. Today in training, he did 495 for 5 reps and 545 for 3 reps off a 3 board, raw.
There’s your example.
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
[quote]OBoile wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
Getting into lifting in gear too soon will seriously stall your progress and there’s just no reason for it.
It’s just pointless to get into lifting equipped unless you’re approaching elite level. It’ll compromise the amount of progress you make lifting raw, which really is the worst thing you can do if you’re thinking long term about your numbers in gear.
[/quote]
Very curious on what basis you make this claim. I am so far from elite that it is laughable but have actually found that using gear helps my raw numbers because it seems to help me break through plateaus and trains my CNS to handle heavier weights. I also have no problem going back and forth between geared and raw training/competing. [/quote]
Agreed. I was about to ask UrbanSavage to explain how he came to this conclusion as well.
I wonder if he’s ever actually used gear?[/quote]
A bunch of straw man arguments and other gibberish [/quote]
I take it from your lack of an answer to my question that you have not used gear. I’m also not sure where anyone proposed the idea of lifting in gear exclusively. It seems to me that you had to invent this notion in order for your argument to have any leg to stand on.